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what's that rattle?
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This all started in April. I had a bunch of AM/FR components sitting around, and was after a deal on a 2007 El Guapo frame. At the time I didn't find the right number on a frame and couldn't move my 1x1, so I decided to postpone the purchase. Fastforward to July. Bob had a 2008 gold Guapo that I really couldn't resist, I sold my Surly and wrote a requiem, and I had exchanged my Van36 for a Talas36 (which I think belonged to Dominator13 - it was very well broken in!) I got the frame and fork one day after my toolbox had been shipped to WhistlerLand, and unable to wait, I did all of the building that I could with a torque wrench and a tube of grease.

Frame Impressions:
First of all, the gold color looks way better in real life than it does in photos. The welds look good - but not quite as good as they look on my 2007 MotoLite. All of the linkage hardware was torqued exactly to spec, which was very nice to see. The chainring bolt holding the derailleur hanger on snapped at about 45 in-lb, despite the fact that Titus recommends 80+/- 10 in-lb on their assembly document. I seem to remember the same thing happening when I built up my ML, so no big deal, any non-Titus chainring bolt seems able to carry the recommended torque. Frame weight for a large with seat clamp, hanger and shock was just under 8 lb.

The Build:
Getting the frame built after getting home from Whistler was my number one priority. It was mainly an XT build with 721 rims, Hayes Purple brakes, Atlas cranks (22-34-bashguard), a Fire FR 2.4 rear tire and a Nevegal Stick-E 2.35 front. I'd estimate the complete weight at 34-35 lb.

First Ride Impressions:
Confidence inspiring. Compared to the MotoLite The Guapo is much more solid and makes it easier to get the front wheel up. I was having some brake rub issues and my M750 low clamp front derailleur was useless for everything except making noise, but I still just wanted to jump off of anything I could find! It pedals extremely well even with ~50% sag (more on that later) and has descending manners that remind me of my DH bike. On more than a few descents I scared myself by carrying more speed and having worse brakes than I would with my ML. :D

The Common Complaints:
-BB Height: Doesn't seem to be an issue in forested/rooty terrain or while descending as long as the fork is set at 160mm. I only use the Talas for smooth climbs or road sections so no problems there. I did get quite a few pedal strikes while riding in Moab, but I can't really say the ML would have done better. If anything took getting used to it was the upright riding position - I smash my shoulders into trees way more than I hit my pedals on the ground!

-Cable Routing: I've got pretty long legs so I'm not really even coming close to hitting my legs on the cables or guides. The rear derailleur seems to be really hard to actuate, but I can't really understand why. I might try re-routing with teflon cables and continuous housing next season. Has anyone else experienced this?

-Tire Rub: With 50% sag and that big 2.4 tire I was hearing the buzz when bunny-hopping. Turned out the Nevegal was 1/4" shorter in tread height than the Fire, so switching the front and rear and ramping up the air pressure in the RP23 resolved most of that issue. I'm not sure, but I get the impression that the Guapo would be really well suited for a shock with bottom out control - it pedals so well at low pressure it's a shame to need to turn down the plush at the beginning of its travel. Still, I'm more than a little tempted to relocate the front derailleur housing guide that the tire rubs on...

-Department of Redundancy Department: Can a Guapo and a ML happily coexist? While building the gold one, I lightened the ML to about 28 lb. It feels like an absolute rocket in comparison, but after doing some time trials I found that the ML is only about 5 minutes faster on an hour long loop. Probably burnt 20% more calories in the process (I'd have to see what the HRM data says) but a Guapo will go XC if you stomp on it! Both bikes are great, I never know which one to take!
 

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what's that rattle?
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
ScottW said:
Nice review, this bike is definitely one I'm interested in.

Is that Moab shot from Amasa Back? That spot looks familiar.
Good eye, that's on Amasa Back. The Guapo is a lot of fun to play with on trails with those kinds of features.
 

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I know that ledge cause I've seen guys hit it as I've ridden the easy way up/down.:yikes:

Do you know what your BB height is with that setup? I'm really interested in the 09 Guapo but there is conflicting information about some of the actual measurements.

How is frame stiffness? Seems like it would be good, even my 05 RX is a stiff frame so I would guess the Guapo is even better.
 

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NOT Team Sanchez
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My 08 is the most laterally stiff bike I've ever owned, Gemini, 06 RFX, Maverick ML8, NIcolai Helius ST,Cove Hustler, 08 Bullit, the guap' is the best.

I'll tell you what's up on the low BB issue.......it isn't an issue at all, a lower BB has tons of benefits and one drawback, pedal strikes when pedaling, and just maybe hittin' you bashguard, but hey that's why it's a BASHguard. With a little skill and finesse neither of these is a problem........my Nicolai's was even lower and that bike was the most stable descender I've ever thrown a leg over.........but hated going up hills :D
 

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what's that rattle?
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Just had a look at another photo and apparently I did hit that drop with my seat pretty high! No damage done, though. I've got long legs and usually don't even ride with a quick release so avoiding a frisky saddle isn't really a problem. I was hoping to see someone hit the step-up near that drop when I was there - I really wasn't confident about how much speed to carry. Since then, I've seen some video around here of some alternative lines off of that drop that looked really cool. I will definitely be riding Amasa Back again next trip to Moab.

