[Ryan97]

Looked it up, couldn't find any good info on the difference between it and the 454.

From Spec's website: Rockshox Pike 327 for Specialized, 140mm travel, coil U-Turn, alloy steerer, rebound adj., Maxle 360 included.

Are there just some adjustments missing? Weight or durability differences?

 

[General Hickey]

No motion control damper. That means no lockout, no compression, and no floodgate adjust. Not sure, but I also think it shares the same steerer/crown as the Pike 426, not the 454.

Cracks me up when I see these on ebay for $400.

 

[kapusta]

No motion control damper. That means no lockout, no compression, and no floodgate adjust. Not sure, but I also think it shares the same steerer/crown as the Pike 426, not the 454.

Cracks me up when I see these on ebay for $400.

Yep, pretty lame move. A Pike without the same internals is just not a Pike. It does not Surprise me that Spec would pull such a con, but I am a little surprised RS would do something like that to damage the reputation and image of one of the forks that brought them back in the game.

At least the 351 on the Pitch Pro has MoCo, but even then, it does not have the adjustable floodgate. Weak, totally weak. The 327 is just an abomination.

 

[retro83]

Yeah they are cheeky doing this, though I suppose you could retrofit a proper MoCo damper without too much hassle.

 

[scrublover]

How is it a con? They tell you the fork doesn't have the same stuff. OEM parts like this are nothing new, and RS or Specialized are hardly the first companies to do this sort of thing.

The Pitch Comp I picked up to get the frame had one of those Pike 327s on the front. Tossed in a MoCo damper cart and it now resides quite nicely on the front of my SS, working just fine. Mine had an alloy steer tube, but doesn't have the hollow crown.

Order up a MoCo cart and upper knob kit and you're good to go.

https://www.bikeman.com/Dampers.html

https://www.bikeman.com/FK3997.html

 

[retro83]

How is it a con? They tell you the fork doesn't have the same stuff. OEM parts like this are nothing new, and RS or Specialized are hardly the first companies to do this sort of thing.

Yes except normally they change the steerer, or the colour, or the travel - not the damper (IMHO the key part of what makes the Pike a good fork). Out of the box what you've got is more like a cheap Tora than a Pike.

It'd be like Apple selling Macbooks without OSX.

 

[scrublover]

Yes except normally they change the steerer, or the colour, or the travel - not the damper (IMHO the key part of what makes the Pike a good fork). Out of the box what you've got is more like a cheap Tora than a Pike.

It'd be like Apple selling Macbooks without OSX.

So?

My point still stands: it's disclosed that the fork does not have MoCo damping in the bike's description online/in sale stuff, and you can see it for yourself looking at the bike in a shop.

They aren't hiding that fact, so how is it a con? It's one of the reasons the Pitch Comp sells for less than the Pro - the lack of MoCo on the fork.

I'm not defending the practice - all sorts of companies do similar - I'm just saying it's not a "con" when it's something out in the open, not hidden.

The Pike even without MoCo still rides better than some other forks out there, but yes, it is much nicer with MoCo damping, IMO.

 

[kapusta]

So?

My point still stands: it's disclosed that the fork does not have MoCo damping in the bike's description online/in sale stuff, and you can see it for yourself looking at the bike in a shop.

They aren't hiding that fact, so how is it a con? It's one of the reasons the Pitch Comp sells for less than the Pro - the lack of MoCo on the fork.

I'm not defending the practice - all sorts of companies do similar - I'm just saying it's not a "con" when it's something out in the open, not hidden.

The Pike even without MoCo still rides better than some other forks out there, but yes, it is much nicer with MoCo damping, IMO.

"Con" was perhaps the wrong word. However, "misleading" is a fair description. Part of the selling point of the bike is the fact that it has a "Pike" on it. Someone who is not too savvy on the technology may do their homework and ask if Pikes are good forks, and unless someone is aware of this rather obscure exception to the rule (and few people are), they will be told that Pikes ARE very good, because (until this one came out) they were all top notch, regardless of model. I am about as familiar with the Pike line of forks as anyone could ever be expected, and until this one in particular was brought to my attention, if someone had told me a bike they were looking at came with a Pike, I would have told them it is a top notch fork. They are using the Pike name because it carries with it a certain amount of credibility, but they take out one of the key elements to it's established reputation.

It would be like if Chris King made special OEM headsets for one bike company that came with unsealed low grade cage bearings, but made no mention of it on their own website. Don't tell me that would not increase the appeal of the bike for those not pouring over the spec sheet of the bike. Further, the bike company would clearly be RELYING on people not knowing the difference to capitalize on the reputation earned by a different headset than what they are selling.

