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trail fairy
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
PIKE Experts roll right up!

So I had a ride on a PIKE 454 Uturn yesterday nice fork and I'm looking at putting one on my Spot, I currently run an AM1 which is awesome but lacks a 20mm and A2C a little high me thinks, want a little better balance.

Anyways pos chamber started at 110 psi neg chambr 90psi

Fork was stiff but not supple esspecially compared to AM
Stroke was smooth though.

Reduced POS chamber by 10psi and improvd slightly!

I no my AM1 inside and out so I don't think the fork is worse just not setup as well as my AM1.

Thoughts as to what PSI settings in POS or Neg, Ive read on MTBR differing opinons on wether POS and NEG should be same or Neg should be 20% more than POS and v vs sa.

Cheers for input I want to be sure Im doing the right thing before plopping down my $$ as AM is not bad just not 100% optimal all the time I think its possible to get the same suppleness on small stuff and have the 20mm stiffness benefits and also the balance though I don't want to go to steep in HA so I wouldn't go less the PIKES A2C for my trail riding fix.:D
 

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No, that's not phonetic
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The positive and negative chambers are basically opposing springs pushing on each other. If the pos chamber has a higher pressure than the neg, the fork will extend fully and top out with some force. If you bring the negative pressure up to match the pos, the fork will extend fully and top out softly. If you add even more negative pressure, you are going to start compressing the pos chamber, and thus shrink the fork's length. The negative chamber cannot really be set higher than the positive (at least in my dual air forks) because the added negative pressure will cause the positive chamber to become compressed, which in turn increases the pressure in the pos to match the neg. So the pos and neg chambers equalize at full extension. Not sure if the u-turn air is much different than this.

I weigh 180# and run about 130psi in the pos and negative. Barny is 130# and she runs about 85psi pos and neg.

The fork can really ride poorly if the oil levels are not set correctly. It can experience a sort of hydraulic lock if there is too much oil in any chamber. Also, try the fork with the compression knob turned full-fast (counter-clockwise).
 

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my experience

trailadvent said:
PIKE Experts roll right up!

So I had a ride on a PIKE 454 Uturn yesterday nice fork and I'm looking at putting one on my Spot, I currently run an AM1 which is awesome but lacks a 20mm and A2C a little high me thinks, want a little better balance.

Anyways pos chamber started at 110 psi neg chambr 90psi

Fork was stiff but not supple esspecially compared to AM
Stroke was smooth though.

Reduced POS chamber by 10psi and improvd slightly!

I no my AM1 inside and out so I don't think the fork is worse just not setup as well as my AM1.

Thoughts as to what PSI settings in POS or Neg, Ive read on MTBR differing opinons on wether POS and NEG should be same or Neg should be 20% more than POS and v vs sa.

Cheers for input I want to be sure Im doing the right thing before plopping down my $$ as AM is not bad just not 100% optimal all the time I think its possible to get the same suppleness on small stuff and have the 20mm stiffness benefits and also the balance though I don't want to go to steep in HA so I wouldn't go less the PIKES A2C for my trail riding fix.:D
I have the 454 U-turn air. I am 175 pounds, I have been changing the settings a lot lately, but I do like the 100-105 psi. range. I rarely ever run more negative than the positive chamber pressure for the same reasons Tscheezy mentioned. I run them equal. Also, if you have the lock lever all the way open, but you have the gold floodgate knob turned up more than half its adjustment range, you can start to get a little harshness at high speed, try the floodgate backed off and get your air pressures even and see how you like that. Running 60% of your body weight in pressure seems to be very close to spot on for me. You may not run the pressures I do, but get them closer to or right on equal as a starting point and adjust from there.
 

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trail fairy
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9,546 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Cheers T & DGC I will try that out tonight!:thumbsup:

I weigh 180# and run about 130psi in the pos and negative. Barny is 130# and she runs about 85psi pos and neg.
Im 210 with gear
Is a Fox shock pump accurate on the RS just another thought that popped into my head as T your settings are quite a bit higher for yr weight. than what I found on the fork with my pump gauge.
 

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Pike ut454, new to me what are all of the dials for?

