[salinity]

Hi all - I'm riding (and still enjoying) a 2014 Transition Bandit 27.5 up here in southern New England and looking for some advice. I performed a full service on the XFusion Sweep recently (and decreased travel from 160 it was set at down to 140). The fork seems ok, but lacks any sort of small bump sensitivity (I get barely get any sag unless I run it way way below recommended pressure). From what I've read this seem somewhat common with these forks. I've seen a couple older Pikes available for around $300 and was wondering if anyone has thoughts if that would be a worthwhile upgrade? Any other 34 sanction forks that might be available around that pricepoint I should consider? I'm not looking to throw a ton of money at at 2014 bike, but it's definitely still serving me well for the type of riding I tend to do, so I don't mind a mild investment to upgrade the front end.

 

[Cary]

Fox 34 Rhythm takeoffs are a good deal when they pop up. Used Manitou Mattoc is an excellent fork and come up used occasionally. DVO Diamond is heavier and needs the hifh speed stack softened, but also a great choice once tuned. Non boost 27.5 versions sell for about that price used.

 

[salinity]

Fox 34 Rhythm takeoffs are a good deal when they pop up. Used Manitou Mattoc is an excellent fork and come up used occasionally. DVO Diamond is heavier and needs the hifh speed stack softened, but also a great choice once tuned. Non boost 27.5 versions sell for about that price used.

Thanks! Saw a Rhythm pop up on PB, but missed out on it. Probably not a ton of non-boost bikes being put out these days to stoke the new takeoff market.

 

[PhillipJ]

Pull apart the RL2 compression stack and move the ring shim so it preloads one or two less shims. The only tool you need is a thin spanner, 12mm I think. I just took a grinder to a cheap one.

 

[salinity]

Pull apart the RL2 compression stack and move the ring shim so it preloads one or two less shims. The only tool you need is a thin spanner, 12mm I think. I just took a grinder to a cheap one.

I was reading the XFusion threads about this last night. So move one or two of the smaller shims between the face (10mm) and support (8mm) shim? This seems like a relatively easy thing to try.
I wonder if the fork oil I used was too heavy - I used Motul synthetic light-Med 7.5w. Best I can find is that oil has a cSt of 24 at 40*

 

[Cary]

Thanks! Saw a Rhythm pop up on PB, but missed out on it. Probably not a ton of non-boost bikes being put out these days to stoke the new takeoff market.

Depending on the hub you have, getting a boost adaptor is pretty easy, so you may consider a boost fork, which will be compatible going forward if you stay with 27.5.

 

[Cary]

I was reading the XFusion threads about this last night. So move one or two of the smaller shims between the face (10mm) and support (8mm) shim? This seems like a relatively easy thing to try.
I wonder if the fork oil I used was too heavy - I used Motul synthetic light-Med 7.5w. Best I can find is that oil has a cSt of 24 at 40*

It will increase low speed dampening. Orfice dampers are sensative to viscosity changes, shim stacks are not (within reason).

 

[salinity]

Depending on the hub you have, getting a boost adaptor is pretty easy, so you may consider a boost fork, which will be compatible going forward if you stay with 27.5.

Boost spacers - now there’s an idea! I have an Easton Havic wheelset (Easton hubs), so I’ll look into that. Tinkering with the fork more may be the first order of business though…

It will increase low speed dampening. Orfice dampers are sensative to viscosity changes, shim stacks are not (within reason).

Thanks for that explanation. To clarify, are you saying heavier oil would increase low speed damping (presumably decreasing small bump sensitivity)? I can’t find solid specs on what precisely I should run in the fork - the Sweep service video states 7.5w, but there’s some other recs buried in the 38 pages of xfusion tuning and service thread. Other internet sources say completely different weights.

 

[Cary]

The oil you used is fine, most forks use about 15-18cst at 40c, you are pretty close. A slightly thicker oil will push cause the high speed stack to open sooner. Try modifying the stack as suggested, as lack of small bump sensitivity is generally too much high speed compression, or excessive seal/bushing friction.

 

[PhillipJ]

It will increase low speed dampening. Orfice dampers are sensative to viscosity changes, shim stacks are not (within reason).

Unless they've changed the RL2 damper the LSC is actually shimmed too. There's another little stack in a kind of cup thing that controls flow through the LSC orifice. The actual orifice is quite large.

 

[PhillipJ]

I was reading the XFusion threads about this last night. So move one or two of the smaller shims between the face (10mm) and support (8mm) shim? This seems like a relatively easy thing to try.
I wonder if the fork oil I used was too heavy - I used Motul synthetic light-Med 7.5w. Best I can find is that oil has a cSt of 24 at 40*

I don't remember exactly what I did. Mostly just moved the ring shim away from the piston, unsure if I moved it one shim or two.


I don't think oil weight will change compression much. Unsure about rebound.

 

[salinity]

Unless they've changed the RL2 damper the LSC is actually shimmed too. There's another little stack in a kind of cup thing that controls flow through the LSC orifice. The actual orifice is quite large.

Yea - this seems the case from reading through that master thread - seems to change the lockout to more of a semi-trail mode. I may try re-shimming both, though I’m guessing the damper is more easily accessible? May try that first.

 

[salinity]

I don't remember exactly what I did. Mostly just moved the ring shim away from the piston, unsure if I moved it one shim or two.


I don't think oil weight will change compression much. Unsure about rebound.

Which one is the ring shim? Is it the intermediate sized shim between the one large and and 3(?) smaller ones (I’m not inside the fork yet).

 

[Cary]

Which one is the ring shim? Is it the intermediate sized shim between the one large and and 3(?) smaller ones (I’m not inside the fork yet).

