[TimoA]

Looking for insight and opinions to help choosing between these bikes:

Loki 27+ H10 ? Orbea

Specialized Bicycle Components

This is what I've gathered:

• Loki is 2x10 with 22/26 crankset, the Fuse has 1x10 with wide range cassette. I would prefer the latter, but this is mostly from limited experience and gearing calculators.
• Loki has a Fox 32 fork which IAUI is pretty good for 2016, The Manitou in Fuse is a lesser known entity without local service centers around.
• The Loki has competent Shimano parts set while the Fuse is more of a mixed lot. Not sure if that really matters though.
• Loki has Orbea branded rims and Maxxis Colossus EXO TR rubber, Fuse has WTB Scrapers and Ground Controls. Apparently both are tubeless friendly setups. Probably a draw.
• Geometry numbers are almost ridiculously similar between the bikes. Loki might have a lower standover height due to the top tube contours. Loki wins?
• The Fuse comes with the TranzX YSP03 dropper of which little is known (but some good feedback). The Loki has the Digit seatpost. I will eventually want a "proper" (KS ETen might suffice though) dropper but the Digit post could be great in winter.
• The Loki in Black looks badass and feeled great on a quick spin. I've yet to see the Fuse in person.
• The list price on the Loki is about 300€ less

Soo, The Loki is cheaper and maybe cooler looking but might need some upgrades (dropper, 1x drivetrain). The Fuse is maybe a more complete package but with more unknowns in the parts selection. What do you guys think?

 

[prj71]

Have you considered this one as well?

http://www.cannondale.com/en/USA/Bike/ProductFamily?id=d70ddf2e-db0f-4c90-9e8e-7c52692c4a3b

 

[TimoA]

Beast of the East 2 is cool but probably beyond my budget - and kinda expensive for what you get anyway.

 

[cykelk]

Your summary is quite good. A few of my personal notes:

Drivetrain: The 2x XT / SLX on the Loki is a good kit.
Brakes: Shimano on the Loki over DB on the Spec any day.
Wheels: I like WTB rims (Spec), don't know much about the Loki wheelset. Never had anything good to say about Spec hubs.
Fork: Newer Manitou stuff is very well regarded around here.
Dropper: I wouldn't necessarily consider an unknown drop post to be a positive thing. It might work out, or it might be a huge PITA. The KS eTen is great - rode one for quite a while. A bit heavy but functionally excellent.

Probably doesn't make things any easier. If it were my money I'd go with the Orbea, but I like Orbea bikes and my Orbea LBS.

 

[kyttyra]

The Loki seems to have 170 mm cranks regardless of frame size.

Stupid little god

 

[markopic]

I am also considering Loki to use as a winter commuting bike (mostly on snow) and during summer for light trails. I have also considered Specialized Fuse, but it seems to me that Loki is much better deal due to components and support for front derailleur (Fuse is limited to 1x setup). I am not sure which Loki configuration is "good enough" - should I go for LTD of H10. It seems to me that major open questions are:

- difference between Fox 32 and 34 forks? Is there significant difference between them?
- are M506 brakes sufficient? They are below SLX level
- is 1x setup suitable for road use (mostly on snow, but also on a way to trail during summer)
- are Orbea 40mm rims any good?
- is the weight (about 14kg) too much?

Many thanks for the help,

Marko

 

[TimoA]

Marko,

In your case I would definitely go for H10. I don't think Fox 34 would offer anything over 32 and if you are using it in winter and you live somewhere where it is freezing, the Reverb seatpost could cause you quite bit of harm.

I would not sweat about the brakes, I've used M355:s on trails and lived to type this.

 

[TimoA]

Just learned that a Absoluteblack 28t oval chainring could, at least in theory, give almost the same 1X gearing range than the 30t/11-40 in the Fuse and only lose 1-2 highest gears on the 22t granny - using the standard cassette. For a bit over 50€ shipped. Fascinating.

 

[markopic]

Marko,

In your case I would definitely go for H10. I don't think Fox 34 would offer anything over 32 and if you are using it in winter and you live somewhere where it is freezing, the Reverb seatpost could cause you quite bit of harm.

I would not sweat about the brakes, I've used M355:s on trails and lived to type this.

TimoA, many thanks for answering. I have ordered H10 from my LBS, it seems to me as a pretty decent bike for the money. I have tried H10 in the shop, and I think that the brakes are ok. I will use the bike in factory config, and update brakes or maybe groupset to 2x11 if needed.

Thanks again,

 

[GottaGo]

Nine months later, what's your verdict on your Loki?

TimoA, many thanks for answering. I have ordered H10 from my LBS, it seems to me as a pretty decent bike for the money. I have tried H10 in the shop, and I think that the brakes are ok. I will use the bike in factory config, and update brakes or maybe groupset to 2x11 if needed.

Thanks again,

Hi,
Did you get the bike out on the trails? Were you satisfied with the brakes or need to upgrade? Did you stick with the 2x10 drive train?
With the riding season winding down, what's your verdict on the Loki?

 

[markopic]

Hi,
Did you get the bike out on the trails? Were you satisfied with the brakes or need to upgrade? Did you stick with the 2x10 drive train?
With the riding season winding down, what's your verdict on the Loki?

