[Warp]

By sixth time in a row Ferrari wound up the Formula 1 Championship.

Michael Schumacher and Rubens Barrichello made another 1-2 in Hungary. Ferrari got this with still five races to go.

MS only needs to win next race while RB do third or less to win his fifth world championship in a row with four races to go.

Only Ann Caro Chausson, Nico Vouilloz or Lance had been so dominant.

I've been a tiffossi since I started watching F1 back in '86 and I'm happy after all those years people called us (the tiffossi) loosers. Call Ferrari loosers now.

BTW... today the Olimpic Comitee declared that F1 racing is not a sport anymore as the FIA does not recognize the Antidoping Board designed by the OC. They have thier own.

Anyway... I don't care what the olimpic comitee has to say about this. In the end, I would never ever be able to see Shcumy running the 110m with hurdles.

 

[RiDE]

Your post doesnt show how Ferrari basically destroyed all opposition this year which included Renault, Williams BMW, McLaren (yes the same company that made everyone's bandwagon supercar) Mercedes, Toyota, Honda...

They thought 2002 was bad well 2004 was a killing and theres still 5 races left.

 

[scorcher seb]

Just to save anyone reading this thread from total boredom (a bit like F1) can I just point out that Ferrari are losers because they don't have any drivers who are passionate MTBers (unlike Jaguar now and Williams next year). Mark Webber has the talent to win with the right car, so I hope he gets that car, even if it is with the team that all the sheep follow. You know ... the one with the red cars.

 

[SpinWheelz]

Ferrari's domination this season has been an acheivement in its own right, sure. But they also got a ton of help along the way in the form of all the other teams just not showing up. This season has been less about how great Ferrari have been, and more about how sucky everyone else has been. The MP4-19B is a marginal step forward, hardly anything to write home about. The FW-26 with its new/old nose was an admission in failure. Renault's campaign hasbeen let down severely by Trulli despite that Monaco win. There's too much distraction going on at BAR now. And the rest of the other teams are right where they've always been.

 

[tl1]

Did people really call you a looser?

 

[Tracerboy]

Ferrari's domination this season has been an acheivement in its own right, sure. But they also got a ton of help along the way in the form of all the other teams just not showing up. This season has been less about how great Ferrari have been, and more about how sucky everyone else has been. The MP4-19B is a marginal step forward, hardly anything to write home about. The FW-26 with its new/old nose was an admission in failure. Renault's campaign hasbeen let down severely by Trulli despite that Monaco win. There's too much distraction going on at BAR now. And the rest of the other teams are right where they've always been.

Well the fact that they couldn't make up the difference should point out the difference between all of them. During the 1998 season when McLaren steamrolled the opposition in the first two races, Ferrari were lapped in both of them. Come Argentina, they had made up most of the gap and can at least challenge one or two of the silver cars. But there is only one Ferrari team, and it seems like no one is able to close the gap.

 

[Tracerboy]

Just to save anyone reading this thread from total boredom (a bit like F1) can I just point out that Ferrari are losers because they don't have any drivers who are passionate MTBers (unlike Jaguar now and Williams next year). Mark Webber has the talent to win with the right car, so I hope he gets that car, even if it is with the team that all the sheep follow. You know ... the one with the red cars.

The red bandwagon is only now. True tifosis were still there when the red cars were sucking monkey balls. Cars were breaking down left and right, internal politics were basically ripping the team apart, but the fans were still there cheering the red cars even if they were in last place.

 

[JmZ]

I just hope that...

By sixth time in a row Ferrari wound up the Formula 1 Championship.

Michael Schumacher and Rubens Barrichello made another 1-2 in Hungary. Ferrari got this with still five races to go.

MS only needs to win next race while RB do third or less to win his fifth world championship in a row with four races to go.

Only Ann Caro Chausson, Nico Vouilloz or Lance had been so dominant.

I've been a tiffossi since I started watching F1 back in '86 and I'm happy after all those years people called us (the tiffossi) loosers. Call Ferrari loosers now.

