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Short-Change-Hero
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
<RANT>

So I have witnessed (both crash and aftermath) of two incidents in the last two days that resulted in injury of close there of.

First incident,
Riding on Sunday, had just jumped on the trail in Ash Canyon, was just at the small S-section where there are two bushes that obscure your vision both climbing and descending. Guy in his 50s in front of me about 20yds hit that section right as three young boys (mid to late teens) were coming down the trail. I was scanning far enough ahead that I saw helmets and reacted but the older guys (acting like an XC racer) apparently was not paying attention.

What I witnessed was a full crash. First boy coming down hit the climber just about dead on but was able to throw himself out of the way so he did not hit the rider coming up. Older guy was able to stagger and dump his bike, which was tangled with the boys, while the boy took a nice dirt nap ending about 20ft from his bike in a bush. Mind you, in my mind both were at fault here, boy was not paying enough attention in a congested area with no bell and climber just had his head down (as we had climbed the bike path from Ash Canyon road he kept looking back at me and pedaling harder, same once we hit dirt) and just pushing up the hill oblivious.

Part I have issue with is the guy then started bad mouthing the kid. "You're gonna take someone out like that you idiot!" Kid was profusely apologetic the entire time, mind you the guy just staggered, kid took full commit dirt nap. "You need to watch your speed and not ride out of control!" kid again apologizes but in my mind if he was able to throw himself out of the way he had more control than he was being given credit for. Again this section is loose, dusty and has two tall bushes that create blind spots in the S trail.

I checked with both riders to be sure everyone was ok, they were. As I rode by the kid continued to profusely apologize while the guy berated him for "riding like an idiot and being out of control." This was later stated to me when I was just about to the first tree on Jack Rabbit and the guy yells "On your left!" to pass me (I was not going slow but he obviously was in a hurry) and then says as he passes "That idiot is going to $%@*ing take someone out. Seriously out of control." I didn't say anything to him. Later we crossed paths again as he was coming down and I was climbing to Dog Bowl and he says "see proper trail etiquette." as he was pulled off the trail a bit.

This whole situation could have been avoided had the kids had bells on their bikes during the descent. The older guy was not someone I recognized as a normal rider out there, Kids I recognized from the HS team, so this brings me to the belief that we are getting more and more out of town riders. To the point that I met a young guy, mid 20s, that was at the base of 4-day/Evidence looking at a trail map. After talking with him I found out he was a recent transplant for Montana, living in Reno but wasn't overly impressed with Peavine trails and heard that Carson trails were better. I have started recommending bells to everyone as the transition to downhill sections, with the amount of hikers and bikers of every level we have, the influx of e-bikes on the trails with less experienced riders, etc. It is simple and cheap insurance that everyone can have and keep everyone safe. I have a Mountain TimberBell and have had multiple people comment on how far away they can hear it in Tahoe, Colorado and Utah. Again cheap insurance.

Second incident was last night...
Part of the HS mtb team was out doing a training ride and one of the young girls crashed. Hard enough that one of the dads was carrying her off the trail while she was crying. I knew her and her dad, apparently she was not paying attention in one of the dusty/loose sections and over-corrected hard enough to cause a nasty crash. She was walking with help once they got to the bike path, but probably be a bit before she is on the bike again.

While not as dramatic/drastic as the first incident, it just seems to me like people are paying less attention to their surrounds, trail conditions, etc. I can't tell you how many times I have run into riders and hikers with either earbuds in or a speaker on their pack blaring music. Most don't hear me until I am on them (regardless of up or down, bell or no bell) and are startled once they do hear me. Trail distractions like this are what get people hurt and lack of trail etiquette seems to be becoming for of a "thing" now. Maybe I am turning into that old crotchety rider (GET OFF MY LAWN!!!) or something but this year the courtesy and attention/awareness of the riders out there is ridiculous.

Please everyone, invest in a bell, use it regularly, don't put on music while you ride and if you fell you must please do so in a low enough volume that you can still pay attention to everything around you.

</rant>
 

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So I don't disagree with Greg, BUT, I think the HS team needs to practice elsewhere, that trail is not designed for the volume and intensity they bring, it was a problem last year and it appears their numbers have only increased.

I think they need to move it to Centennial and use the double track to work on endurance and to practice intervals.

There's no way they are going to be able to continue running fifty kids and adults in large packs at the peak after work hours.

I do not think it's fair that community riders have to be more careful because the high school "team" is overwhelming a single track trail. Team riding needs to take place in a larger format system with double track.
 

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Short-Change-Hero
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
So I don't disagree with Greg, BUT, I think the HS team needs to practice elsewhere, that trail is not designed for the volume and intensity they bring, it was a problem last year and it appears their numbers have only increased.