 

[scrublover]

I understand/get you point. Specialized isn't going out of their way to make it known, for sure. That doesn't negate that the fork difference is there if you read/look at the descriptions of the two bikes - different than the King scenario you present in that respect, even if they don't make a it a big deal in the ad copy. (speci that is - i know the sram site doesn't mention the oem stuff. at least not that i've ever seen.)

"Con" was perhaps the wrong word. However, "misleading" is a fair description. Part of the selling point of the bike is the fact that it has a "Pike" on it. Someone who is not too savvy on the technology may do their homework and ask if Pikes are good forks, and unless someone is aware of this rather obscure exception to the rule (and few people are), they will be told that Pikes ARE very good, because (until this one came out) they were all top notch, regardless of model. I am about as familiar with the Pike line of forks as anyone could ever be expected, and until this one in particular was brought to my attention, if someone had told me a bike they were looking at came with a Pike, I would have told them it is a top notch fork. They are using the Pike name because it carries with it a certain amount of credibility, but they take out one of the key elements to it's established reputation.

It would be like if Chris King made special OEM headsets for one bike company that came with unsealed low grade cage bearings, but made no mention of it on their own website. Don't tell me that would not increase the appeal of the bike for those not pouring over the spec sheet of the bike. Further, the bike company would clearly be RELYING on people not knowing the difference to capitalize on the reputation earned by a different headset than what they are selling.

 

[kapusta]

I understand/get you point. Specialized isn't going out of their way to make it known, for sure. That doesn't negate that the fork difference is there if you read/look at the descriptions of the two bikes - different than the King scenario you present in that respect, even if they don't make a it a big deal in the ad copy. (speci that is - i know the sram site doesn't mention the oem stuff. at least not that i've ever seen.)

I was not very clear in my CK example. I meant that it was not on the CK website, so people who are very familiar with CK would not know of the "exception". If the difference was not stated in the bike's spec sheet, THAT would be a con. You are right, that is not what Spec is doing.

But you are right, it is there for anyone to see. Actually, with a lot of other components I would not have the same reaction. If they stated it had a Tora 302, and someone assumed incorrectly that it was like the Tora 318 his buddy loves, I would not call that "misleading". So yeah, it's kind of a gray area, I can see where someone would not think of this as "misleading".

 

[Nick_M2R]

Really annoys me when manufactures do things like this with out giving much info about so that people get tricked...

Pike without the motion control shouldnt be called a pike

 

[Johnni]

Guys, as long as you don't turn on the motion control damping (fork or remote switch) it doesn't matter if you have MC installed or not.

 

[kapusta]

Guys, as long as you don't turn on the motion control damping (fork or remote switch) it doesn't matter if you have MC installed or not.

MC does not turn "on" and "off". You are just describing the lockout feature. There is more to it than that.

 

[Johnni]

No. MC doesn't have any effect if you don't turn it on. You can adjust the effect of the "lockout" with the floodgate, but you only feel it if MC is switched to on position. MC is way overrrated and a Pike without it doesn't feel any different.

 

[kapusta]

No. MC doesn't have any effect if you don't turn it on. You can adjust the effect of the "lockout" with the floodgate, but you only feel it if MC is switched to on position. MC is way overrrated and a Pike without it doesn't feel any different.

No, you are mistaken, possibly as a result of not knowing how to tune a MC unit with an adjustable floodgate properly. I don't mean to sound condescending, but you clearly don't understand how MC works. The floodgate works as a blowoff even when the compression knob is NOT in the lockout position, and has a real effect on the performance of the fork.There is no "on" or "off" to MC. What you are just describing as turning it "on" is simply turning the compression adjustment to max (fully closed).

Read this is you want to understand why I am saying this:

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=1498056#poststop

This also explains why it is important to get the MC with the adjustable floodgate. MC with a non-adjustable floodgate sacrifices a lot of tunability, and is generally set too firm for my tastes in something like the Pike.

 

[Johnni]

Thx for the link. I still believe MC is overrrated. The RS Manual doesn't say a thing about the adjustments you describe in unlocked compression. It only says adjust the floodgate while compression is locked. (because you only feel a difference while compression is locked). Although you can't find anything on the sram website.

 

[kapusta]

Thx for the link. I still believe MC is overrrated. The RS Manual doesn't say a thing about the adjustments you describe in unlocked compression. It only says adjust the floodgate while compression is locked. (because you only feel a difference while compression is locked). Although you can't find anything on the sram website.

Yeah, I don't know why they do not go into this somewhere on their sight, perhaps it is too complicated. Hey, everyone is entitled to there opinion, but until you ride one properly adjusted (which SRAM unfortunately gives you no help in doing) I think you won't really know if it is overrated or not.

 

[retro83]

MC is way overrrated and a Pike without it doesn't feel any different.

The trouble is that at low speed or in the car park this is true, when actually riding on the trails big/fast hits cause simple orifice dampers to spike badly.

This is the same reason why people are adding a shimstack to TST2 marzocchi forks.