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mtbr Buckeye...in Austin
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Been itching for a 29er for some time now. It's like getting on a plane and watching all the short people sitting in the exit row or first class on my way back to get cramped in a seat. :)

When I got my 2004 Titus Super Moto, 4+ years ago, there weren't too many 29er options or riders out there. That's now changed and I have always felt pretty cramped on my XL Super Moto. TT is only 23.5, I got it out to 24.25 with a sway back, but that's not enough. I still feel cramped. I got on a buddy's Yeti 575 and felt a lot better. So I can image what a 29er would feel like.

The other problem I have is suspension. I'm a big guy. 6'6", 260+ plus gear, I currently ride 7" front and 7" rear coil suspension.....so is 4" or 5" enough I ask? (<==insert crude comment here)

How are the frames? Who do y'all recommend? Who's going to be beefy enough?

lenzSpor has the Behemoth with 5" of loving and a 25.25 TT.

Ventana has the El Capitan but it only has 4" but a 26.1 TT.

Will I have suspension envy?

What about front suspension?
Maxed out at 5". I've seen a custom Fox 36 Talas that could take a 29er wheel, but would figure that would jack with the geometry.

Stans Flows Rims should be strong enough. My hadley FR hub with the stell free hub body upgrade should be good enough to rebuild on, no?

Who else should I be looking at with enough "beef" to lug this "beef" around on?

My other issue is going to be test riding something in my size.
I can test ride an El Rey, but will have to baby it. Can get my hands on a RacerX 29er, but don't want to snap it :eekster:

Am I also saying goodbye to bombing downhills with jumps and launches by going 29er??

I'm sure I'll climb and clean stuff better, but live for the downhill, rather than uphill stuff.

See below.

Thanks in advance for your help. I'm looking to part out and sell as much as I can off my current rig that won't swap over.

Decisions, decisions....

Cheers,
Erik
 

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mtbr Buckeye...in Austin
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
So no one is chiming in with advice?
in the clydesdale forum people wax poetic and weigh in (punn intended) accordingly.

Figured y'all would have plenty of opinions on what to try, get, etc.
Thought y'all would be preaching the 29er stuff.
Spread the gospel man.

Behmonth and Ventana El Capitan are leading the pack so far from what I've seen but I'm open to researching more.....

help a brotha out....
 

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Not much to say as you zeroed in on 2 frames that would be sturdy enough and do what you want to do. Definitely check with Ventana about the 5" rockers for the El Capitain as mentioned. Front suspension will likely be your biggest issue, check out the WB Fluid 29 maybe (I'm more of an xc-type so others will be more helpful). As for doing what you do in the pictures but on a 29er, there's a thread with some DH stud doing some crazy stuff on a Behemoth so you'll probably be fine, just get some good wheels built up (lacemine29.com is a good place to start). Also, you might check out the Lenz Lunchbox.

Oh yeah, you're wheels looks really small in those pictures :D
 

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My thought is whether you want to get onto a more XC platform or not. But once you go 29er (expecially for guys like us) it is hard to go back, IMO. I am 6'5 230 so I feel your pain, I am not a expert but 29er makes a lot of sense for guys like us, and 29er frankly rules in my opinion. A lot of my tall friends recently are now full 29er converts, some have literally liquidated and completely rebuilt their arsenals to 29er once they tried it once. It is pretty neat...

With a good 5" bike, or even a 4" rear with a dialed shock, you can do everything in the pics even at 260lbs would be my guess. Just make sure the wheelset is strong. The El Cap would be an excellent option. You may want to call Ventana just in case but yes they make and sell a 5" rocker kit. The only thing is the Ventana 29ers are a little more XCish, stiffer shock and less plush/deep than some of the others like a Lenz Behemoth or Lunchbox, but the difference is negligable. The White Brothers fork is an excellent option. I have two air only White Brothers fork that I frankly absolutely love. Even the air only is a very powerful fork. The Fluid 135 is the same with an added coil. So coil/oil/air, more than stout enough for 260. When you order, whether going through a dealer or direct with WB (direct can be a hair more expensive) just specify this as each fork is custom built or can be with added heavy duty springs.

The Lenz Lunchbox would be the best option though, it is the same as a Behemoth but with a nice wide 150mm rear axle so super strong rear. They both use a nice short chainstay which is nice too, flickable. The Lenz bikes are very plush. They have a "not as bling" reputation as the Ventanas for some reason but they are seriously awesome bikes, some if not the best 29er full suspension bikes on the market IMO.

