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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A friend gave me one of the new 2.4 Ardents for Xmas so I wanted to see how well it fit so I mounted it on the rear
Dam this tire is huge it fits but not by much not sure it would do to good with mud build up but this time of year everything is frozen around here
BTW the tire on the front is a WTB Stout which is not a small tire
I just ordered another for up front have to see how the rear works outs
Oh yeah mounted up on Stans Flows perfect sidewall seems very strong on these Ardents
 

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My first post on the Banshee forum. As I type I'm waiting for Brown Santa to arrive with my Paradox frame. It will also be my first 29" bike so I'm really looking forward to it. It's also my first hardtail in a long time so I'm a bit apprehensive about that.

I've got all kinds of shiny new bits lying around here to go on it. The only thing I haven't decided on is what tires to get. I would like the widest I can fit into the frame with sensible clearance. Your Ardent looks a bit tight for my tastes. Could I trouble you to measure the width of the tire at the edge of the treads, with a caliper.

I'm also wondering what tires guys are using on the Paradox. I've got Flow rims and want to use UST, TLR or 2Bliss only. I used and really liked Specialized Eskar 2.3 tires on my 26" but they are also very wide and I wonder if they will fit.

Ronnie.
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
When I first put the bike together I had Specialized Captian 2.2s on there and they fit great
The WTB Stout fit also and was a tad wider but not as much volume as the Captians
These Ardent 2.4s are just big im sure the 2.25 version would fit great
Maxxis tires are great tubeless
The 2.4s measure 61mm at the edge of the treads
 

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thecrackerasscracker said:
When I first put the bike together I had Specialized Captian 2.2s on there and they fit great
The WTB Stout fit also and was a tad wider but not as much volume as the Captians
These Ardent 2.4s are just big im sure the 2.25 version would fit great
Maxxis tires are great tubeless
The 2.4s measure 61mm at the edge of the treads
Thanks for the measurement.

How did you like the Captains? I was looking at them too. I wonder how they compare with the Eskar, size wise. You wouldn't by any chance know how wide the Captains are?

Maybe I'll just go ahead and try an Eskar.

Ronnie.
 

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Hey Ronnie, welcome to the Banshee forum :) Might see a bit of you here now you've (almost) got your Paradox

I'm still using a Stout up front and a 2.1 Fire XC pro in the rear. This measures a paltry 53mm, so as you can imagine has lots of clearance. I know this isn't what you're after though.

For the record, the Panaracer performs very well indeed for UK's mud and now thick snow. Also has plenty of cush. You need to forget everything you may have experienced with the 26" version (which I thought was mediocre) as the 29 version is very a very different performer.
 

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megalow maniac said:
For further reference you might be interested to see the clearance on my Paradox with Rampages on Gordos: http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=6123659&postcount=20

The tire is too close to the derailer for my likings (especially when things get muddy). That's why (well, and the other benefits that come with it) I have a HammerSchmidt on order :thumbsup:
[de-rail on] Oooohh MM - you devil - got a linky to where you're getting it from? When's it arriving? [de-rail off]
 

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err, 27.5+
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Ronnie, one thing to consider on 29er is that sometimes less is more. Tires which would be considered minimal by 26er standards can work really well on a 29er. Tires like the Ignitor, Crossmark, Karma, Bontrager ACX and XCR would never inspire confidence on my 26in bike, but every one of them worked great on the 29er. One real shocker for me was running a Karma in 1.9in width. It looked ridiculous, but had about as much cornering and climbing traction as a knobby 2.3 26in tire that I was used to.

I think this is one reason why The Captain is a popular tread. It has a fast rolling and low resistance center with decent side knobs to dig in. In a 2.2 it would be a very good tire for this style bike.

Put a big 2.3-2.4 tire on a 29er and you will feel it. Traction is outrageous, but so is the rolling resistance and acceleration.
 

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bonesetter2004 said:
Hey Ronnie, welcome to the Banshee forum :) Might see a bit of you here now you've (almost) got your Paradox.
There was a big Banshee box at home when I arrived last evening!:D

Today I started throwing a few parts on but didn't get very far. Headset and cranks is about all. I'm still waiting for the wheels and fork to arrive. Mike Curiak says I should get the wheels by the end of next week. Also, it doesn't look like I'll be able to get hold of a black fork.:nonod:

Ronnie.
 

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AL29er said:
Ronnie, one thing to consider on 29er is that sometimes less is more. Tires which would be considered minimal by 26er standards can work really well on a 29er. Tires like the Ignitor, Crossmark, Karma, Bontrager ACX and XCR would never inspire confidence on my 26in bike, but every one of them worked great on the 29er. One real shocker for me was running a Karma in 1.9in width. It looked ridiculous, but had about as much cornering and climbing traction as a knobby 2.3 26in tire that I was used to.

I think this is one reason why The Captain is a popular tread. It has a fast rolling and low resistance center with decent side knobs to dig in. In a 2.2 it would be a very good tire for this style bike.

Put a big 2.3-2.4 tire on a 29er and you will feel it. Traction is outrageous, but so is the rolling resistance and acceleration.
"AL29er", It may be counter intuitive but from all the research I've done on the subject, the rolling resistance is reduced with wider tires, compared to narrower. This of course assumes that they are the same type of tire and at the same pressure. I would always prefer using the widest tire I can "practically" fit into my frame. There is also the consideration that on a hardtail, the tire is the only "rear suspension" you have.