BTW... today the Olimpic Comitee declared that F1 racing is not a sport anymore as the FIA does not recognize the Antidoping Board designed by the OC. They have thier own.

Anyway... I don't care what the olimpic comitee has to say about this. In the end, I would never ever be able to see Shcumy running the 110m with hurdles.

The dominance of one brand will start to drive away some of the other car companies. It's happened before in other racing circles. Granted there were other factors too, but still can't see those cars anymore.

Think it was Nissan that managed to help kill off the series I'm thinking of. Heck, can't even remember who ran it. Nissan, Porshe, and 'Vettes all ran in the series with prototype cars.

JmZ

 

[Racer9]

I wish Ferrari would stop their dominance. It is so dumb to watch a race if you already know who will come out on top. Their cars are awesome but the other teams need a chance.

BTW I wish they would make the cars so they have to use engines the same size as a Mini's

 

[roadiegonebad]

The dominance of one brand will start to drive away some of the other car companies.

Given the political nature of F1 (at least when I followed more closely) I bet you see some rule changes- to even the field- before a mass exodus from the sport. I mean, sure Ferrari is dominant and getting all the top exposure, but how many can run out and buy a Ferrari? Some of those also-ran mfgers have been in it for a looong time, all the while sucking hard.

 

[RiDE]

I wish Ferrari would stop their dominance. It is so dumb to watch a race if you already know who will come out on top. Their cars are awesome but the other teams need a chance.

BTW I wish they would make the cars so they have to use engines the same size as a Mini's

You mean you wish the other teams would stop Ferrari's dominance.

 

[Warp]

Yes I was called looser...

Back then when the Ferraris were driven by Eddie Irvine and some other one whose name I can't even remember....

I was still a fan after those years when the "Commendatore" Enzo died and Luca Di Montezemolo took over. When Montezemolo started trying to relive the team he was pointed out as he was doing a "witch-hunt".... and he was but he knew what he was doing.

Everybody said MS was dumb to race for Ferrari and that he was too much a pilot for the car (he was coming from two-in-a-row championships with Benneton). People said his career will be over after he would be dumped by Ferrari.

Everybody said ferrari made a dumb decision for choosing the gridgestone tires. The they wouldn't take the benefits of the other team's testing results by choosing a different tire.

I feel surprised now everybody bitshin' on MS 'cause he wouldn't be a champion if it weren't for the amazing car he has. Wake Up, people... he built that car! The Ferrari was total crap when MS took it for the first time. Take Schumacher to Williams or McLaren and in two years from now no matter what changes they do to the regulations he will be a champion again.

I feel surprised now everybody is bitshing about the Ferrari dominance. Did anybody complained when McLaren won 14 out of 16 races??? NO. Did anybody complained when McLaren and Williams were the best cars?? NO.

Ferrari has learnt from the lessons they had took. Last year in Hungary (same race as last) ferrari was humilliated when Schumacher was lapped by the race leader... and as Schumacher said, that humilliation would not be repeated. And they did beat everybody's arse in a race everybody thought Ferrari had not a chance to win.

OTOH... I miss the days when mansell, senna, prost, piquet and other greats were running wheel to wheel. I agree with the opinion that some changes have to appear in order for it would be more interesting. What I don't agree is to degrade F1. I like it 'cause any of those cars accelerate, brake and turn better than anything on this world. They're the pinnacle in cars technology... and it translates to bikes also.

MS and RB have forbbiden to make MTB. It's on their contracts. If they get hurt by doing an extreme sport they can loose races and that doesn't like to Ferrari. Jaguar is another history... Webber wouldn't win a race anyway. He has done nothing for the car.

Years ago the engines were Mini's size (1.5 L)... but they used a turbo (like the Mini) and were doing like +750HP. They were banned as they were reaching promptly the 1000HP barrier. Anyway an F1 engine is letting out like +900BHP being a 3.0L normally aspirated engine. Smaller than the average SUV. BTW the Ferrari is not the more powerful engine... that title goes to the Honda powering the BAR's.

 

[Warp]

The dominance of one brand will start to drive away some of the other car companies. It's happened before in other racing circles. Granted there were other factors too, but still can't see those cars anymore.

