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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Apparently those self appointed "environmentalists" and self serving bureaucrats do not like people running in the hills either (which has exactly zero potential for any measurable impact and conflict). From BAOC mailing list:

Well if you were clued in to our “soft schedule” planning calendar,
you might have been aware of a possible Annadel event on Nov. 23.

Unfortunately, they are denying any permit this year that has anything off trail.So we can’t hold the event there.
I certainly see a disturbing pattern here. A few of our GCO meets are currently at risk due to new rules about what we can do and where we can do it on our maps in the River Parkway. This is due to a law suit against the county (permit givers) by a well-funded, self -appointed watchdog group called SARA. They happen to be extremely well connected politically, and have an army of lawyers at the ready. If you extrapolate this trend we're seeing, urban-O may be the only O we will be able to enjoy in 10 years. I sure hope the trend is reversible.
SARA = Save the American River Association. The County of Sacramento passed a American River Parkway Plan in 2006, and SARA is suing the county because it disagrees with the way the plan is being implemented, specifically with regard to organized competitive recreational activities and permitting. They seem to be against running events. They may or may not be aware of orienteering.
They are unfortunately quite aware of orienteering events; see the complaint at http://www.sarariverwatch.org/Review-of-Gold-Country-Orienteering-Event-FINAL-Sept-22.pdf. Rather a disturbing read.
 

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Don't most parks have rules about going off trail, which would preclude orienteering events?
 

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I can't really get on board with bashing SARA. For one it's arguable that the American River Parkway wouldn't even exist without SARA starting the push in the 60's. And the complaint is basically that the County isn't enforcing its own rules.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Don't most parks have rules about going off trail, which would preclude orienteering events?
And do those rule make any more sense than prohibiting bikes on singletrack? Probably even less.

There is no impact from a yearly event - and so far they had been allowed. Now yet another busybody not letting people enjoy nature.
 

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They happen to be extremely well connected politically, and have an army of lawyers at the ready.
There in lies the problem. You have these blood sucking attorneys who don't give a damn about recreational use and end up being the only winners in a lose/lose situation.
 

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You have these blood sucking attorneys who don't give a damn about recreational use and end up being the only winners in a lose/lose situation.

huh? I'm no fan of attorneys but do you even have a citation for this? Show me how this is just a bunch of attorneys who don't give a damn. I'm not seeing that from reading SARAs complaint.

And about the "politically connected" thing - Yes and? Newsflash - people get elected to boards because of their connections. Sometimes those work out for us. Did you know that IMBA's board has at least one attorney and a bunch of CEOs? Eww gross!
 

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My only citation is from the OP, ". . . have an army of lawyers at the ready." I'm just foaming at the mouth about attorneys

While I am not familiar with SARA or this issue, (probably should read up on it) but my general opinion is show me an attorney who is really cares about the issue they are litigating. I know they work hard (its their job) but really, in the end it's all about getting paid, (no matter the cost) to both sides.

Yeah, it is gross, but in our litigious society it is wise to have an attorney on the board.
 

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Now yet another busybody not letting people enjoy nature.
You talkin' to me?! I don't have a dog in this fight, merely pointing out that you shouldn't be surprised when parks follow their own rules. My advice: Poach and evade. Good luck with your orientationing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
You talkin' to me?!
No, I was talking about that organization filing complaints.

My advice: Poach and evade.
Does not work well with organized events with half of the participants being kids.

Check it out one day, it is a lot of fun. They have clinics for beginners and easy White to Orange rated courses to start with.
 

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Attorneys are there to fight for your interests, whatever they are. They are hired warriors which has worked better in history than shooting each other in disputes. It is their job to represent your side when you hire them, not to seek some high moral ground. That is the job of the jury and court.

I had an ancestor on the Mayflower so I checked out Plymouth Colony records that are online now. Edward Doty was sued many times for his cattle trespassing, picking up firewood someplace wrong, a fist fight, etc. This was a litigious society from day one and the Puritans were at the root of it. He wasn't a Puritan, half the people on the Mayflower weren't, but obviously he survived that first winter when 50% died. Didn't help him with litigation though.
 

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jmpreston, that is an interesting bit of info about the roots of our culture. It provides insight into the model that some folk use about rule enforcement.

Many are challenged to follow certain rules as they feel they are unfair to begin with so they chose to ignore them. The folks who designed the laws can then point to them as scofflaws. They see these people as having no respect for the law.

And they are right.
 

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jmpreston, that is an interesting bit of info about the roots of our culture. It provides insight into the model that some folk use about rule enforcement.

Many are challenged to follow certain rules as they feel they are unfair to begin with so they chose to ignore them. The folks who designed the laws can then point to them as scofflaws. They see these people as having no respect for the law.

And they are right.

That said, there are those who choose to obey them if only to stay out of trouble. Lawmakers see that as respect and buy-in. I'm not so sure.
 
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