I take your point though. The Captain is reputed to be a good roller with good grip. I've also noted that the Specialized tires are generally have a large volume.

Ronnie.
 

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err, 27.5+
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That's an interesting viewpoint on the rolling resistance. I generally find the comparison hard to make as the smaller tire is typically lighter as well, so even if rr was higher I could turn the tire over easier.

I am right there with you on the hardtail cushion aspect. A 2.0 tire on a hardtail is not very comfortable unless you have a somewhat flexy frame. But I think there is a breaking point where you are not getting much more cushion for the amount of rubber you are pushing. I have run both my ht and fs 29ers with 2.3-2.35 tires and thought they were a bit sluggish with that much rubber. For my local trails the 2.1-2.2 tires with lower weight and rr are better IMO.

I am just saying to have an open mind. 29er is a whole different ball game. You may be surprised that a 2.2 29er may be right up your alley ;)
 

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AL29er said:
That's an interesting viewpoint on the rolling resistance. I generally find the comparison hard to make as the smaller tire is typically lighter as well, so even if rr was higher I could turn the tire over easier.

I am right there with you on the hardtail cushion aspect. A 2.0 tire on a hardtail is not very comfortable unless you have a somewhat flexy frame. But I think there is a breaking point where you are not getting much more cushion for the amount of rubber you are pushing. I have run both my ht and fs 29ers with 2.3-2.35 tires and thought they were a bit sluggish with that much rubber. For my local trails the 2.1-2.2 tires with lower weight and rr are better IMO.

I am just saying to have an open mind. 29er is a whole different ball game. You may be surprised that a 2.2 29er may be right up your alley ;)
I've attached a PDF file from Schwalbe which I found very interesting. I hope you do too. It is basically a scientific assessment of rolling resistance using SRM. It addresses your contention that heavier tires need a lot of power to accelerate. Their test shows it is not so.

It is an interesting but scientifically irrefutable fact that with all else being equal (pressure, tire/tread type, bike and rider weight), the footprint area with any tire will be the same.

But yes, it is my intention to use either the Captain 2.2 or if it will fit comfortably, the Eskar 2.3.

Ronnie.
 

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bonesetter2004 said:
Brilliant article Ronnie, thanks for posting it.

I suggest you maybe post this up in the 29er & tyres forum
Well, maybe I should now that I'm formally a member of the club.:devil: I think it has been on the tyre forum though.

Ronnie.
 

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Nice read. I have read it before. Very little in science and life is irrefutable ;) That article leaves me with more questions than answers. It is a nice case study and the conclusion is correct for the tires tested. To expand further with different brands and tread patterns is not scientific, there is no correlation.

The article also mentions that weight "compensation" was used, so the lighter tires were weighted somehow to remove that as a variable. Wish that had been included in the article. So it would be foolish to discount tire weight. The author does include a bit of a disclaimer to trivialize the weight effect since it is only during acceleration and deceleration that it is of issue. True, that is trivial in his study as it was constant speed on steady grade. However riding trails acceleration and deceleration occurs continuously throughout a ride. Over the course of a 2hr ride it does add up.

Not trying to pick a fight, just pointing out that the article isn't the end all be all authority. All you can really glean from the study is that weighted 2.0-2.1 Albert, Racing Ralph, or Fast Fred are higher in rolling resistance than unweighted 2.35-2.4 Albert, Racing Ralph, or Fast Fred tires on steady grade climbs at 6mph :D Anything beyond that is speculation;)

For the record I am an engineer not a scientist :)
enough derail on the thread, sorry.
 

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thecrackerasscracker said:
A friend gave me one of the new 2.4 Ardents for Xmas so I wanted to see how well it fit so I mounted it on the rear
Dam this tire is huge it fits but not by much not sure it would do to good with mud build up but this time of year everything is frozen around here
BTW the tire on the front is a WTB Stout which is not a small tire
I just ordered another for up front have to see how the rear works outs
Oh yeah mounted up on Stans Flows perfect sidewall seems very strong on these Ardents
Wow, the Stout looks absolutely small in comparison to the Ardent. Might be a perspective thing though. I've been thinking about the 2.4 Ardents on my Paradox. I can tell there isn't much room, but from the angle of the photo it's hard to tell how much room there really is. Any chance you could measure from the outside of the knobs to the inside of the frame on both sides and report back with the measurements?
 
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I really like this tire but it is a little too big for the rear
I have about 5 rides on it so far mostly in the snow and frozen stream crossing so the ice build up would rub sometimes on the non drive chain stay but for the most part I had no problem
You can see from the pic I had to grind the front derailluer to clear when it was in granny but I ride 95% in the middle ring (thinking of going 1x9)
I ordered another for the front it should be here tomorrow
I will give it some more time to see if ill keep it on the rear
The Captain 2.2 fit very nicely had great traction ,rolled well but the sidewall did not last long before i got a couple hole/slashes in it and I had to run a tube in it
The Stout is nice but to dam heavy and no good tubeless
 

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