I think they need to move it to Centennial and use the double track to work on endurance and to practice intervals.

There's no way they are going to be able to continue running fifty kids and adults in large packs at the peak after work hours.

I do not think it's fair that community riders have to be more careful because the high school "team" is overwhelming a single track trail. Team riding needs to take place in a larger format system with double track.
Ben... First instance/incident was independent of the type practice but I do agree that it is getting harder to be out there at peak hours when you have a group of 20+ riders all grouped together coming down/going up. I have talked with a couple of the coaches and they are attempting to break up the practices so that the groups are smaller and they are having some of the groups move to different areas to practice (centennial, prison hill, mexican dam, etc.) depending on what they are working on. On top of that they are doing "other" endurance type practices elsewhere.

However, this is not something that is completely limited to the HS team. I have come across multiple hikers that have "chosen" to hike UP Creek Trail during peak hours. There was one gentleman and his dog that I ran across every night for two weeks that I rode (3-5 days a week) between 6 and 6:30pm that would be hiking up Creek trail with his headphones on while his dog ran ahead of him. Regardless of having my TimberBell (which isn't quiet) going or not, he always got surprised. While I understand these are all multi-use trails, everyone needs to be aware, not just of their surroundings but also the times they are on the trails at, etc.

Carson is growing still and we are becoming more popular as an "outdoor destination" due to the publicity of the Epic Rides races, the proximity of trails to Tahoe, and the fact that our trails usually dry out months prior to anywhere else. So it is going to be something that happens on the regular. Trail etiquette and courtesy is something that has fallen to the wayside in recent years (you and I both experienced this in Tahoe a few weekends ago) where riders just have stopped caring, especially during peak times. This will inevitably cause an injury and subsequently trails can and will be closed.
 

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GONE
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I agree that bells are a necessity on popular trails and probably should be a state law requirement on any trail.

What we are doing here in my state is to supply free trail bells to use. A box to contain the bells is erected at each major trail entry/exit. And yes, riders often take the bells or forget to return them so the community should be prepared to refill the bell boxes as often as needed.

Talk with your city leaders, bike shops, and other local riders and make this happen.
 

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We already have bell boxes and many riders use bells.

I agree that bells are a necessity on popular trails and probably should be a state law requirement on any trail.

What we are doing here in my state is to supply free trail bells to use. A box to contain the bells is erected at each major trail entry/exit. And yes, riders often take the bells or forget to return them so the community should be prepared to refill the bell boxes as often as needed.

Talk with your city leaders, bike shops, and other local riders and make this happen.
 

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Short-Change-Hero
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
We already have bell boxes and many riders use bells.
Ben is correct, we do have bell boxes at the main trailhead (Foothill drive) and then also on Creek Trail start. However, I think I have noticed one or two people using those bells (provided in part by the High School team) but more often then not riders do not use bells. I believe that the trails in carson are not becoming more sought after so we are seeing a larger influx of users.
 

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Short-Change-Hero
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
People forget the uphill rider has the right-of-way. However, that's not going to help if you get hit.
Unfortunately that is not something that is just limited to our community. While I have found that a lot of the riders the come down from the Tahoe area and are more "lift oriented" riders tend to not pay attention to basic trail etiquiette, it is something that is pretty rampant. Been yelled at plenty of times in Reno on Peavine for actually pulling off the trail and stopping for an uphill rider, only to have they berate me because they believed it wasn't far enough, I was going to fast or some other random reason.

Even this evening I ran into a group of young boys at the bottom of Ash Canyon that have been building a new jump at the very end/beginning just off the pavement that left their bikes strewn all over. On the way up there was about eight of them and their bikes were literally laying on the trail, with a group of three of them just standing about 2ft from the trail. I politely asked them to move their bikes off trail as I weaved through everything. No response.

On the way down, as I was crossing the bikepath I found that a few of them were still around (this was over an hour later) and literally had three bikes laying in the center of the trail. They were throwing rocks at each other or something just off the trail, not paying attention. Luckily I was otherwise I would have ridden right into their bikes. I chose not to say anything as this is not the first encounter I have had with them in the same general area, with the same stuff going on. They have built a couple real sketch jumps right by the main jump at the very end as you come down Jack Rabbit (you will know what I am talking about if you ride it much) and I am pretty sure one of them is going to get hurt pretty soon here.

But at this point, I would rather not be "that asshole" that the kids complain too because mom and dad are sick of them in the house with what is currently going on, and rather let them learn by their own mistakes.
 

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Don't Tread on Me
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I saw the new "construction" on Jack Rabbit. It is kind of a pathetic effort really. Do they have visions of a dual slalom course? The little jump they are going around is way better than anything they are building.

At least they are outside.
 

