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Roll on Spring Time!
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
does anybody have experience with both the pike 454 u-turn air and coils?

i am looking to put a set on an all mountain frame, still deciding, but need to choose which would suit my needs. i would choose the coils for obvious reasons, cost and durability. i cant look to fox because of the bank breaking cost and i have heard nothing but praise for the pikes. do the air forks justify the additional price as i am on a serious budget to get my build-up complete within my lifetime. i understand the adjustability of the airs, kinda, but they will cost a good wack more. are the coils gonna be way more durable than the air forks?
to be more precise, i guess my question is how good are the coils? are people only raving about the air forks?

shot!
 

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carpe mañana
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7,309 Posts
juan pablo said:
does anybody have experience with both the pike 454 u-turn air and coils?

i am looking to put a set on an all mountain frame, still deciding, but need to choose which would suit my needs. i would choose the coils for obvious reasons, cost and durability. i cant look to fox because of the bank breaking cost and i have heard nothing but praise for the pikes. do the air forks justify the additional price as i am on a serious budget to get my build-up complete within my lifetime. i understand the adjustability of the airs, kinda, but they will cost a good wack more. are the coils gonna be way more durable than the air forks?
to be more precise, i guess my question is how good are the coils? are people only raving about the air forks?

shot!
I've used all 3, the coil, the dual air, and an air u-turn.

The coil is more reliable, but it is easy to bottom out when you run a spring recommended for your weight. Running a heavier spring will prevent bottoming, but will adversely affect fork's small bump sensitivity. The air model, on the other hand, due to the progressive characteristic of the air spring medium, ramps up really well at the end of the stroke preventing bottomout very well. It is less reliable, however. I've had issues with the dual air model, where I would lose up to an inch of travel on a single outing, depending on how hard I rode. I had an issue with air passing from positive to negative chamber. A buddy of mine runs an air u-turn model on his dirt jumper and has had no problems to speak of.

If you're the kind of rider who like for his forks to have excellent small bump sensitivity and be able to take big hits well, I think the only choice is Marzocchi. I've been very satisfied with my Pike's in narrow applications, like the coil I run with extra heavy springs on my DJ bike, where all I care about is BIG hit performance when I case the gap. Or when I ride street.

Anyhow, rather than talk you into some other fork, between the coil and the air, go air as it is a more versatile fork.

_MK
 

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Roll on Spring Time!
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1,547 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
thanks for the feedback MK
You are welcome to recommend any fork you liking. i actualy bought the revelation to fit a frame taking a 130mm travel fork. but now i am looking at frames that take a 140mm fork so i am looking to do an exchange as the revelation is still in the box, luckily. i like the option of the u-turn as some of the frames would benefit from shorter travel when climbing. but hey i am open to any sugestions.
my main problem is budget as everything including frame keeps getting put up to the next level and in the end the additional costs are looking huge when put together. i am trying not to skimp too much and just need to make the right choices.
 

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carpe mañana
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7,309 Posts
juan pablo said:
thanks for the feedback MK
You are welcome to recommend any fork you liking. i actualy bought the revelation to fit a frame taking a 130mm travel fork. but now i am looking at frames that take a 140mm fork so i am looking to do an exchange as the revelation is still in the box, luckily. i like the option of the u-turn as some of the frames would benefit from shorter travel when climbing. but hey i am open to any sugestions.
my main problem is budget as everything including frame keeps getting put up to the next level and in the end the additional costs are looking huge when put together. i am trying not to skimp too much and just need to make the right choices.
What's the frame?

_MK
 

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Roll on Spring Time!
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
i have limited test rides available so i have posted another thread in the all mountain section to get some advice. i am looking at the spesh enduro s-works 2006 cause it is on sale now. i like the orange 5 and meta 5.5 and the reviews of the heckler sound great. i read about some boys riding 4x bikes and they also sound amazing. i am looking to get the cash for my frame in about two months. at the mo i am riding a hard tail but its getting outta control as i push it harder and harder. this year i plan to get into all mountain riding and since io am laying out all this cash in a short space of time i need to make sound choices as the misses will not let me spend cash to replace things in the near future.
 