Think it was Nissan that managed to help kill off the series I'm thinking of. Heck, can't even remember who ran it. Nissan, Porshe, and 'Vettes all ran in the series with prototype cars.

JmZ

If you're talking about the sport prototypes formula... it was not Nissan. It was Mercedes. They were winning all. And before them it was Porsche who dominated all along the '70's. Peugeot dominated the last to years I guess (directed by Jean Todt now sports director for the Red Horses).

They were two seat, full fairing cars. And the formula was basically endurance. The Le Mans 24 hours were the top of the formula. I guess they're still racing and Audi is winning all now... but id far from being the world formula it was once.

 

[K'Endo]

Yes I was called looser...

Maybe you need more fiber in your diet.

Kn.

 

[SpinWheelz]

"I feel surprised now everybody bitshin' on MS 'cause he wouldn't be a champion if it weren't for the amazing car he has. Wake Up, people... he built that car!"

Now I know that you don't mean that he literally built the car, but I do feel that you give Schumacher far too much credit for the F2004's design that he deserves. In doing so, you also shortchange some of the true genius at Ferrari, i.e. Rory Byrne, Paolo Martinelli and Ross Brawn. This three form the trifecta of unparalleled genius. There is no greater combination than this. That being said, the car is brilliant. So brilliant that it takes far less effort to drive it fast compared to other cars on the grid. But not so brilliant that it could practically drive itself like the Williams FW14B. So yes, the car has loads to do with just how well Schumacher is doing this season. You match a killer with the brain of Ross Brawn, the driving talent on Schumacher and rare flash of brilliance from the world's greatest #2 driver, Barrichello and what you get is this year's French Grand Prix - a convincing demonstration of what it means to be the best team in the world.

That being said, Ferrari are also getting tons of help from the other teams to be so dominant. Like I mentioned before, they all suck by grand prix standards. Williams and McLaren have been embarrassing at best. Toyota should be much better than they really are but aren't - heck, Geoff Willis was able to turn things around at BAR much faster than Mike Gascoyne has at Toyota. Renault has shown that killer aerodynamics alone cannot win you a championship.

Take Schumacher to Williams or McLaren and in two years from now no matter what changes they do to the regulations he will be a champion again.

Maybe, but that's up to Williams or McLaren. He's only as fast as the car's going to take him. Not even Schumacher could've willed the super-flexible McLaren MP4-19 to the finish line. So again, it's not the driver, it's the team.

 

[Hecubus]

I started sort of following F1 in '89 when it was Senna/MacLaren,Honda vs Prost/Ferrari and when mansell drove for Ferrari before he stopped sucking. I remember most of the races pretty vividly when both of them were battling it out till the very end. It had come down to the GP of Japan were most of the Honda employees went to see the race only to see Senna and Prost crash on the first turn. Ferrari came in a close second and from there on it was downhill for like 10 years as I patiently awaited for a comeback

Back then when the Ferraris were driven by Eddie Irvine and some other one whose name I can't even remember....

I was still a fan after those years when the "Commendatore" Enzo died and Luca Di Montezemolo took over. When Montezemolo started trying to relive the team he was pointed out as he was doing a "witch-hunt".... and he was but he knew what he was doing.

Everybody said MS was dumb to race for Ferrari and that he was too much a pilot for the car (he was coming from two-in-a-row championships with Benneton). People said his career will be over after he would be dumped by Ferrari.

Everybody said ferrari made a dumb decision for choosing the gridgestone tires. The they wouldn't take the benefits of the other team's testing results by choosing a different tire.

I feel surprised now everybody bitshin' on MS 'cause he wouldn't be a champion if it weren't for the amazing car he has. Wake Up, people... he built that car! The Ferrari was total crap when MS took it for the first time. Take Schumacher to Williams or McLaren and in two years from now no matter what changes they do to the regulations he will be a champion again.

I feel surprised now everybody is bitshing about the Ferrari dominance. Did anybody complained when McLaren won 14 out of 16 races??? NO. Did anybody complained when McLaren and Williams were the best cars?? NO.