Yes I did. I like it much more than I thought I would, it was really a pleasant surprise. I thought I would use it for winter/snow riding, but I use it several times a week. Frame is the best part of the bike, geometry is really perfect for my type of riding. Maxxis Chronicle 3.0 tires are really good for gravel/light trails. On my version I have Fox 32 Fit4 fork with 100mm travel, which is good, but I wish it would have more travel. Components (SLX/XT 10 speed drivetrain) are good, I feel almost better than 11spd XT on my other bike due to lighter action on shifters. I have ridden about 1000 miles on it without any problems. Brakes are ok, nothing special, but they get the job done. When I started riding, I wanted to replace them, but I could not find any better brake available with I-SpecB mount (SLX shifters), so I started using them, and after a while I have adjusted to them, so I do no longer think about upgrade. Compared to XT, brakes are not as good, but they work.
In conclusion, I really like the bike, I only wish that I get one of the 2017 models with better fork.
Hope this helps,

 

[TimoA]

I've been mostly happy with mine. I got a large H10 and fitted it with a Raceface dropper post, 50mm stem (i'm about 5'9 tall) and set it up tubeless from the get go. I ride rough natural trails (think BC without big mountains) with it. Here's my observations.

The Shimano 2X10 drivetrain has worked almost flawlessly but both the big ring and and the lowest two gears are only usable on the odd fire road. 1X with a 28t oval chainring might be the optimum setup for me but there is no room to fit one on the granny gear position. For now I'm sticking with the 2X.

The Fox 32 120mm fork is a peach. I set the sag at around 20-25% and forgot about it. I always run it full open.

The Maxxis Chronicle tyres rolled well and were nice on anything firm but predictably sucked on mud and soft sand. Replaced those with Nobby Nics for now. Tubeless setups have been okay with just a cheapo floor pump.

The Bottom bracket height is low and I've had my fair share of pedal strikes. I've toyed with the idea of getting a 29+ front wheel (the Fox fork should clear one) to get a bit more clearance and make the bike even more badass

As far as hardtails go, the bike is probably the one of the most capable ones for rough trails. That being said, I'm probably getting a FS bike at some point. While the plus tires definitely help a lot, I'm still getting pretty thoroughly battered by the terrain.

 

[markopic]

The Shimano 2X10 drivetrain has worked almost flawlessly but both the big ring and and the lowest two gears are only usable on the odd fire road. 1X with a 28t oval chainring might be the optimum setup for me but there is no room to fit one on the granny gear position. For now I'm sticking with the 2X.

The Fox 32 120mm fork is a peach. I set the sag at around 20-25% and forgot about it. I always run it full open.

The Maxxis Chronicle tyres rolled well and were nice on anything firm but predictably sucked on mud and soft sand. Replaced those with Nobby Nics for now. Tubeless setups have been okay with just a cheapo floor pump.

The Bottom bracket height is low and I've had my fair share of pedal strikes. I've toyed with the idea of getting a 29+ front wheel (the Fox fork should clear one) to get a bit more clearance and make the bike even more badass

As far as hardtails go, the bike is probably the one of the most capable ones for rough trails. That being said, I'm probably getting a FS bike at some point. While the plus tires definitely help a lot, I'm still getting pretty thoroughly battered by the terrain.

I am also considering 1x setup, but the drivetrain works well for me, so I do not know how much would I gain with significant investment - I was thinking about 1x11 Shimano, because Sram requires XD driver, but it would require almost everything new. Crankset can be reused, but it is the poorest component of the drivetrain, so it should also be replaced.

I do not run tubeless, I see no problem with factory setup, but I would like to try.
I have small frame, and so far did not have any problems with low bottom bracket.

I liked Loki so much that I have also tried full suspension plus bike - Cube Stereo 150 with Nobby Nics tires. Rear suspension really helps a lot, vibrations are significantly smoothered, and the bike is much more stable on fast descents. However, compared to full suspension bike, Loki still feels great.

 

[TimoA]

I would definitely recommend tubeless - the original inner tubes weighed around 350 grams a piece! The rims were taped tubeless from the factory so all that was needed was tubeless valves and maybe 80ml of Stan's per tire.

 

[markopic]

I would definitely recommend tubeless - the original inner tubes weighed around 350 grams a piece! The rims were taped tubeless from the factory so all that was needed was tubeless valves and maybe 80ml of Stan's per tire.

Many thanks! I have converted my wheels to tubeless as you suggested. Happy to report that original tubes are really heavy, and that the rims were taped with tubeless tape from the factory, so really no problem with conversion, except the significant effort required to separate tire from the rim to remove tubes

What tire pressure do you recommend for tubeless Maxxis Chronicle (3.0)? I have ridden at around 20psi, I would like to go lower pressure, but I am not sure how much would I lose due to increased rolling resistance.

Thanks again!

 

[TimoA]

I think I went as low as 12 psi with good results (I weigh about 80kg). Take your time and experiment with the pressures, it's time well spent.

I found that the easiest way to break the bead is to lean the upper edge of the rim against an elevated doorstep, grabbing the tire from the highest point with both hands and push the tire bead inward with both thumbs.

 

[EBG 18T]

Markopic - I would bring your psi down to 14-15psi and see how you like it. I run my 27.5x3's at 14.5psi. I found that to be my sweet spot for my riding style.

 

[950sm07]

I bought a H30+ this spring and loving it! Great geometry and so far I haven't seen a better looking 27,5+ hardtail. It came with SR Raidon fork but I found a good deal and upgraded with a 140mm Fox34 which made it an animal. The 2x10 worked out perfect because this way I can use the insane grip when climbing. I am just not sure about the wheel set I had to take the freehub apart because the pawls were not engaging properly at the same time and rims are like soft cheese thinking on upgrading them.

 

[markopic]

I am just not sure about the wheel set I had to take the freehub apart because the pawls were not engaging properly at the same time and rims are like soft cheese thinking on upgrading them.

How did you open the freehub body? I would like to service mine, I have been using it whole year in all kinds of weather, but I can not remove the axle from the freehub body. After I remove both screws (disc and cassette already removed), I can only move axle about 1" towards drive side and no longer. No matter how I try, I can not remove the axle from the wheel.
Many thanks for the help!