Mountain Bike Reviews Forum banner

1 - 20 of 79 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
65 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A town where mountain bikers who regularly encounter obstacles of all sorts are somehow concerned with a couple of ruts made by riding in wet conditions that will go away in a few days..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
327 Posts
ricke123 said:
A town where mountain bikers who regularly encounter obstacles of all sorts are somehow concerned with a couple of ruts made by riding in wet conditions that will go away in a few days..
:rolleyes: Pardon me for showing some concern for unnecessary trail wear....

I wish this board had a :flipoff: smiley.

There are some areas of Cottonwood that wear particularly hard when they are wet or there is standing water on them. Given that 90% of the tracks that I see go around puddles when it rains, therefore widening the trail, I think that suggesting people avoid areas that might be prone to damage is legitimate.

I love riding in the rain, hell, I spent the first 12 years riding my bike in BC where the trails are wet 9 months of the year. But the trails here just don't seem to be as resilient.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
65 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
]unnecessary trail wear. There is the difference.Golly, let's see here: Blue skies, day off, hmmm. Necessary. Sorry, but I have had too many people give me **** on this one. It is an ultra lame angle.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
327 Posts
I'm not implying that you shouldn't ride you bike, hell ride it in the rain if you want. What I'm saying is that it is better if people avoid areas that are particularly soft when they are wet or there is standing water on them.

Every time I ride through the red dirt area on the mustang loop a few days after it has rained, it is absolutely decimated from people riding on it while it's wet. When the side hills in areas get eroded, the dirt doesn't magically re-appear. The trail either remains damaged, making the mtb community look bad or someone has to go in there and fix it. If you have seen MBB's posts here lately there appears to be a serious lack of interest in trail maintenance, so basically if people go out and damage the trails when they're wet, they're going to stay that way.

Again, I'm not saying people shouldn't ride after it has rained or even in the rain, I'm just saying they should be conscious of their impact. If you read my posts in this thread, you'll note that I was out there today too and had a great ride.
 

·
Young, Shawn Young
Joined
·
3,162 Posts
I seen a few puddles out there. I slow down a bit and go right thru the middle. Its a mountain bike, its suppose to get dirty:)
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
65 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
I was thinking that I might risk a ride and try to find a way to not face plant or otherwise endanger my safety when I encounter a rut caused by another mountain biker. Midol works wonders!
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
65 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
By the way Vernon, are you aware that you did indeed refer to mountain biking as stupid in your statement? Are you the guy who moved the rocks coming out of the wash at the end of Little Viagra? Thanks, they were so pesky.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
325 Posts
ricke123 said:
By the way Vernon, are you aware that you did indeed refer to mountain biking as stupid in your statement?




I didn't refer to mountain biking as stupid, I referred to your stupid action of tearing up the trail long term for everyone else only for your short term pleasure. Then to top it all off, having the idiocy to come on a mountain biking forum full of people who respect the trails and actually try to brag about such a foolish and dopey thing. :thumbsup:
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
65 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Since we are on the topic

poser: n.

[from French poseur] A wannabee; not hacker slang. Not as negative as lamer or leech. Probably derives from a similar usage among punk-rockers and metalheads, putting down those who “talk the talk but don't walk the walk”.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
325 Posts
Try responding directly to the topic at hand this time..........emm k?




The fact that you choose to ride on the couple of days out of the entire year that we get rain on a trail system that also happens to be one of our only areas in the Vegas area to ride, proves you are selfish and have very little self control.



Respond to that, attempted insults aside.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
65 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
You call me selfish, stupid, and lacking in self control and suggest that I refrain from insults. Okay Douchebag. The topic is the fact that any mountain biker concerned about a couple of ruts is a serious wuss/poser and they should stick to the road, the couch or perhaps the nail salon. So by suggesting that anyone with that mindset is a poser is staying on topic.
I can't comprehend getting even remotely concerned about a few ruts let alone being rude enough to spew my perspective onto others as though my perspective is the only correct one and also suggesting that the other person is a loser for having theirs. But I have been chastised by those wusses/posers a number of times and I am happy to have the opportunity to make fun of them in this forum.
We live in a free country and I and many others who love this sport and the conditions that create ruts will always be out there, so if I were you I would consider manning up there Vernon.
 

