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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I have an 04 Salty with a 5" rocker. I am only able to get 3.75" of measured travel out of the thing. The 2" stroke shock is only stroking 1.5". The proper sag of .5" is being used. And the last two rides I did where I measured the thing were very rocky, lots of ledges. I lowered the pressure to 50psi and that is when I can get the full 2" of stroke. The shock is a 2006 Float RP3. It was bought new aftermarket, not OEM. It is the correct length.

Lets say that yea the shock is progressive and the further in travel you get the stiffer it gets. Whats the point? Shock is going in the trash for turning my 5" bike into a 3.75 incher.

One question I have is do the Ventana Fox shocks come with any special valving? Or maybe the shock I bought came with special valving or something.

Thanks
 

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RoundRockTJ said:
So I have an 04 Salty with a 5" rocker. I am only able to get 3.75" of measured travel out of the thing. The 2" stroke shock is only stroking 1.5". The proper sag of .5" is being used. And the last two rides I did where I measured the thing were very rocky, lots of ledges. I lowered the pressure to 50psi and that is when I can get the full 2" of stroke. The shock is a 2006 Float RP3. It was bought new aftermarket, not OEM. It is the correct length.

Lets say that yea the shock is progressive and the further in travel you get the stiffer it gets. Whats the point? Shock is going in the trash for turning my 5" bike into a 3.75 incher.

One question I have is do the Ventana Fox shocks come with any special valving? Or maybe the shock I bought came with special valving or something.

Thanks
I don't have an answer - just the same question! I have an 06 Salty that came with a 06 Float RP3. I'm still trying to dial everything in (only 4 rides so far), but I'm also getting only 1.5" stroke, also after a fast, very rocky downhill that should have gotten pretty much full travel (and got almost 5" of travel out of my Talas fork). I was going to start dropping pressure to see if I would get more travel - I've been using 150 psi (I weigh about 180 lbs fully suited up).

I wondering if others are getting more travel, and how. That said, I've been really pleased with how the bike is handling the rocky trails around here, and the platform on the RP3 is amazing! But if it can do better, I'd like to know!
 

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Push

agoura_biker said:
I don't have an answer - just the same question! I have an 06 Salty that came with a 06 Float RP3. I'm still trying to dial everything in (only 4 rides so far), but I'm also getting only 1.5" stroke, also after a fast, very rocky downhill that should have gotten pretty much full travel (and got almost 5" of travel out of my Talas fork). I was going to start dropping pressure to see if I would get more travel - I've been using 150 psi (I weigh about 180 lbs fully suited up).

I wondering if others are getting more travel, and how. That said, I've been really pleased with how the bike is handling the rocky trails around here, and the platform on the RP3 is amazing! But if it can do better, I'd like to know!
Yes, it is throwing more money at a problem, but the money you spend will actually fix the problem. Send your RP3 to PUSH and you should be extremely pleased with the result. I know I was..

op
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
ohpossum said:
Yes, it is throwing more money at a problem, but the money you spend will actually fix the problem. Send your RP3 to PUSH and you should be extremely pleased with the result. I know I was..

op
So did you have the same issue of not getting the full 2" of stroke before you had it pushed? And now you are getting the full 2"?

I am trying to find out how unique or common this problem is.
 

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RoundRockTJ said:
So did you have the same issue of not getting the full 2" of stroke before you had it pushed? And now you are getting the full 2"?

I am trying to find out how unique or common this problem is.
I have the same problem with mine. Its a 2005 X-5 with RP3 and I never get more than 1.75" out of it. Had it Pushed and it feels way better but still only 1.75". The suspension feels bottomless but ya gotta wonder.
 

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The one and only gripe...

This is the one and only gripe I have with the HH125. I can't even say it's a HH issue, It's an 06 Ventana design issue. I've talked to Charles, Sherwood via email, and the guys at Push.

I was getting the exact same 3.75 inches from my RP3. and it frustrated the **** out of me. Charles told me that he had no problem getting full travel with the RP3, Sherwood recommended I increase the sag to 30-33%, and the Guys at Push said that they could tune it so that it achieved more thru-travel.

I have sent it off to Push, and although that improved the feel of the shock in many ways, the thru-travel was only slightly effected. That combined with the 33% sag that Sherwood recommended, I'd say I now get a hair over 4" on a consistent basis.

