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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've been riding my 2017 specialized enduro 29er since new. Love the freight train feeling when trail points down but want to have easier time climbing.
so far: I've swapped 70mm stem from 60, and went with 26x46 chainring/cassette.
would it be sacrilegious to swap the 160mm Lyrik for a 140mm fox rhythm 34 I have sitting around? There is also an option of getting a 150mm airspring for the Lyrik.
I know the head angle will steepen, bottom bracket will drop. -etc.
i cannot afford to swap the frame for at least a couple of years so that's not an option. what does the collective say? I think I'm envisioning a pseudo stumpjumper wanna-be bike. anything else that would help? is horst link as bad as some people say for climbing? I have a 2015 sc heckler in a 27.5 and it seems much more "poppy' on the trails-maybe its the single pivot or smaller wheels _I'm not sure how to define the difference.
 

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I can't see putting a shorter travel fork helping climbing unless you have issues with looping out on steep climbs. You could just push the saddle further forward on the rails to help with that. Also if looping out is your problem it doesn't make sense to swap a 70mm stem for 60mm like you did.

I've never ridden a horst link so I have no idea how good or bad they are.

Faster rolling tires is always going to be the best bet for making any bike feel faster on the climbs and flats. You'll just have to give up puncture protection and downhill grip.

My only mtb is an enduro bike (Banshee Rune) and I ride it everywhere. I plan on having a second wheel set for faster rolling XC tires since my weekday rides are easy pace on easy terrain. Mostly to keep my beefy tires nice and sharp instead of wearing down on the bits of pavement riding from home but also because a shallow tread XC tire rolls stupid fast in comparison.
 

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Spec bikes kinda stuck climbing. A shock you can add compression or a climb switch would help along with the suggestion of slaming the seat forward.
 

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I've been riding my 2017 specialized enduro 29er since new. Love the freight train feeling when trail points down but want to have easier time climbing.
....
Just off the cuff I'm thinking your suspension needs a tweak. If it's too wallowy (<-- real word!), your climbing will suffer.

When the trail goes up, do you feel like you fall way into the back seat? Firm up the rear susp. Not to the point of deactivating it, but just taut. Then balance the fork with the rear.
(disclaimer: I ride rigid 99% of the time)

-F
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Just off the cuff I'm thinking your suspension needs a tweak. If it's too wallowy (<-- real word!), your climbing will suffer.

When the trail goes up, do you feel like you fall way into the back seat? Firm up the rear susp. Not to the point of deactivating it, but just taut. Then balance the fork with the rear.
(disclaimer: I ride rigid 99% of the time)

-F
Very astute- however my rear shock is a rs monarch plus and when I took air can off there were 9 volume reducing bands on it-
I find this shock hard to adjust - its either wallowing😀 in 40% sag or it seems overly harsh in 30%_ this shock was a warranty replacement of the oem “non debbonair “ monarch plus.

The bike feels ponderous to climb compared to my heckler, which is a lowly single pivot with a Regular monarch aircan on it
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I can't see putting a shorter travel fork helping climbing unless you have issues with looping out on steep climbs. You could just push the saddle further forward on the rails to help with that. Also if looping out is your problem it doesn't make sense to swap a 70mm stem for 60mm like you did.

I've never ridden a horst link so I have no idea how good or bad they are.

Faster rolling tires is always going to be the best bet for making any bike feel faster on the climbs and flats. You'll just have to give up puncture protection and downhill grip.

My only mtb is an enduro bike (Banshee Rune) and I ride it everywhere. I plan on having a second wheel set for faster rolling XC tires since my weekday rides are easy pace on easy terrain. Mostly to keep my beefy tires nice and sharp instead of wearing down on the bits of pavement riding from home but also because a shallow tread XC tire rolls stupid fast in comparison.
Thanks- good points- i went TO 70mm stem FROM oem 60....
Saddle forward done also to compensate for longer effective reach obviously.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I guess not to get too long winded Im trying to “Trailify” (made up word)
my enduro.
With new downcountry bikes showing everybody that you dont need that much travel it got me thinking...
 

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I had an Enduro and this is exactly why I got rid of it. I took it to Angelfire and other parts of New Mexico and had a blast, but back home where its very up and down it was probably the least fun bike I have owned. Its a really big bike, and to make it worse Specializeds brand of horst link is super active. I've never had a bike wear me down just from pedaling like the Enduro.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I had an Enduro and this is exactly why I got rid of it. I took it to Angelfire and other parts of New Mexico and had a blast, but back home where its very up and down it was probably the least fun bike I have owned. Its a really big bike, and to make it worse Specializeds brand of horst link is super active. I've never had a bike wear me down just from pedaling like the Enduro.
Steven what bike did you end up on that you found to be more efficient?
; Dont say single speed rigid 😀
I have a fantasy of owning a Jones Swb bike one day but as I said I cannot buy one now.
 

