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Mtbr
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am looking at replacing the two bikes I have with one. I am looking at the Vassago Jabberwocky and the Origin-8 Scout. They both weigh about 5lbs, and they both have sliding dropouts. That is pretty much where the similarities end. The Vassago has 17.9 inch Chainstay's, and the Origin-8 claims 16.75 inch. This bike will be run rigid for the most part. The Vassago would use the ODIS fork, and the Origin-8 would use the Blade fork. The Vassago has clearance for a 2.3" tire, the Origin-8 a large 2.1". The Vassago's H/A is 71 degrees, and the Origin-8 is 72 degrees. The Origin-8 has more stand over. I will be using this build as an AM bike. I will be doing 3' drops, jumps, log rides, etc. The wheel build will be Hope ll/Halo Freedom to put it in perspective. The Jabberwocky might also use a Fox fork on occasion. I am looking for first hand experiences of riding these bikes hard, and rough. I need to know which of these bikes will be more enjoyable, and take more abuse.
Thanks,
Derek
 

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dbo43867 said:
I am looking for first hand experiences of riding these bikes hard, and rough. I need to know which of these bikes will be more enjoyable, and take more abuse.
Only you can tell which is more enjoyable. The ride quality will be remarkably different on those bikes, however.

For stunts, I would favor the Origin-8, but that is my preference. I would anticipate it to be much more nimble. A skilled rider can ride either well, and it comes down to preference.
 

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P.A.G.A.N.
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The Scout is awesome. Very nimble with the short stays. The long top tube allows you to run a very short stem (65mm on mine) and still have plenty of cockpit room. I run Flow rims on Hope II's with 8" rotors and it rips. I've used both a Soul Cycles and Niner rigid fork on it. They are a bit longer than most rigid forks at 485 and 490mm which brings the BB up and makes the steering just right IMO. The standover is also very generous giving you lots of room for body english and screw ups. If you run the stays at about 17.1 you have a lot more room for a meatier tire without noticing much difference in pulling the front end up. I had a bike with 17.9 stays previously and didn't like it all for techy stuff.

 

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Mtbr
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
sportcult said:
The Scout is awesome. Very nimble with the short stays. The long top tube allows you to run a very short stem (65mm on mine) and still have plenty of cockpit room. I run Flow rims on Hope II's with 8" rotors and it rips. I've used both a Soul Cycles and Niner rigid fork on it. They are a bit longer than most rigid forks at 485 and 490mm which brings the BB up and makes the steering just right IMO. The standover is also very generous giving you lots of room for body english and screw ups. If you run the stays at about 17.1 you have a lot more room for a meatier tire without noticing much difference in pulling the front end up. I had a bike with 17.9 stays previously and didn't like it all for techy stuff.

Thank you, this really helped. Did you try Origin-8's Blade fork? What are your reasons for going with the Soul fork?
 

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Mtbr
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
sportcult said:
The Scout is awesome. Very nimble with the short stays. The long top tube allows you to run a very short stem (65mm on mine) and still have plenty of cockpit room. I run Flow rims on Hope II's with 8" rotors and it rips. I've used both a Soul Cycles and Niner rigid fork on it. They are a bit longer than most rigid forks at 485 and 490mm which brings the BB up and makes the steering just right IMO. The standover is also very generous giving you lots of room for body english and screw ups. If you run the stays at about 17.1 you have a lot more room for a meatier tire without noticing much difference in pulling the front end up. I had a bike with 17.9 stays previously and didn't like it all for techy stuff.

Thank you, this really helped. Did you try Origin-8's Blade fork? What are your reasons for going with the Soul fork?
 

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MMcG said:
If any of that drop type stuff involves doing wheelie drops you may enjoy the shorter chainstays on the Origin 8 - just something to think about.
I dunno- I thought this too when I bought my Jabberwocky. I found the Jabber is not that hard to wheelie/loft/wheelie drop once you get used to it. There is a short adjustment period if you are used to a bike with shorter stays.
 

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I have a Scout right now and really like it. I have it setup with a mid length fork as I am racing it and like a little quicker handling. Plus I am shorter at about 5'8". Cockpit length wise I also prefer this frame. I rode a Monocog frame and fork setup over the winter. The top tube measurements as well as fork offset and chainstay length are pretty similar to the Jabberwocky (small Vassago vs. Medium Redline). In contrast I really did enjoy the longer wheel base for stability over the winter seeing as most of our roads and sidewalks were snow covered for weeks on end.

I did a good bit of riding on the Origin8 in early winter and it was pretty good but was lacking in the tire clearance department. If you are looking at running anything wider than a short knobbed 2.3 (Exiwolf, Jones XR) forget it. We are talking tight clearance with the wheel all the way back in the drops. I had Exiwolfs on the Monocog and had at least 5mm of clearance on each side.