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those kids have been mucking about in the retention pond lately. that's where they should stay to build their jumps. the bottom of jack rabbit/vicee isn't the place. that whole stretch is getting F'ed as it is with the braiding from all the clueless off-trail, non-yielding riders. can't find enough dead sagebrush, etc. to block it all off.
 

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Short-Change-Hero
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Yeah they are all between the ages of 8 and 13 so I highly doubt they know what they are doing. Same kids that constructed one of the little rock jumps just after where Vicee and JR connect (descent) that is literally a little packed dirt infront of a jagged rock. I tried to hit it when I first noticed and the dirt is so soft that I almost endo'd.

At this point, with spring break being next week for Carson schools, I only anticipate their presence (and my lack of patience) to be increased.
 

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Somebody blew it and augered in yesterday in Ash Canyon. We watched the CalStar 'copter land in the flat area near the 7 Steps/Deer Run split and pick up a passenger.
 

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Short-Change-Hero
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Somebody blew it and augered in yesterday in Ash Canyon. We watched the CalStar 'copter land in the flat area near the 7 Steps/Deer Run split and pick up a passenger.
Must have missed this in the news. Any other info?

Unfortunately it seems to be getting worse. Seeing more and more out of state vehicles and more "ill prepared" trail users.
Last week on Thursday evening had a run-in with a hiker that literally had his headphones on so loud that he couldn't hear me yelling behind him. This was up on the mid section of Ash to Kings at about 7pm. Finally had to dismount and leave bike after yelling and screaming at him for a good couple minutes. Ended up yanking on his pack to get his attention and the ration of **** I got for "YANKING" on his pack instead of TAPPING him on the shoulder was just stupid.

Finally after a minute or two of arguing I saw that he felt he was more important than anyone else on the trail (no apology for headphones, blaring music, not paying attention, nada) so I apologized and told him I was grabbing my bike to pass him if that was ok with him. He grunted a reply and shuffled a little off the trail.

Then funniest part of the night happened, as I started to pull away he yelled at me "HOW CLOSE AM I TO THE END?" When I asked him if he was looking to get to creek trail, the road, what? He said, I don't know I just need to get down. Thought to myself... ah that explains it, out of towner with new idea where/what he is doing.
I chuckled and said, dude you are about halfway across, so about another good 3-4 miles before you hit road. And then pedaled off.

We were about a mile from Dog Bowl at that point. For me, from that point down to trail end at Foothill drive takes me a good 20 minutes of riding, all downhill. It was dark enough when I got to the parking lot a foothill that I was ready to take off my sunglasses. I bet dude hadn't even hit Dog Bowl by that time. Never saw anything about lost hiker, so figure he either made it off or got ate by something.. .LOL
 

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Must have missed this in the news. Any other info?

Unfortunately it seems to be getting worse. Seeing more and more out of state vehicles and more "ill prepared" trail users.
Last week on Thursday evening had a run-in with a hiker that literally had his headphones on so loud that he couldn't hear me yelling behind him. This was up on the mid section of Ash to Kings at about 7pm. Finally had to dismount and leave bike after yelling and screaming at him for a good couple minutes. Ended up yanking on his pack to get his attention and the ration of **** I got for "YANKING" on his pack instead of TAPPING him on the shoulder was just stupid.

Finally after a minute or two of arguing I saw that he felt he was more important than anyone else on the trail (no apology for headphones, blaring music, not paying attention, nada) so I apologized and told him I was grabbing my bike to pass him if that was ok with him. He grunted a reply and shuffled a little off the trail.

Then funniest part of the night happened, as I started to pull away he yelled at me "HOW CLOSE AM I TO THE END?" When I asked him if he was looking to get to creek trail, the road, what? He said, I don't know I just need to get down. Thought to myself... ah that explains it, out of towner with new idea where/what he is doing.
I chuckled and said, dude you are about halfway across, so about another good 3-4 miles before you hit road. And then pedaled off.

We were about a mile from Dog Bowl at that point. For me, from that point down to trail end at Foothill drive takes me a good 20 minutes of riding, all downhill. It was dark enough when I got to the parking lot a foothill that I was ready to take off my sunglasses. I bet dude hadn't even hit Dog Bowl by that time. Never saw anything about lost hiker, so figure he either made it off or got ate by something.. .LOL
getting worse for sure. hopefully the tahoe trails clear up soon; that'll cut out a lot of the out-of-towners (i hope). the etiquette seems to have taken a bit of dive at times as well. with the extra trail traffic, having earbuds in and tuned out seems even more stupid and selfish.

https://carsonnow.org/story/05/03/2019/careflight-called-bicycle-accident-ash-canyon-trail-friday

is all i've seen news-wise about it but i heard from a friend who witnessed the aftermath that the dude was sessioning the rock drop on the ash creek trail.
 
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