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Discussion Starter · #81 ·
dRjOn said:
from the initial posts, you had an issue with the trail. did the fork get altered?

any hints as to what you are planning in terms of exploratory rides on it?
Nothing has changed with the fork. I need to ride it more on soft snow before deciding if it needs altering. I'll probably install a Hopey damper as well, which may entirely negate the issues I was having on hardpack.

Hints? Cold, remote, snowy places...

MC
 

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TRACKDADDY
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Mikesee I just know put two and two together... The Moots did it seeing as how I just finished reading the article about it in Dirt Rag... Your Mike Curiak! Famous endurance racer nut and proponenant of the big wheel!! Now I know the connection ..."MikeSEE" and 29" wheels etc.. right on I am working on one now myself
 

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Great bike! I know there have been a lot of posts, so maybe I missed it. Maybe it is the most closely guarded secret... What did it cost????

Thanks

Yamabiker
 

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What type of bottom bracket is used on this bicycle? As I understand standart square BB with 135mm and 140mm width are not present. It is simpler to do an axle for the adjustable BB. Or it cartridge type.

And as I understand for the winter use it is better to have less plastic details including in BB.
 

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Nandarou said:
What type of bottom bracket is used on this bicycle? As I understand standart square BB with 135mm and 140mm width are not present. It is simpler to do an axle for the adjustable BB. Or it cartridge type.

And as I understand for the winter use it is better to have less plastic details including in BB.
I think Mike is using a Phil Wood square bottom bracket. Shell is most probably 73mm.
 

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Mike, CS length?

So, I finally got to try a Pugs with Endos on some softer snow... I'm impressed by the float! There were a couple of hills that I couldn't quite get up with my Snowcat-mounted Nevegal that were a breeze on the Pugs. There was one super steep one however that I couldn't make on the Pugs. It got me thinking that a shorter CS than the Pugs' shortest position (17.6") would help get some more climbing traction.

Mike, the CS length on your setup looks shorter than most... can you divulge?

We rode part of the course for the Jay Winter Challenge...

http://forums.mtbr.com/blog.php?do=showjournal&j=93
 

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Discussion Starter · #88 ·
Nandarou said:
What type of bottom bracket is used on this bicycle? As I understand standart square BB with 135mm and 140mm width are not present. It is simpler to do an axle for the adjustable BB. Or it cartridge type.

And as I understand for the winter use it is better to have less plastic details including in BB.
It's a Phil Wood steel spindle (square taper) with a 140mm length.
 

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Discussion Starter · #89 ·
dRjOn said:
from the initial posts, you had an issue with the trail. did the fork get altered?

any hints as to what you are planning in terms of exploratory rides on it?
Nope, I just needed more 'on snow' time on it. Lots of turn-in on paved roads or really tacky dirt trails. But get it onto the snow and it really shines. Stable and nimble--just like a snowbike should be.

First big exploratory ride is about a month away. Self-supported attempt at the South Route of the Iditarod Trail. Pic below shows some of the testing that's going on with the load carrying. 3 weeks worth of food/fuel/gear ain't lite...

MC
 

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Discussion Starter · #90 ·
BikesOnSnow said:
So, I finally got to try a Pugs with Endos on some softer snow... I'm impressed by the float! There were a couple of hills that I couldn't quite get up with my Snowcat-mounted Nevegal that were a breeze on the Pugs. There was one super steep one however that I couldn't make on the Pugs. It got me thinking that a shorter CS than the Pugs' shortest position (17.6") would help get some more climbing traction.

Mike, the CS length on your setup looks shorter than most... can you divulge?
Hey Brooke-

The float of the Endo's is super impressive. Too bad they go sideways as fast as forwards! What I would give to have had the ear of the Surly guys when they were designing those meats!

CS length on a snowbike is (IMO) less critical than on a regular mtb. Body english on a snowbike is way more important. But both are trumped by the ability of the tire to stick (instead of slip). Bet if you had a 3.0 Nokian Gazza on the Pugs you'd have cleaned that climb with ease.

MC
 

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Discussion Starter · #91 ·
update

Since the next chapter in the life of the Snoots is about to start, I thought some here might get a kick outta the fruits of the last few months worth of fiddling, fabricating, and fine tuning.

The trailer was fab'ed by Brad Bingham at Moots, with several seemingly contradictory goals in mind. It had to be able to carry ~80lbs worth of gear, yet remain very light weight. It had to hold ~200oz of fuel (white gas) inside it's tubing, to feed my stove for most of the ~3 weeks I plan to be out. It needed to accomodate some custom panniers, a tent, a jacket, and misc other gear that won't fit on the Snoots proper. Of course, it uses a DT 440 FR 150mm hub w/Maxle just like the Snoots' wheels.

At the factory. Note the 5-position dropout, for fine tuning ride characterstics as the load and trail change.


At home, using the built-in kickstand while measuring for the panniers.


Fully loaded--everything for 3+ weeks on the trail.