I hope it helps...
Andre
 

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conjoinicorned
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my friend (username hizzity) is almost exactly your size, he rides a Niner RIP9. lots of jumping and downhill bombing and he's faster than ever before. he claims his comfort level is so much better than on his 26ers that he can go faster/bigger than before.
i also ride one at 5'6" 160#..

just going downhill (even crazy DH), having more suspension is not necessary. off jumps and drops the wheels don't add anything to the suspension. you won't have any breakage issues off the terrain in your pics with either the RIP or the others you mentioned. here's hizzity on a 3+ footer

 

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I'm going to be the voice in the wilderness and suggest you ride the WB 135 before committing to it. I found it too soft for my tastes, and I could never eliminate brake dive on the thing without absolutely killing small bump compliance. I ran it with the heavy duty spring kit and bumpstop at a bwt of 265. It is a nice fork, I think, for lighter riders.
 

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mtbr Buckeye...in Austin
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
This is what I'm talking about.

El Cap with the X style TT, upgrade to quad bearings, and they do have an off the shelf heavy duty rear swing arm adn 5" rockers.

I'm quite used to the Horst link on my Super Moto.
Haven't really ridden the others (single pivot, VPP...)....noticeable difference?

Good call on the Sultan! :thumbsup: need to check that one out. Like the fact that they have a size called the sasquatch! XXXL

Don't see the Lunchbox on the lenzsport site. Dug the dude's Pink Behemoth!

Are stans flows rims strong enough?
Hadley FR hub with steel freehub body upgrade :confused:

Love love my 66 & my DHX 5.0 Coil (will have to get the coil again) :thumbsup:

Too bad Zoke doesn't have a comparable fork for 29ers. :nono:

heard good things about White Bros...don't see them much here in Austin, though....

keep it coming love to hear what others have to say and have ridden (since I might not be able to test out too many).
 

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Lenz will have a whole new website hopefully here in a couple weeks :thumbsup: Otherwise, if you search Lunchbox you will find a bunch of references/photos again. The El Cap (all 29er from Ventana) is stock with the quad bearings... I would maybe use that DHX shock, or a DHX/coil. The Lunchbox again is just a beefier Behemoth (which is also beefy). Both can be built relatively light or heavy. Both have XXL. The Ventana and Turner would be the quickest to get, the Lenz is probably about 6 weeks out currently. If you are impatient. I am 95% solid on the 5" bolt on option for the El Cap, couldn't think of why they wouldn't have in stock. The El Cap is a stiffer stronger El Rey, for what its worth. Best, Andre
 

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eokerholm said:
Don't see the Lunchbox on the lenzsport site.

keep it coming love to hear what others have to say and have ridden (since I might not be able to test out too many).
I am no where near your size (6'1"). All of your considerations are great frames (Ventana, Turner, and Lenz). Flip a coin. The differences are truly minimal. I have experience on the Ventana El Capitan and the Lenz Lunchbox. I prefer the Lunchbox, but it really depends on how you are going to ride it.

Do you want more travel? (Lunchbox has an extra inch)

Do you want more relaxed geometry? (Lunchbox has a slacker head tube angle by at least two degrees)

Do you want shorter Chainstays? (at your size, it is probably not much of an issue, and you may find you really prefer the longer stays of the Ventana to keep the front end planted on the climbs)

Do you want loads (and loads) of tire clearance, and the ability to run any shock on earth? (think Turner here)

If you are going to use it for an all around bike, they are all fine. If the use is more downhill specific, the Box is hard to beat.

Lenz's website is terrible. The Lunchbox is the same as the Behemoth except a little slacker, and has a 150mm X 12mm rear Maxle set up. Just call the number and talk with Devin (and keep calling:rolleyes:). You can do the same with Ventana and Turner. They are three of the nicest guys in the industry and might have some great info that can help you. Much better than internet weenies, that is for sure.

For me, the Ventana was too XC oriented and deliberate (great on tight singletrack!) for my trails and riding style.

Of the Ventana El Capitan, Turner Sultan, and the Lenz Lunchbox/Behemoth, the one most similar in character to your Supermoto is the Lunchbox. Is that what you want? Only you know.

Where are you located. Pics look like Utah.
 

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XXL Behemoth or Capitan/Rey w TA fork. I'm a couple inches shorter than you but weigh the same and ride an XL Behemoth. For the terrain pictured I'd say 36h hubs laced to Kris Holms rims. Build it up with a coil-over shock and some Stouts.

Mike Curiak (mikesee here) is your friend in matters of this nature.
 

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mtbr Buckeye...in Austin
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
check the red
Enel said:
I am no where near your size (6'1"). All of your considerations are great frames (Ventana, Turner, and Lenz). Flip a coin. The differences are truly minimal. I have experience on the Ventana El Capitan and the Lenz Lunchbox. I prefer the Lunchbox, but it really depends on how you are going to ride it.

Do you want more travel? (Lunchbox has an extra inch) as in 6"?

Do you want more relaxed geometry? (Lunchbox has a slacker head tube angle by at least two degrees) wouldn't know I've only ridden my SM and an Enduro Expert that I broke, snapped at the chainstays ;)

Do you want shorter Chainstays? (at your size, it is probably not much of an issue, and you may find you really prefer the longer stays of the Ventana to keep the front end planted on the climbs) no clue. not sure what the difference would be or feel like. All I know is my **** is cramped on the SM.