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carpe mañana
Joined
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7,309 Posts
juan pablo said:
i have limited test rides available so i have posted another thread in the all mountain section to get some advice. i am looking at the spesh enduro s-works 2006 cause it is on sale now. i like the orange 5 and meta 5.5 and the reviews of the heckler sound great. i read about some boys riding 4x bikes and they also sound amazing. i am looking to get the cash for my frame in about two months. at the mo i am riding a hard tail but its getting outta control as i push it harder and harder. this year i plan to get into all mountain riding and since io am laying out all this cash in a short space of time i need to make sound choices as the misses will not let me spend cash to replace things in the near future.
Cool. If you're coming off a hardtail, I wouldn't go above 5in in the rear. Full suspension is going to take some time getting used, particularly the increased ride height. The more travel you have, the higher your bottom bracket is going to be and when you get into 6in territory, it is really high.

Both the Orange 5 and the Heckler are high single pivots. These frames will give you a lot of pedal feedback, and the suspension stiffens up when you pedal. It takes away some of the traction, which adversely affects the technical climbing. They do descend very well, as the initial wheel path is rearward. They suffer from a lot of brake squat, however. This means that when you apply the brakes the suspension experiences a strong compressing force and the rear wheel is prone to losing traction when you want to slow down. It is particularly bad at high speed on really steep terrain. The upside of that is that your weight shifts a bit further back and you're less prone to endo, although, you may have a hard time stopping before some obstacle.

I don't know much about the Commencal suspension. It looks interesting and I am sure a lot of armchair engineers on these boards have dissected it's mechanics. I am also quite sure Tscheezy has reviewed the frame from a Interbike Dirt Demo, you may want to search for his opinions.

The Specialized is a good frame. I ride a Horst Link 4-bar, and it is a very decent linkage. It has milder brake squat characteristic than a single pivot, it is stiffer (by design, although an exceptionally well executed single pivot may be stiffer than a run of the mill 4-bar like Spechy; I hear good things about the Orange's stiffness). It pedals better than a single pivot, but it doesn't descend quite as smooth as the wheel path isn't so rearward. The mid sized bumps hold you back more on these.

You may want to look into some Konas as well. I'm not sure what their 5in offering is these days. I really like the 05 Coiler. Beefy, with 5in in the rear. I've seen quite a few near new go cheap on ebay.

But going back to forks, if you can find one, a 2004 Z1 FR with 130mm of travel would be a really b!tchin fork. The AM1 set to 130mm would be really killer as well. I can't say I would recommend any Fox. The only ones I've ever enjoyed riding were Vanillas, and their 32mm one is to flexy in my opinion to be ran at 5in and their 36 is too massive. Another good fork, although from hearsay, is an 03 or 04 Sherman Firefly with TPC dampers. Not quite as versatile as a Z1, but very solid. And it has RTWD, which drops an inch from the travel for the climbs, unlike the ETA, which really slams your fork down.

Good Luck. And, in pure honesty, I think you'll really dig whatever you'll end up getting as going from a hardtail to a 5in full susser is an amazing treat, in my opinion.

_MK
 

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Roll on Spring Time!
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1,547 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
cheers for all the feedback MK
most of the forks you have recommended are from 2004/2005 so i will have to check availability. i will have a better idea bout 5" sus when i get back home as i have sourced a test on an enduro and a commencal. only heard five stars for the commncal so i cant wait to see how far i can push it. i have plans to get more into all mountain and a little light free ride so thats why i am looking into longer travel. got the hardtail for the non technical days.
the thing that appeals to me about single pivot is the simplicity. i want to buy all my gear to last. dont know if i will get another chance to replace all the costly items. so its an investment buy all the way. i still like the sound of the santa cruz 4x, a little less travel but seems to tick all the boxes.
 
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