The only time I have gotten almost full travel, I had to wheelie a 3' washout that came on suddenly on the trail I was riding at speed. The rear wheel didn't clear, and slammed into the other side.

It just looks like the rising rate of the frame design is to aggressive for the RP3 or coil shocks with bottom out control like DHX 5.0 Coil. I guess that's because the bottom out control can't be completely tuned out.

Darren at Push mentioned that if all the things I have tried aren't working that the only thing that will help is larger air volume. The DHX Air has higher volume, but also has the bottom out control, so that most likely wont allow full travel. The High Volume RP3 would probably be great on this frame, but It seems to be an OEM item, that can't be bought aftermarket.

I guess for now we have to wait until something like the High Volume RP3 becomes available. Otherwise we're should be looking for an old Vanilla coil.. Bummer either way, because it's going to cost us early 06 adopters more$$$.

Again.. That's my ONLY gripe with the HH125/06 Ventana design.

New buyers... Pick the most linear shock for your frame without bottom out resistance.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Put the 4" rockers on and still only 1.5" of measured stroke travel. Thats only 3" of travel.

How about everybody responds with what year and model shock they are running and their measured travel. So far it looks like everyone has an RP3.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Busta Rims said:
It just looks like the rising rate of the frame design is to aggressive for the RP3 or coil shocks with bottom out control like DHX 5.0 Coil. I guess that's because the bottom out control can't be completely tuned out. Again.. That's my ONLY gripe with the HH125/06 Ventana design.

New buyers... Pick the most linear shock for your frame without bottom out control.
My bike is an 04 with a straight rate design, it is not a rising rate like the 05+.

So have you tried the DHX Air or DHX coil? How do you know one of those would not be better?
 

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RoundRockTJ said:
My bike is an 04 with a straight rate design, it is not a rising rate like the 05+.

So have you tried the DHX Air or DHX coil? How do you know one of those would not be better?
I have not tried either. I was talking to Darren about the soon to be released Pushed DHX-Coil shocks, and he told me not to go that route. That the Bottom out resistance feature can't be completely eliminated, so it will still ramp up toward the end of the stroke. The larger volume of the DHX Air, will probably help a bit, but it still has the same bottom out resistance feature. I also don't like what I have read about the DHX Air blowing through it's midstroke either.

***I was wrong in how I described the bottom out feature of the DHX's requiring air. That feature is just controlled by a dial***
 

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My '06 Salty just shipped....

with an '06 RP3 so i guess I should only expect 3.5" of travel. When I test rode an '05 Salty, the owner did point out that I had about 1/2" stroke left after riding and said I could drop the pressure, but the suspension did feel bottomless. As long as the ride feels good, who cares if you are getting 3.5" or 4" travel? If I weigh 215 lbs with gear and the RP3 in the middle setting, what would be a good starting pressure for me to get 12-15mm sag (~20%) or should I go for 15-20mm sag??
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I looked into it a little more and it seems like this problem is more common than you would think across many framesets. I really doubt it is a frame design thing. It looks more like a small volume air shock thing. I think most people would agree that even though the bikes might not be getting full travel it feels damn good. It makes you wonder what it would feel like with the full amount of travel. You also have to wonder how many people never actually measured their real travel
 

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RoundRockTJ said:
I looked into it a little more and it seems like this problem is more common than you would think across many framesets. I really doubt it is a frame design thing. It looks more like a small volume air shock thing. I think most people would agree that even though the bikes might not be getting full travel it feels damn good. It makes you wonder what it would feel like with the full amount of travel. You also have to wonder how many people never actually measured their real travel
I'm sure you are right about frame design vs. shock design. And my Salty feels great downhill, full travel or not. If there is a way to get a bit more travel, though, it would be nice - maybe a different shock is the answer.
 

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No problem with my PUSHed RP3 getting full travel !

I've been setting my sag about 30% in the plush or lightest propedal setting and have had the o ring nearly slide off the shock body with aggressive enough riding and conditions ! Then when I do want better bob control or less shock movement while pedaling I use the middle or full propedal setting which is exactly why I like the shock ( it works ) ! Best air shock I have ever owned for my intentions with the Salt ! I would like to try a DHX Air sometime but feel I'd rather use it on the Bruja but my Pushed Vanilla RC coil rear shock performs way to sweet to justify the change on the Bruja ! TIG.
 