I just installed the ut454 on my spot. Too many choices on that thing...Actually, I'm OK with the air/rebound. I ended up with the poplock by mistake- kinda dorky but seems to work. I like a plush fork but I don't like a fork that dives when braking. Running pos/neg air seems to be the ticket. Not too sure of what the make of the motion control/gate mix. Any thoughts on that? I'd like to find a basic setting a stay there or perhaps create a setting matrix for different types of riding:
x country, smooth./ rocky, steep/ect.
 

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I've got a Stiffee
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913 Posts
I just replaced my AM1 with a Pike 454 air u-turn on my Spot and am loving it. I weigh about 165 w/gear and am running 110psi in both chambers......I may reduce that a couple psi though as I'm not quite getting all the travel. The AM1 was too tall (130-150mm version) and I wasn't crazy about the ETA. The Pike is the perfect height for the Spot and the air version has really surprised me in how plush it feels. It doesn't quite have the small bump sensitivity of a coil Zoke but on bigger hits and at speed it feels excellent.
 

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carpe mañana
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7,307 Posts
If you 454 is fresh, then you have to give it at least 20 hours of solid riding for it to loosen up. It feels a bit harsh before. Also, the stroke of the Pike is very different from the stroke of the Zoke. It isn't worse, just different. If feels firmer, snappier, the zoke feels more cadillac'y.

Also, following up on Tscheezy's comment that you can't pump the negative higher than the positive, I just want to be sure that you understand correctly. If you pump up the positive first, then start pumping the negative, you can pump it up to a higher pressure readout than you had when you finished with the positive. However, since increasing the negative pressure with start to compress the fork, the effective pressure in the positive will now match the negative.

And as mentioned above, oil levels are very critical. You may also want to replace the semi-bath oil with one of higher viscosity, same goes for the air spring (although opinions on that one are divided).

_MK
 

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trail fairy
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9,546 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Cheers all great info I have made some changes as per T and these seemed to have improved the suppleness so have plonked down the $$ fork, new wheel buiild and will have a ticket to ride in the weekend so I will get to play with my own PIKE lol and test out all your suggestions, looking forward to getting it on the Spot.
Spot sorted.

Will miss my AM though shes a sexy beast, but I will have a Marz on RFX so not too bad I guess. the New 07 SL and RC2X look hot next big decision Air or coil, on such a big fork I always want coil but end up on air:D

180mm seems allot for the RFX
 

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trail fairy
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9,546 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
Well Ive plonked down the $$ and piked up my 454 PIKE Uturn with new DT 51.D rim DT 14 gauge spokes brass nipples and GOLD Hadley 20mm Hub BLING!

Ohh she looks hot and thats just the hub, Ive set 150psi in the pos and 145 in the neg mainly as when I tried to have the same pressure in pos and neg I did lose some travel so I let 5psi out of the neg and it returned to full travel, I like my rebound fast on my forks so its near full fast, and compression is middle setting till I work out what it does as lock out dosen't do it for me on this bike.

First ride impressions today are awesome jumping was a blast this thing is so stiff and stable I had grins till it hurt, BBB one of the other Horseman had some big air competion today and jumps Im usually a little cautious on, Im blitzed with howls and hoots, supplesness isn't quite up there with AM but of course it still needs the break in period but it was still very good. I out jumped BBB on this new leap of faith drop today some Im stoked near vertical drop was lots of fun.

I have to agree with the rest of the 5Spot experts here this is definitely the fork for the Spot, well balanced she carves like Electra (not carmen) and is so stable manuals are sweet and the bike just gets up and rolls forward fast, very stable on bridges and ladder runs we have some mini north shore stuff here and its just so confidence inspiring his fork tracks stright and true I hope this fork stays around to be a true calssic RS should not mess with this puppy and do what everyone else is doing adding more travel its a very competent fork and today was my first ride a good 3hr seesion though so its had a good test.

Now my Spot has really come out to play and just feels fantastic, I also threw on a 90mm 10 degree stem and this thing manuals like a dream now wheelies are fun again as before I felt it was hard to get the front end up unless really yanking on the bars, some spots Ive ridden with the vanilla feel like this planted to the ground but hard to lift the front end. Not with the PIKE she rocks.