Ferrari has learnt from the lessons they had took. Last year in Hungary (same race as last) ferrari was humilliated when Schumacher was lapped by the race leader... and as Schumacher said, that humilliation would not be repeated. And they did beat everybody's arse in a race everybody thought Ferrari had not a chance to win.

OTOH... I miss the days when mansell, senna, prost, piquet and other greats were running wheel to wheel. I agree with the opinion that some changes have to appear in order for it would be more interesting. What I don't agree is to degrade F1. I like it 'cause any of those cars accelerate, brake and turn better than anything on this world. They're the pinnacle in cars technology... and it translates to bikes also.

MS and RB have forbbiden to make MTB. It's on their contracts. If they get hurt by doing an extreme sport they can loose races and that doesn't like to Ferrari. Jaguar is another history... Webber wouldn't win a race anyway. He has done nothing for the car.

Years ago the engines were Mini's size (1.5 L)... but they used a turbo (like the Mini) and were doing like +750HP. They were banned as they were reaching promptly the 1000HP barrier. Anyway an F1 engine is letting out like +900BHP being a 3.0L normally aspirated engine. Smaller than the average SUV. BTW the Ferrari is not the more powerful engine... that title goes to the Honda powering the BAR's.

 

[Warp]

Now I know that you don't mean that he literally built the car, but I do feel that you give Schumacher far too much credit for the F2004's design that he deserves. In doing so, you also shortchange some of the true genius at Ferrari, i.e. Rory Byrne, Paolo Martinelli and Ross Brawn. This three form the trifecta of unparalleled genius. There is no greater combination than this. That being said, the car is brilliant. So brilliant that it takes far less effort to drive it fast compared to other cars on the grid. But not so brilliant that it could practically drive itself like the Williams FW14B. So yes, the car has loads to do with just how well Schumacher is doing this season. You match a killer with the brain of Ross Brawn, the driving talent on Schumacher and rare flash of brilliance from the world's greatest #2 driver, Barrichello and what you get is this year's French Grand Prix - a convincing demonstration of what it means to be the best team in the world.

Maybe, but that's up to Williams or McLaren. He's only as fast as the car's going to take him. Not even Schumacher could've willed the super-flexible McLaren MP4-19 to the finish line. So again, it's not the driver, it's the team.

I totally agree with you. My point was that even with the best engineers you can't just have the fastest car. Not only you need a driver who could take it to the finish line but you need a driver you could give some feedback to the engineer about how the car behaves. Since Alain Prost left, Schumacher is the only driver on the grid who can tell the engineers if the car goes well or not. You gotta credit Schumacher for that. Furthermost, it serves for nothing to Brawn to plan a genius race if he doesn't have a driver who can play by the book or can not evaluate if the plan is fitting the race or not. I didn't mean MS is the most important thing in Ferrari but is a major key factor in Ferrari's success.

Said by Sir Frank Williams when asked who is the driver who has impressed him the most: "Michael Schumacher. He pushes himself and the team to a whole new level, he inspires them"

OTOH... Everyone at Ferrari (Todt, Brawn, Byrne, Martinelli, Barrichello, you name it) are teaching the rest of the teams what "Winning Will" means. At the end... I would give full credit to Luca Di Montezemolo for building such a team... remember how italians complained for bringing in Todt and put him at the head of the team???

 

[SpinWheelz]

Let's not get too carried away here. For every upside there's a downside, too. No other team in the paddock plays the political card quite like Ferrari in order to steer outcomes in their favor. And that's simply because they can, and that no other team wields as much power as Ferrari do.

 

[Warp]

You're right...

I would blame it on the Tifosi.

No other team now and before attracts so much people to the TV screens and to the tracks as Ferrari. This is how Ferrari can push the FIA.

And yes, sometimes I think RB should be given the chance for open fight but as you say Ferrari is a vertical team where opinions come second to orders.

Do the outcomes justify their methods?? Time is proving they're on the right track.

 

[dirtdrop]

It's All About the Car

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