Do you want loads (and loads) of tire clearance, and the ability to run any shock on earth? (think Turner here) ....depends on how limited my options are (Turner didn't have that big of a TT and that was my concern)

If you are going to use it for an all around bike, they are all fine. If the use is more downhill specific, the Box is hard to beat. Mostly All Mountain with some fun jumps and drops here and there, mostly All Mountain. Not too many DH options in TX

Lenz's website is terrible. The Lunchbox is the same as the Behemoth except a little slacker, and has a 150mm X 12mm rear Maxle set up. Just call the number and talk with Devin (and keep calling:rolleyes:). You can do the same with Ventana and Turner. They are three of the nicest guys in the industry and might have some great info that can help you. Much better than internet weenies, that is for sure.

For me, the Ventana was too XC oriented and deliberate (great on tight singletrack!) for my trails and riding style.

Of the Ventana El Capitan, Turner Sultan, and the Lenz Lunchbox/Behemoth, the one most similar in character to your Supermoto is the Lunchbox. Is that what you want? Only you know. I do like the SM ride and feel (solid, confident), but really liked the raked out feel of the Yeti 575 when I was on it. TT Envy...Felt more stable in the cock pit for me, but I thought it was going to snap at 24.5 lbs :D
Where are you located. Pics look like Utah.-Texas. Those were in Palo Duro in Canyon, TX, I live and ride mostly in Austin, but have or will travel to NM, PA, AR, TN, KY to ride on trips. 1st trip to Moab in Late Sept/Oct.
 

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Here goes...

I have a an XL Sopermoto ('06 version) that I orginally had set up like yours (for pedaling as well as going down). It is now my downhill rig. I also own a XXL Turner Sultan. I love the Sultan. I am on the small side for the XXL however. I am 6' 4" and 230 lbs but have goofy long arms and legs. I achieved the same saddle to bar length with the 26.5" top tube and a 90mm stem as on my Racer X 29er (yeah, too many bikes, I have a problem). It seams to fit perfectly.

You will be amazed by the improvement in comfort and control by the increased top tube length as well as the 29" wheels. I think someone of your size would be perfect for this size bike. Don't get me wrong the Supermoto is a great bike but my opinion is it is too small for you and you may be pleasantly surprised at the difference between a it and a XXL 29er (brand doesn't really matter, all mentioned are excellent bikes, I'm just partial to the Sultan).

I have the Sultan outfitted with a Fox 120mm fork and it seems perfect for this bike. It climbs really well. I have done some long sustained climbing in AZ and CO and it behaved beautifully. I originally had it built with a WB Fluid 135. It rocked downhill but made me pay more attention climbing steep trails than I wanted. The Fox is roughly 15mm shorter in the axle to crown measurement (WB 535mm vs Fox 520mm). The Fox is very capable for someone your size as well as the WB. I think it depends on what you really would like.

I feel very comfortable on technical descents with 4" of travel in the rear. I have never felt it bottom or not be able to keep up with the trail. I think partially because of the bike and the other part is the Fox RP23 with the large air canister.

I think you are headed in the right direction. You won't be disappoited with any, just go XXL with big wheels.
 

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I disagree that you woould have to baby the El Ray...actually, I emphatically disagree. I bought mine out of fear of abusing my Dos Niner too much. I now know that I am not even close to pushing my El Ray too far.

As an aside, dispite all the linkage, it's far more laterally ridgid than my 2007 Dos.
 

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eokerholm said:
check the red
The Lunchbox and Behemoth have 5 inches of rear travel.

Code:
Turner didn't have that big of a TT and that was my concern
Turner has the longest top tubes available of all the brands I believe.

Ventana can do full custom.

Longer chainstays keep the front end relatively more planted which is great for sweeping turns, and climbing, and less great for manuals, wheelie drops, etc. At your size, the difference is likely a non-issue. The Supermoto must be a wheelie machine for a guy your size. Many larger humans favor the longer chainstay length of a full suspension 29" frame.

Listen to Stew. He has some great advice. You need a bike that fits you right, and the riding you have pictured will be fine on any that you choose. I would think seriously about that one in the classifieds.
 

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change is good
Switchblade with a 38, 29+ rigid WaltWorks
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my El Cap is definitely more stiff than my El Rey. That being said the El Rey has a rep for being a very stiff frame. A 5in rocker is available, but some did not like the extra rear travel and/or long fork on the front. The 4in Ventanas are XC oriented which is what I like on tight midwest and east coast single track.

I've been as high as 270lb on my El Cap and it didn't whimper. Actually the main advantage that 29er wheels hold for me is the longer chain stays that are necessary prevent me from wheelying the bike up hill. I have a 35in inseam and I'm almost 6ft tall.

My gut feeling is that you would be happier on the Box, but I strongly encorgage you to demo a Ventana.
 
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