Don't rule out the Soul Cycles Dillinger or the On One Inbred either. Both can be had for a steal of a price right now. $250 for the On One with headset and $245 plus shipping for the Soul. Both good options depending on what you are looking for. My money just went for the Scout as it was a good option at the time. There is always a purpose and terrain for each bike. In my case I will be getting a frame for my winter setup with longer stays and greater tire clearance and just swap all my parts over before the snow hits.
 

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I went with the Soul fork because it was longer and it cost $35. Super solid fork, handled great. The Niner fork is a little more compliant over the high frequency stuff. I don't feel that the steering is particularly slow like it is with the same forks on other frames I've had.

There is a new version of the Scout frame coming out. You can get it in aluminum right now as a (cheap) complete bike. It uses a chainstay yoke to increase tire clearance. Strangely though, it looks like the new wishbone seatstays reduce the generous clearance that was there before. Supposedly the steel version will be available once the current model sells through...
 

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dbo43867 said:
I am looking at replacing the two bikes I have with one. I am looking at the Vassago Jabberwocky and the Origin-8 Scout. They both weigh about 5lbs, and they both have sliding dropouts. That is pretty much where the similarities end. The Vassago has 17.9 inch Chainstay's, and the Origin-8 claims 16.75 inch. This bike will be run rigid for the most part. The Vassago would use the ODIS fork, and the Origin-8 would use the Blade fork. The Vassago has clearance for a 2.3" tire, the Origin-8 a large 2.1". The Vassago's H/A is 71 degrees, and the Origin-8 is 72 degrees. The Origin-8 has more stand over. I will be using this build as an AM bike. I will be doing 3' drops, jumps, log rides, etc. The wheel build will be Hope ll/Halo Freedom to put it in perspective. The Jabberwocky might also use a Fox fork on occasion. I am looking for first hand experiences of riding these bikes hard, and rough. I need to know which of these bikes will be more enjoyable, and take more abuse.
Thanks,
Derek
I ride a Jabberwocky rigid with a carbon fork.

The Op Ti has the sliding dropouts, the Jabber just has track fork ends.

I've never had trouble wheelie dropping the bike. Of course the carbon fork and bars make the front end very light but still... no trouble at all to get the front wheel up. Long chainstays help immensely with climbing also.

I ride the s#!t out of this bike. It gets ridden about 5 days a week and I ride it just as hard as my old 5" travel bike, if not harder. It's taken everything I can throw at it and as far as I've seen is an extremely strong frame. One look at the welds and overall construction and you can really tell this bike is well put together. The Jabber also feels great ripping down a trail. It's extremely nimble and easy to throw around at will. I love it. Can't speak for the Origin but I can say that when/if I'm able to kill this one, I'll definitely be buying another.

If I were you, I'd at least test ride one and see what you think.

Good Luck! :thumbsup:
 

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Yea Baby!!

7daysaweek said:
I ride a Jabberwocky rigid with a carbon fork.

The Op Ti has the sliding dropouts, the Jabber just has track fork ends.

I've never had trouble wheelie dropping the bike. Of course the carbon fork and bars make the front end very light but still... no trouble at all to get the front wheel up. Long chainstays help immensely with climbing also.

I ride the s#!t out of this bike. It gets ridden about 5 days a week and I ride it just as hard as my old 5" travel bike, if not harder. It's taken everything I can throw at it and as far as I've seen is an extremely strong frame. One look at the welds and overall construction and you can really tell this bike is well put together. The Jabber also feels great ripping down a trail. It's extremely nimble and easy to throw around at will. I love it. Can't speak for the Origin but I can say that when/if I'm able to kill this one, I'll definitely be buying another.

If I were you, I'd at least test ride one and see what you think.

Good Luck! :thumbsup:
Go go go Jabberwocky.48 hours and counting till my wheels get here,and than it's off to go do what my friend 7daysaweek is having sooo much fun doing....Good stuff 7days,thanks for the post..CF..
 

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sportcult said:
The Scout is awesome. Very nimble with the short stays. The long top tube allows you to run a very short stem (65mm on mine) and still have plenty of cockpit room. I run Flow rims on Hope II's with 8" rotors and it rips. I've used both a Soul Cycles and Niner rigid fork on it. They are a bit longer than most rigid forks at 485 and 490mm which brings the BB up and makes the steering just right IMO. The standover is also very generous giving you lots of room for body english and screw ups. If you run the stays at about 17.1 you have a lot more room for a meatier tire without noticing much difference in pulling the front end up. I had a bike with 17.9 stays previously and didn't like it all for techy stuff.
Sportcult,
I am interested in the Origin 8 scout.
In a post, you mentioned you can use 2.1 tires. Can you then push the wheel all the way upfront ?
What is the effective top tube length (horizontal) with such a laid-back seat tube angle ? Did you have to compensate with a shorter stem than you'd usually use ?
And if it is not too much, How tall are you ? What inseam ? and what frame size is it ?
Eric
 
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