·
since 4/10/2009
Joined
·
31,694 Posts
The issue isn't the ruts themselves. Seems you've lost sight of that (or never had it to begin with, quite possibly). In the short term, you're right...what's a couple of ruts? As far as you can tell with your untrained eyes, nothing else happens there, right?

In the long term, however, you're dead wrong. You have to realize we're talking about the desert here. Soil development doesn't happen overnight. Even in warm, wet climates with soil development occuring at 100x the rate of desert climates, once you start to displace soil, it starts to wash away faster than it can be formed from the rock and decomposing organic matter. If you don't take efforts to stop it and repair the area, the soil won't be coming back in our lifetimes or even our grandchildren's lifetimes. Little to nothing can grow there in the future, and erosion nearby is also accelerated.

Once erosion starts to accelerate, sedimentation starts to accelerate downhill. If you've got any streams nearby that exist long enough to contain animals, that sedimentation decreases the amount of oxygen the water can hold and those animals lose habitat in an area with very little habitat to begin with.

Without active streams nearby, the increased sedimentation adds to alluvial deposits and can also bury and displace plants growing nearby at an accelerated rate. In a dry desert environment like the one we're talking about, some of that displaced sediment can be picked up by the wind contributing to windblown dust.

You want some examples of what can happen from just a couple of ruts that are ignored? Go find yourself an area where cattle have never been grazed. Then, find an area where the rancher has failed to move his cattle enough, and the cattle congregate in washes. Those cattle cause ENORMOUS amounts of erosion over time.

One cow walking down into a wash to get a drink is no big deal, just like one biker riding through the mud creating a rut is probably no big deal. The problem is that there's never just one cow and there's never just one biker making one trip through the mud. There's always a herd of cattle and there's always a second lap or a group of bikers who are thinking "oh, one rut is no big deal". It's the cumulative effect of all of that we need to be aware of.

If it's just rained...take a day off or ride somewhere with a more durable surface. Simple. And that way, we don't get into sophomoric pissing matches over who's the wuss or the poser. I'm not calling anyone a wuss or a poser, but I am calling out anyone who says one rut is nothing to be concerned with.

Our (collective, mountain bikers as a whole) access to places to ride our bikes is not a God-given (or constitutional) right. It's a privilege granted by those who manage the land we ride upon. Most of those potential agencies are also charged with ensuring the continued health of the land's soil, water, and living things. If recreation clashes one of those directives, it's the recreational activies that will get booted.

Grow up and use your brain.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
325 Posts
NateHawk said:
The issue isn't the ruts themselves. Seems you've lost sight of that (or never had it to begin with, quite possibly). In the short term, you're right...what's a couple of ruts? As far as you can tell with your untrained eyes, nothing else happens there, right?

In the long term, however, you're dead wrong. You have to realize we're talking about the desert here. Soil development doesn't happen overnight. Even in warm, wet climates with soil development occuring at 100x the rate of desert climates, once you start to displace soil, it starts to wash away faster than it can be formed from the rock and decomposing organic matter. If you don't take efforts to stop it and repair the area, the soil won't be coming back in our lifetimes or even our grandchildren's lifetimes. Little to nothing can grow there in the future, and erosion nearby is also accelerated.

Once erosion starts to accelerate, sedimentation starts to accelerate downhill. If you've got any streams nearby that exist long enough to contain animals, that sedimentation decreases the amount of oxygen the water can hold and those animals lose habitat in an area with very little habitat to begin with.