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Steven what bike did you end up on that you found to be more efficient?
; Dont say single speed rigid 
I have a fantasy of owning a Jones Swb bike one day but as I said I cannot buy one now.
No rigid SS?! Kidding...

I have had both a YT Jeffsy, and right now I am on an RSD Wildcat. Both bikes use a horst link design, but are less travel and are much better suited for up/down varied type riding. The Jeffsy felt very much like a scaled down, much better pedaling version of the Enduro.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
No rigid SS?! Kidding...

I have had both a YT Jeffsy, and right now I am on an RSD Wildcat. Both bikes use a horst link design, but are less travel and are much better suited for up/down varied type riding. The Jeffsy felt very much like a scaled down, much better pedaling version of the Enduro.
I always found it interesting that all bike companies touted their own suspension designs as best ever right up until specialized’s exclusive use of the patent expired and all of them magically switched to horst link.
Anybody remember transition’s giddy up suspension
Gt’s idrive?
The list goes on...
Yet by general consencus its not an efficient system- I ve never ridden vpp or dw link.
All ive ever had was horst link Specializeds and single pivots Santa cruzes
 

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I am admittedly not great with noticing the tiny nuances of suspension design, probably because I've spent most of my mtb time on a rigid bike. I can say that I felt a huge difference between Specialized and other horst link bikes. Im sure the Enduro being such a big bike accented that, but I worked at a shop that sold Specialized and rode the Stumpy fairly often and still felt like they were way more active than my Jeffsy.

The biggest difference I have noticed between suspension designs was Switch Infinity from Yeti. I had an SB5 and it was by far the best riding bike I have ever owned. If I could ever get a smokin deal on another Yeti like I did on that bike, I would jump on it. Unfortunately they're just way too expensive for a complete bike. You can build something up from the ground with all of your favorite parts for the cost of a complete Yeti these days.
 

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Very astute- however my rear shock is a rs monarch plus and when I took air can off there were 9 volume reducing bands on it-
I find this shock hard to adjust - its either wallowing in 40% sag or it seems overly harsh in 30%_ this shock was a warranty replacement of the oem “non debbonair “ monarch plus.

The bike feels ponderous to climb compared to my heckler, which is a lowly single pivot with a Regular monarch aircan on it

I have not ridden a bike equipped w/ a Debonair that felt efficient on climbs. Might need to research shock options that have a lower volume air canister. I recently tweaked my 29er for XC duty by running lighter short knobbed tires & firming up the suspension.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I have not ridden a bike equipped w/ a Debonair that felt efficient on climbs. Might need to research shock options that have a lower volume air canister. I recently tweaked my 29er for XC duty by running lighter short knobbed tires & firming up the suspension.
Gotcha- Im new to the whole debonair thing- one thing that really threw me off is that it takes 300 psi just to get 30%sag. Thats out of 350 psi max on the can (!) I weigh 220lbs
As i mentioned it came with all volume reducers installed already so i took 4 off to see if I can get rid of harshness on small bumps. Are you thinking a different shock would work better in that application? Or can I just get a standard air can instead of debonair?
 

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viber_image_2020-08-02_15-26-43.jpg

There's probably a few blokes on here sick of seeing the picture of my dual slayers......


Anyway it serves as an interesting comparison for the purposes of these threads.

My dual slayers are set up slightly differently. One is set up heavy for park and big hits. The other is set up light to pedal to the top of mountains and bomb down.


Light slayer is 800gm lighter than heavy slayer. Most of that weight savings is in the wheels. Ok there's a carbon bar and some TI bolts.

Light slayer feels so more nimble, it climbs better, accelerates better, Overall it is more fun. So..... the best thing you can do to make your bike better uphill is put the bike on a diet. Particularly wheels and tyres. That will make by far the biggest difference! It will be like you have purchased a whole new bike....... Yet you can still bom down the hills.

PS Take that 70mm stem off immediately. That is so 2008.
 

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I like the way DW link(Pivot) bikes climb, VPP are good too. If demo days ever happen again ,that might a good time to try something else.
 

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If a standard air can is available I would go that route first.
I have zero experience with a RS Monarch but wouldn't the debonair with spacers be effectively the same as the normal smaller air can?

Either way fixing pedal bob is ultimately an issue with the suspension design and/or a lack of low speed damping. Trying to use a firmer or more progressive spring rate won't make much of a difference.
 
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