At camp--unloaded. Tent, sleep pads, kitchen, sleeping bag, jacket, etc... are off and in-use.


Read some more details about the upcoming trip.

Happy spring.

MC
 

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Girt by sea.
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I know this might sound crazy (and is too late in any case) but did you consider making a sled trailer with a retractable wheel for the dirt? I really don't know much about this sort of riding, since it never snows in Western Australia, but I would imagine it would me much easier to pull a ski than a wheel through snow.

Anyway, cool bike and good luck on the upcoming trip.

Cheers,
Graeme
 

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Discussion Starter · #93 ·
Kalgrm said:
did you consider making a sled trailer with a retractable wheel for the dirt?

I would imagine it would me much easier to pull a ski than a wheel through snow.
Yes, it was considered. But the reality (aside from mondo complexity issues) is that sleds/skis pull much harder on the snow than a wheel does rolling over the top of it. And while, in soft snow, a sled would float better than the wheel could, the trailer wheel is not the limiting factor--the rear bike wheel is. It sinks before the other wheels do.

The rear bike wheel (being the power transmission of the bike, as well as the recipient of much of the weight of the rider) will always be the limiting factor in a snow bike.

I've got an idea on how to improve this, but it's gonna take a few months to work out...

MC
 

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mikesee said:
Yes, it was considered. But the reality (aside from mondo complexity issues) is that sleds/skis pull much harder on the snow than a wheel does rolling over the top of it. And while, in soft snow, a sled would float better than the wheel could, the trailer wheel is not the limiting factor--the rear bike wheel is. It sinks before the other wheels do.
Ah, that's a pity. I thought of a way to simplify the fitting of a sled (basically strap a ski to the wheel) but if that's not the limiting factor - or even a method of reducing drag significantly - then my lateral thinking was all in vane .....

Thanks for not laughing too hard, anyway!;)

Cheers,
Graeme
 

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Longer chainstays would unload the rear wheel a tad, but it must be quite a balancing act between having enough weight to maintain traction but not so much that it digs in too much. Transferring a greater portion of the load to the trailer wheel might be good, but that can introduce some stability issues. 2WD would be nice to have under certain conditions, but the added complexity and weight make it a difficult choice. If you didn't have such a potentially soft surface to contend with a "Big Dummy-like" solution might be good, but then you are loading that front wheel with that much more weight, and you lose a spare wheel in the process.

Nope, it ain't simple!
 

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Discussion Starter · #97 ·
Daner said:
Longer chainstays would unload the rear wheel a tad, but it must be quite a balancing act between having enough weight to maintain traction but not so much that it digs in too much. Transferring a greater portion of the load to the trailer wheel might be good, but that can introduce some stability issues. 2WD would be nice to have under certain conditions, but the added complexity and weight make it a difficult choice. If you didn't have such a potentially soft surface to contend with a "Big Dummy-like" solution might be good, but then you are loading that front wheel with that much more weight, and you lose a spare wheel in the process.

Nope, it ain't simple!
You've got a pretty good handle on all of the issues being dealt with. Also--the placement of the load on the trailer dramatically effects the handling of the bike. Centered and low is best, but fore/aft have advantages in certain snow conditions.

I like the *idea* of 2wd, although it's never really shown itself to be beneficial and the complexity issues will keep me scared of it for years to come.

Bottom line is that there will always be compromises. Some snow situations (most?!) just aren't rideable, so although it's possible to keep designing and redesigning to tweak things further and further, unless you have unlimited time and $$$ to throw at a project, the returns diminish quickly and you just gotta get comfortable with walking.

For 98%+ of the population, even hard core snow riders and racers, the Surly Pugsley with their rims and tires is perfect.

The Big Dummy/Xtracycle route has been suggested ad infinitum. Great at carrying a load, not so great at floating.

Cheers,

MC
 

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CP
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great write up. Looking forward to reading about your adventure.

FWIW, I found a source for WIDE 26" rims, of all places, a "chopper" bicycle shop.
I just receieved an 80mm wide rim for a project, and thought you all might want to know this guy had 100mm wide (!) 26" aluminum rims available, ...I figured, that maybe, just maybe you could find a wide enough tire to throw on and experiment with:
check it out here- http://www.choppersus.com/store/product/612/Rim-Only-26-x-4-Black/
 

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Discussion Starter · #99 ·
C.P. said:
great write up. Looking forward to reading about your adventure.

FWIW, I found a source for WIDE 26" rims,
The 4" rim will fit a Surly Endomorph tire, giving it a casing width of 106mm at 10psi. Which is great. Except that it'll take a custom frame (from an experienced snow bike builder) to make use of that without clearance (chain-tire, crank-chainstay) issues.

Won't fit a Pugsley. Clears my fork and trailer, but not between the chainstays. Doh.

The 4" rim weighs ~1600g.

MC
 

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But that 4" rim and greater casing width might be a good ticket for people like me who might want to turn a Big Dummy into a snow bike. Wonder if a Gazza 3 on a symmetric LM will fit out back...
 
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