A ring shim is a two piece shim with a thinner piece in the middle. Think one washer inside another. Ring shims are used to create preload and/or to create a digressive stack.

At post 153 there is a stack and mod description.

official xfusion rl2 fork service and tuning thread

I just stripped my Slant DLA to do the same mod as Tokrot, only to find that I have an extra 10mm shim, the order being 10, 10, 8, 5, 5, 5, 5. Anyone else found this? I am tempted to assume it's a mistake during assembly because they are so small and stick together really easily. Will go 10...

www.mtbr.com

 

[salinity]

A ring shim is a two piece shim with a thinner piece in the middle. Think one washer inside another. Ring shims are used to create preload and/or to create a digressive stack.

At post 153 there is a stack and mod description.

official xfusion rl2 fork service and tuning thread

I just stripped my Slant DLA to do the same mod as Tokrot, only to find that I have an extra 10mm shim, the order being 10, 10, 8, 5, 5, 5, 5. Anyone else found this? I am tempted to assume it's a mistake during assembly because they are so small and stick together really easily. Will go 10...

www.mtbr.com

Thanks - I see now. I was referring to altering the damper stack that reportedly controls mid-valving (the "cup"; essentially post #1 in that thread) - there doesn't seem to be a ring shim in that stack, while the LSC stack (posts 153/154) does appear to have one. I definitely appreciate the presence of the fork's mid-valve, though guessing instances of brake dive are largely caused by my sometimes improper riding technique. I don't use the lockout, so if I can tune that (via the LSC stack) towards more of a trail mode, that could be cool to play with.

I am thinking now that maybe the oil is too heavy. I may try that + the mid valve stack first to see what the difference is. Anyone know of a good animated or explination with pictures of how open bath damper systems work? I'd like to understand this intuitively.

Thanks all for the responses - I think I have a way forward for now (tinker with the current Xfusion fork more), but definitely keep the suggestions and info coming!

 

[salinity]

I suppose this is an option as well:

X-Fusion Rough Cut Damper Unit, 34mm (SWEEP, SLANT,TRACE,McQueen) 816022017809 | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for X-Fusion Rough Cut Damper Unit, 34mm (SWEEP, SLANT,TRACE,McQueen) at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

 

[Cary]

Thanks - I see now. I was referring to altering the damper stack that reportedly controls mid-valving (the "cup"; essentially post #1 in that thread) - there doesn't seem to be a ring shim in that stack, while the LSC stack (posts 153/154) does appear to have one. I definitely appreciate the presence of the fork's mid-valve, though guessing instances of brake dive are largely caused by my sometimes improper riding technique. I don't use the lockout, so if I can tune that (via the LSC stack) towards more of a trail mode, that could be cool to play with.

I am thinking now that maybe the oil is too heavy. I may try that + the mid valve stack first to see what the difference is. Anyone know of a good animated or explination with pictures of how open bath damper systems work? I'd like to understand this intuitively.

Thanks all for the responses - I think I have a way forward for now (tinker with the current Xfusion fork more), but definitely keep the suggestions and info coming!

Brake dive is caused by too low of a spring rate and/or not enough low speed compression (spring holds the fork up, low speed controls the weight shift). Have you tried a bit more air pressure and removing any volume spacers (if used)? All an open damper means is the damper assembly sits in the stanchion directly in a bath of oil. Sealed damper is one that is in its own cartridge within the stanchion. There is really no performance difference between the two, the actual execution and tuning being far more important.

 

[salinity]

Brake dive is caused by too low of a spring rate and/or not enough low speed compression (spring holds the fork up, low speed controls the weight shift). Have you tried a bit more air pressure and removing any volume spacers (if used)? All an open damper means is the damper assembly sits in the stanchion directly in a bath of oil. Sealed damper is one that is in its own cartridge within the stanchion. There is really no performance difference between the two, the actual execution and tuning being far more important.

So in terms of "diving" - how much travel (%) is acceptable when braking, hitting the front brake, etc? My technique is likely to blame for some of this and maybe I need to recalibrate my expectations there. I have and continue to play around with with air pressure/spring to get a good balance between suppleness and support when braking, etc. That's essentially what brought me here.

Perhaps the extra tuning the rough cut damper offers would help to dial that in? I'll have to sit down and read up on reviews and ride reports on that damper vs teh stock RL2.

 

[Cary]

So in terms of "diving" - how much travel (%) is acceptable when braking, hitting the front brake, etc? My technique is likely to blame for some of this and maybe I need to recalibrate my expectations there. I have and continue to play around with with air pressure/spring to get a good balance between suppleness and support when braking, etc. That's essentially what brought me here.

Perhaps the extra tuning the rough cut damper offers would help to dial that in? I'll have to sit down and read up on reviews and ride reports on that damper vs teh stock RL2.

There is no target percentage and using percentage to set sag is higly innacurrate and variable. If you have the ability to change the air volume you use air pressure to set up your feel in the first 50% or so of travel and spacers to control the secon half. If ypu have not, you should go theough your initial setup methodicaly. This is a good introduction:

 

[salinity]

I was

There is no target percentage and using percentage to set sag is higly innacurrate and variable. If you have the ability to change the air volume you use air pressure to set up your feel in the first 50% or so of travel and spacers to control the secon half. If ypu have not, you should go theough your initial setup methodicaly. This is a good introduction:

Thanks - I have been quite methodical setting spring and rebound - changing one variable in tiny increments, running the same part of trail over and over, etc. I'm just hoping I can squeeze some more initial plushness out of the fork, without making it too divey. Improving my riding technique will probably serve to help on that last part as well.

I think I've heard mention of this, but what about adding oil to the air spring side (instead of spacers)? I may have 5mL in there currently.