So all in all very happy and if the Lyrik and Totem live up to or exceed this fork then Sram/RS have some very good forks coming in 07..

Cheers all the T homies for yr help Ill be following yr recs as time sets in.

Pics
 

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Well Biked
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Very nice! That bike looks like it's ready to kick some a$$. I'd like a Pike too at some point. I agree, it is a bit of work to get the front up, and the lower Vanilla might be helping this.

Got my Gravity Dropper yesterday, and very impressed with it!

Enjoy the ride. Looking more like the ultimate Homer build!;)
 

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trailadvent said:
Now my Spot has really come out to play and just feels fantastic, I also threw on a 90mm 10 degree stem and this thing manuals like a dream now wheelies are fun again as before I felt it was hard to get the front end up unless really yanking on the bars, some spots Ive ridden with the vanilla feel like this planted to the ground but hard to lift the front end. Not with the PIKE she rocks.
Niiiice. However I wonder if your Maxle is properly tightened given the quick-release levers position in the picture (there is a thread about adding a spacer to put it in the position of your choice, though dunno if you'd have tried that so soon).

The first time I mounted the wheel in my Pike, I couldn't figure out why there was a small bit of play on the axle. I was tightening the QR level like I would on a traditional wheel, not realizing the Maxle gets tightened (screwed in) while in the unlocked position and independently from the QR lever action. Once I tightened the Maxle independently, everything snugged up nicely, though I was stuck with the lever in a goofy orientation (again, a thread exists that suggests how to reposition). OTOH, maybe Rockshox changed the orientation of the threading to make it work as you'd expect.
 

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Pike Space thread

I did look but came up with the wrong hits
Do you have a link to the spacer thread. I'm having the same issues. I did re-assemble the qr but that gave me a 180 degree fix. It is better, but not spot-on.

Thanks

Martin
 

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trail fairy
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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
Niiiice. However I wonder if your Maxle is properly tightened given the quick-release levers position in the picture (there is a thread about adding a spacer to put it in the position of your choice, though dunno if you'd have tried that so soon).
I did have that problem when we first mounted the wheel the clamp was pointing forward and there was play at the wheel I remove the clamp form the housing and reversed it so it would cvalmp 180 degress from it origonla postion so it would wind in full then clamp, no play now either all good but I will check again tonight.

cheers
 

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ಠ_ಠ
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tscheezy said:
The positive and negative chambers are basically opposing springs pushing on each other. If the pos chamber has a higher pressure than the neg, the fork will extend fully and top out with some force. If you bring the negative pressure up to match the pos, the fork will extend fully and top out softly. If you add even more negative pressure, you are going to start compressing the pos chamber, and thus shrink the fork's length. The negative chamber cannot really be set higher than the positive (at least in my dual air forks) because the added negative pressure will cause the positive chamber to become compressed, which in turn increases the pressure in the pos to match the neg. So the pos and neg chambers equalize at full extension. Not sure if the u-turn air is much different than this.

I weigh 180# and run about 130psi in the pos and negative. Barny is 130# and she runs about 85psi pos and neg.

The fork can really ride poorly if the oil levels are not set correctly. It can experience a sort of hydraulic lock if there is too much oil in any chamber. Also, try the fork with the compression knob turned full-fast (counter-clockwise).
Tscheezy,

Do you have the Dual Air or U-Turn Air?

Just curious as the Air U-Turn takes a higher recommended PSI for some reason.
 

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Taking the Plunge

OK,

Taking the plunge on a Pike 454 - ordering it tomorrow. Had to sell spare bike to finance, but the '03 Z1, she's not so solid anymore!

So what is the best pump, I'm looking at a Topeak, Fox, and Buzzy's. I like the Topeak & Fox because they have the nifty folding feature which will make it easier to store in Cambelbak.

I'm sure I'll be posting lots of questions in the next few weeks, although after reading this thread & several others I feel pretty confident.

Looks like I may be in Moab last week in Sept, hope to join the crew for one ride. I'm sorta new to this whole forum thing, but I've had my spot since '03, so I guess its one of the originals!
 
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