Without active streams nearby, the increased sedimentation adds to alluvial deposits and can also bury and displace plants growing nearby at an accelerated rate. In a dry desert environment like the one we're talking about, some of that displaced sediment can be picked up by the wind contributing to windblown dust.

You want some examples of what can happen from just a couple of ruts that are ignored? Go find yourself an area where cattle have never been grazed. Then, find an area where the rancher has failed to move his cattle enough, and the cattle congregate in washes. Those cattle cause ENORMOUS amounts of erosion over time.

One cow walking down into a wash to get a drink is no big deal, just like one biker riding through the mud creating a rut is probably no big deal. The problem is that there's never just one cow and there's never just one biker making one trip through the mud. There's always a herd of cattle and there's always a second lap or a group of bikers who are thinking "oh, one rut is no big deal". It's the cumulative effect of all of that we need to be aware of.

If it's just rained...take a day off or ride somewhere with a more durable surface. Simple. And that way, we don't get into sophomoric pissing matches over who's the wuss or the poser. I'm not calling anyone a wuss or a poser, but I am calling out anyone who says one rut is nothing to be concerned with.

Our (collective, mountain bikers as a whole) access to places to ride our bikes is not a God-given (or constitutional) right. It's a privilege granted by those who manage the land we ride upon. Most of those potential agencies are also charged with ensuring the continued health of the land's soil, water, and living things. If recreation clashes one of those directives, it's the recreational activies that will get booted.

Grow up and use your brain.





Thank you!!! :thumbsup:


There is nothing poserish about respecting the trails and waiting a couple of days for them to dry a bit before riding them.



Common sense applies here obviously so..............
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
65 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
So a trail that lacks a few ruts will soon be supporting new life and the rutted areas are essentially moonscape that will spread like a cancer? I don't think so. Your well thought out argument in no way convinces me to not ride. It is a great argument to stay on the designated trails though, which I think is common practice. Conversely, I think that riding while the trails are damp help to pack the trails down well and thus diminish the potential for future erosion.
I am using my brain and making sophomoric remarks directed at highly judgemental and condescending people, most of whom are also serious wusses.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
78 Posts
You are one hard-headed person, ricke123

ricke123 said:
So a trail that lacks a few ruts will soon be supporting new life and the rutted areas are essentially moonscape that will spread like a cancer? I don't think so. Your well thought out argument in no way convinces me to not ride. It is a great argument to stay on the designated trails though, which I think is common practice. Conversely, I think that riding while the trails are damp help to pack the trails down well and thus diminishing the potential for future erosion.
I am using my brain and making sophomoric remarks directed at highly judgemental and condescending people, most of whom are also serious wusses.
How can you summarily dismiss a well-thought-out and well-researched reply, really an appeal to your sensibilities, with a few careless words? You are presented with an argument that is clearly derived from either education in the area of land-use and erosion and/or reading the scientific literature on that subject and your defense for your potential and probable land-damaging riding decisions is essentially that you don't believe the information being provided is accurate. Further, you state that you believe you are actually helping to create a more durable trail. I've read and heard arguments like yours over and over in the past and they all hinge on one one core belief: ignore any and all information that doesn't match your own paradigm (a paradigm that benefits the self interests of that individual or group without any consideration for any other individual or group) or, better yet, attack the information or the author of the information in order to discredit it. You've done both of these things in your last post.

For what it's worth, here is my opinion. I believe your only goal in this, the goal you share with others who mount similar arguments, is to serve your own self-interests and no rational (or irrational, for that matter) argument will sway you from attaining that goal - in this case to ride when and where you want and to hell with the consequences. It doesn't matter that you might inconvenience others or create problems for others, you got yours and that's what really matters for people like you. I'm sure you'll lump me in with the rest of the "wusses" or "pansies" in an attempt to dismiss or discredit me, but I'm pretty sure I've got the big picture here right, if not all of the details.
 
1 - 20 of 79 Posts
Top