[scepticshock]

I have been hearing a lot of good things about the Pike these days, and I think it would be very good for SO Cal riding. So I am getting ready for my first major upgrade and getting one. What are the pros and cons of air vs. coil? I have heard the cold is plusher but is maybe a little too linear? It seems like the air is more popular around here.

 

[Jdub]

I have been hearing a lot of good things about the Pike these days, and I think it would be very good for SO Cal riding. So I am getting ready for my first major upgrade and getting one. What are the pros and cons of air vs. coil? I have heard the cold is plusher but is maybe a little too linear? It seems like the air is more popular around here.

Speaking generally (not specifically about the Pike), the coils tend to be more compliant on small stuff. Air shocks main advantage (to me at least) is weight saved.

The other thing I consider an advantage of air is that you don't ever have to switch springs out, you can simply add/decrease air to set for your weight & style.

 

[cactuscorn]

i tell my custys that a air fork spring is infinately tuneable without cost. otherwise, what he said.

 

[tscheezy]

After owning both a coil and air Pike, I can unreservedly say I prefer the lighter weight, greater adjustability (you can change the slope [rate] of the spring rate curve as well as shift the curve up or down [preload or added sag]), and progressive stroke (plush initially but still resists bottoming) of the air better. Some may say the coil is plusher, but after owning both I can say this is absolutely, categorically not true of the Pike. In fact, the air can be set up much softer in the initial stroke than the coil can with the same ultimate bottoming resistance.

 

[cactuscorn]

wow! that pike is soundin better all the time. could i be goin back to my old nemesis? only the shadow knows.

 

[mtdbike]

If I had to replace my 05 Fox Talas R on my 5spot, it would have to be 06 Pike Air. The question to fellow Homers is the Air sprung quality similar to Foxes technology and reliability? Anyway I just blew a seal on the Fox (No zoophilia puns intended) after one year of abuse. Now it actually feels better than ever on some new fresh seals and oil.

 

[tscheezy]

I can't think of anyone who has switched from a Fox (any model) to a Pike (any model, or even Jaybo's RS Revelation) who did not prefer the Pike.

The technology in the damper is very different. I have never ridden a Fox Float fork I liked. I personally find them to be quite lacking. The Talas forks ride a lot nicer than the Floats (the 05s did anyway), but I would still take a RS, no question. You may want to consider a Revelation instead of the Pike as it uses the same damper and overall build aspects minus some weight and skips the 20mm thru-axle.

 

[scepticshock]

Thanks for all the feed back! I have been on Fox Vanillas for quite some time now and from the above comments I shouldn't be looking back if I go with a Pike air (which I think I will go with).

Just one more question. Is the Pop Lock a lock out switch? Do I want the model with the pop lock even if I rarely if ever lock out my fork?

 

[tscheezy]

I would not get the bar mounted poplock myself. Most people who got it decided they would rather have skipped the bar clutter, though a few dig it. You cannot just take the bar mounted remote off and adjust the fork manually if you do get the poplock model. The damper has an internal spring for lockout return and it will not stay put if you remove the remote. If you rarely would lock the fork out, skip the poplock.

 

[Robot Chicken]

I would not get the bar mounted poplock myself. Most people who got it decided they would rather have skipped the bar clutter, though a few dig it. You cannot just take the bar mounted remote off and adjust the fork manually if you do get the poplock model. The damper has an internal spring for lockout return and it will not stay put if you remove the remote. If you rarely would lock the fork out, skip the poplock.

Plus, it only takes .3 seconds to take your arm off the bars and switch the compression lockout switch open and closed. It takes less than half a turn and I did it without ever needing to look down.

Unless you are a racer, who needs every split second saved, there isn't much gain in the poplock.

edit: anyone know when those PUSH mods for the Pike will be coming out? I can't wait to try a shimmed rebound Pike, how can life get any better for a trail fork?

 

[scepticshock]

Thanks. Poplock skipped. More clutter. I'd rather save that space for the remote on the gravity dropper that I hope to get on next upgrade.
So, is it the 454 Air U-turn the model I want? There seem to be a lot of versions of this about.

 

[kosmo]

Thanks. Poplock skipped. More clutter. I'd rather save that space for the remote on the gravity dropper that I hope to get on next upgrade.
So, is it the 454 Air U-turn the model I want? There seem to be a lot of versions of this about.