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full travel

I have a 05 x-5 5inch rp3. I have sag set at about 30%, maybe a tiuch more. This seems to supple the suspension a bit more than a 25% sag. I still do not get full travel as well but it gets very close, about 1/8 to 1/4 inch left on the shaft from the o-ring. I will be sending the rp3 to push this winter and will post later next year with any differences. Good luck.
 

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Thoughts

Back in 00, I had a salty with a stock float R shock. (bushing salty, AH light, and stiff, still wish sherwood was doing the bushing thing).

Regardless, with the non-propedal shocks on that salty one of my problems was that it bottomed too easy regardless of how I set it up, it also tended to wallow in it's travel)

Fast forward to late 03 when I picked up my 04 salty. One of the first things I noticed was that a pro-pedal type shock helped in the wallowing and that the stock float pro pedal rode pretty well but wasn't "quite right".

Sent it to PUSH for treatment in early 04 - man that shock rode well. Didn't handle square edged bumps great, but otherwise it was progressive, resisted bobbing and bottoming, but I did get full travel.

So, for 05 I sent the same shock to PUSH for the new piston and a yearly tune up.

Upon getting it back I immediately noticed that I just couldn't bottom the shock without running more than 40% sag!

I tried adjusting pressures like mad for a week or so. I called PUSH. They asked me if I could run an AVA chamber on the shock. So, I did. Immediately I was able again to get full travel, running the AVA at only about 40% of volume (basically mimicked the volume on a RP3). The new PUSH VX piston is designed for a larger air volume I believe.

No problems all season long (other than I didn't really want to run the AVA if not needed).

However, for those of you on 05 and newer salty's, my belief is that the rate is slightly more rising and progressive than my 04 salty. So, it makes sense to me that people are having problems getting full travel even with the RP3 and PUSH treatment.

Not sure if this provides any solutions, but possibly an explanation for some of you. I think that the newer salty's still maintain a low leverage ratio with a slightly more progressive, and rising rate. So the bottomless travel feeling makes some sense, as does the difficulty in getting full travel. Seems to me a more linear shock with a higher air volume makes some sense.

My guess is that a RP3 high volume would ride GREAT on the new saltys. Maybe Sherwood could order some up? I'd be real interested to hear how that rides.

Plus, I'd like to see a HH125X with double butted tubing and a 4-5 rocker... that would be a tasty ride.
 

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Green Giant said:
Back in 00, I had a salty with a stock float R shock. (bushing salty, AH light, and stiff, still wish sherwood was doing the bushing thing).

Regardless, with the non-propedal shocks on that salty one of my problems was that it bottomed too easy regardless of how I set it up, it also tended to wallow in it's travel)

Fast forward to late 03 when I picked up my 04 salty. One of the first things I noticed was that a pro-pedal type shock helped in the wallowing and that the stock float pro pedal rode pretty well but wasn't "quite right".

Sent it to PUSH for treatment in early 04 - man that shock rode well. Didn't handle square edged bumps great, but otherwise it was progressive, resisted bobbing and bottoming, but I did get full travel.

So, for 05 I sent the same shock to PUSH for the new piston and a yearly tune up.

Upon getting it back I immediately noticed that I just couldn't bottom the shock without running more than 40% sag!

I tried adjusting pressures like mad for a week or so. I called PUSH. They asked me if I could run an AVA chamber on the shock. So, I did. Immediately I was able again to get full travel, running the AVA at only about 40% of volume (basically mimicked the volume on a RP3). The new PUSH VX piston is designed for a larger air volume I believe.

No problems all season long (other than I didn't really want to run the AVA if not needed).

However, for those of you on 05 and newer salty's, my belief is that the rate is slightly more rising and progressive than my 04 salty. So, it makes sense to me that people are having problems getting full travel even with the RP3 and PUSH treatment.

Not sure if this provides any solutions, but possibly an explanation for some of you. I think that the newer salty's still maintain a low leverage ratio with a slightly more progressive, and rising rate. So the bottomless travel feeling makes some sense, as does the difficulty in getting full travel. Seems to me a more linear shock with a higher air volume makes some sense.

My guess is that a RP3 high volume would ride GREAT on the new saltys. Maybe Sherwood could order some up? I'd be real interested to hear how that rides.
Interesting observations. Is there a way to retrofit an RP3 for more volume? I like the pedaling platform on my shock. And what light shocks might have a more linear rate?
 
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