The Guapo is a really stiff feeling frame. After riding the EG for a while, my ML feels "whippy." Part of that is due to the different builds, but there is noticeably more lateral compliance on the ML. I don't have an actual measurement of my BB height right now. Sitting beside my ML it looked like they were about the same, but I'd have to pull them out of storage to measure. For me, anything that lowers my CG is probably a good thing, even if it means the occasional pedal strike.

There's been a few issues on the board lately about conflicting frame geometry numbers. BB height, head angle, seat angle, etc. all depend on fork, headset and tire selection, as well as sag. It would be useful if manufacturers posted some additional information about frames based on tube lengths and angles, rather than the hypothetical complete bike numbers that are typically given.
 

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Wasea04 that's pretty strong praise. Right now I'm on an Intense 6.6, not known for being a stiff bike but I still like it. Unfortunately with a 160 Lyrik I now have a 66.5 headtube angle and a 14.5 BB height. The bike does climb well but can feel tippy with that tall bottom bracket.

A Guapo at 68* and 13.8ish BB height sounds like just the thing I'm looking for. The stiffest bike I've had so far was a 03 Foes FXR but it wasn't designed for the longer travel forks so in 06 I got the 6.6.

I've emailed Titus with the geometry questions in the thread I posted a few days ago. No reply so far, I may have to give them a call. Looking at the High Res images of the Guapo on their website it looks like they moved the front der cable stop down and towards the drive side. That should help with tire buzz.
 

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ScottW said:
A Guapo at 68* and 13.8ish BB height sounds like just the thing I'm looking for.
It won't be 68 and 13.8. With 2.4 tyres, and a Fox36, mine is less than 13.8. I haven't actually measured it since I had the pike on it (and it was 13.0, or maybe a little less), but it would definitely not be more than half an inch more than it was then. I doubt anyone on here has a 13.8" BB height, except maybe those with totems on theirs (dominator?), but then their HA would be much less than 68 too. Even with 160mm forks, some here have measured the HA to be overestimated too.

Having said all this, I like the geo just the way it is....
 

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Gold El Guapos

It's good to see other gold EG's on here. I built one up about a month ago. Love the way it rides. I came from a Racer X and I must say the EG is a burlier version of the Racer X. I've had a few pedal strikes but it's really no big deal.

Keep this thread alive, we need more EG talk!

Bicycle tire Bicycle frame Tire Wheel Bicycle fork


Tire Wheel Bicycle tire Bicycle frame Bicycle wheel rim
 

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sclyde2 said:
It won't be 68 and 13.8. With 2.4 tyres, and a Fox36, mine is less than 13.8. I haven't actually measured it since I had the pike on it (and it was 13.0, or maybe a little less), but it would definitely not be more than half an inch more than it was then. I doubt anyone on here has a 13.8" BB height, except maybe those with totems on theirs (dominator?), but then their HA would be much less than 68 too. Even with 160mm forks, some here have measured the HA to be overestimated too.

Having said all this, I like the geo just the way it is....
I did some searching through old post and found where eric from competitive cyclist measured his headangle at 66.5. Wonder why Titus's numbers are so off?
 

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what's that rattle?
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
cool-hand-luke said:
It's good to see other gold EG's on here. I built one up about a month ago. Love the way it rides. I came from a Racer X and I must say the EG is a burlier version of the Racer X. I've had a few pedal strikes but it's really no big deal.

Keep this thread alive, we need more EG talk!
That's a nice looking build! Have you ever weighed it with that configuration? I'm curious about how much I could shave if I gave mine a bit of the treatment over the winter. A buddy of mine has a Heckler with the same fork and wheelset and it's about two pounds lighter than my Guapo - I'm quite jealous!
 

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NOT Team Sanchez
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I want some gold bling too........

That gold is just plain gorgeous, I've got a gold race face diabolous bb.....can I be in your circle of friends now? What'd be pretty pimp is to get an ano gold rocker arm on a black frame! Maybe I'm a slacker but with my 180mm rc3 on front I love the geo, oh and don't those size sm Guap's look nimble...nice rig Zorg. Here's some shots of my Guap', most all of them are action shots as the handsome devil loves to roll :thumbsup: I'm diggin the El G goodness!!!!
 

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what's that rattle?
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
wasea04 said:
Sub thirty?????!?!?!?!?!?! Hot dang mine's 38lbs with single plys on! But then again it's a size large with a coil, and some heavy duty parts on it.....
Now that's the sign of a versatile frame! Now I'm not sure if I should find a lighter stem, post, seat and shave some weight or put my 888 and two-ply tires on it and make it into a real beast!
 

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The EG is 28.8 lbs on a bathroom digital scale.

The build-

Large EG frame, rp23 shock
Fox 36 Talas RC2
ZTR 355 Stans wheelset, Hope Pro 2 hubs
Hope Headset
Hope Mono Mini 160mm brakes
X9 Drivetrain, XO rear dearilleur
Thomson Elite Stem
Thomson Masterpiece seatpost
Truvativ Noir Carbon bar
Truvativ Stylo crank
Maxxis Tubeless Rear tire 2.1
Kenda Blue Groove 2.1 front
12 pack of PBR
 
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