I run 190, and am leaning towards the 426 version for the added beef of the steel steerer and less hollowed-out crown. Adds less than half a pound, I think.

Plus, how can you beat a fork named after one of the greatest street-rod engines every conceived?!

And no, the new ones aren't really Hemis. But they surely do still haul the mail!

 

[Jaybo]

My opinion also!

After owning both a coil and air Pike, I can unreservedly say I prefer the lighter weight, greater adjustability (you can change the slope [rate] of the spring rate curve as well as shift the curve up or down [preload or added sag]), and progressive stroke (plush initially but still resists bottoming) of the air better. Some may say the coil is plusher, but after owning both I can say this is absolutely, categorically not true of the Pike. In fact, the air can be set up much softer in the initial stroke than the coil can with the same ultimate bottoming resistance.

I've spent a long time on a Marzocchi and Fox coil shocks. Most of my time mountain biking has been spent on coil shocks with a stint on a SID 100 and a regular SID--in my weight watching days. I can honestly say the Revelation I'm hammering now is plusher than any fork I have ever owned. It is unbelievable. The cool thing is you can mess with air pressures to dial in the ride. Just like Tscheesy said in his more technical terms. Plus, you lose weight. I have ridden an '05 coil Pike briefly. The Push guys prefer the coil over to the air, if that means anything to you.

Jaybo

 

[Jaybo]

Pop lock sucks

I would not get the bar mounted poplock myself. Most people who got it decided they would rather have skipped the bar clutter, though a few dig it. You cannot just take the bar mounted remote off and adjust the fork manually if you do get the poplock model. The damper has an internal spring for lockout return and it will not stay put if you remove the remote. If you rarely would lock the fork out, skip the poplock.

I love the Revelation but the Pop Lock is cheesy! I am going to call RS and downgrade to having it put on the top of the fork where it belongs. I can't understand a lock out on a 5" travel fork unless you ride on the road a lot.

Jaybo

 

[scepticshock]

I understand that the Push guys prefer the coil. Is it true that the future mods will only be for the coils?
Even so, the flexability of the air is still pushing me in that direction.

 

[tscheezy]

On the Foxes and Rockshox and many other forks, the spring and the damper are in different legs. I would assume Push would concentrate on the damper leg only.

 

[LarsF]

Going U-turn or Dual Air?

TS and others have mentioned that the travel can be decreased by increasing the negative spring air pressure. I currently have a Talas and never adjust the travel during a ride. If I am looking to tweak the A-C depending prior each ride, is Dual Air the way to go? (less $ and weight...)

With the dual air, what are the differences in performance when reducing travel by:
1) Increasing the negative pressure
2) Decreasing the positive pressure to increase sag
3) Changing the internal spacers to get 130 vs 140

Thanks

 

[tscheezy]

They are functionally the same. If you install the spacer, the fork cannot extend the last 10mm. The negative chamber acts as the negative spring which gives you a soft topout instead of a metal on metal topout whack. The negative pressure is a spring pushing back against the positive spring. The stronger (higher pressure) the negative, the more it compresses the positive (and also forces the fork into a compressed state).

If you reduce the travel via the spacer, you need to increase the negative pressure so that the fork does not slam up into the spacer at topout. If you installed two spacers, you would need to add even more negative pressure, etc. If the spacer now magically vanished but you still had that increased negative pressure, the fork would still stop around the same place because the negative pressure is inhibiting extension.

The spacer is useful if you want some level of topout whack at 130mm extension.

Think of the fork as a tube with a sliding piston in it. As you increase the pressure on one side of the piston it slides the other way until the two sides equilibrate in pressure. You cannot really raise the negative pressure much above the positive, because the fork will just compress (you will see the negative pressure going higher than what you set the positive at, but what you don't realize is that the positive pressure is now also increasing as the fork compresses). You can, however, raise the positive pressure above the negative, but as soon as you do, the fork will top out.

 

[scepticshock]

I think you are right TS, the Push mods should go for either air or coil. As for the question above, I thought these forks had U-Turn adjusters for travel. Does travel adjustment require spacers?

 

[tscheezy]

I'm talking about the dual air forks. The u-turns are different critters. I have not seen one.