HD is nice looking but suspension is too flex for me. Somebody may likes it and I guess it depends on individual riding style. Doubtable VPP? Although a lot of forums are favoring DW-Link over VPP. But look at the fact yourself, VPP2 remains the fastest and most powerful monster in Downhill Champanionship. This is the real place that you can test suspension technology to the fullest. The kickback feeling u mention on Nomad can be solved by properly configure rear shock.
Nomad vs Mojo HD, Firebird and RFX. Opinion please. :D
I'm planning on buying either an Ibis Mojo HD, a Firebird, a Nomad, or even hold on untill spring 2011 to get the RFX.
There are some issues i've got deciding wich one, where price is not, but design, since most of em' have a weak point.
The HD goes as the strongest candidate, but I still doubt it as a climber.
The Firebird seems to be not so light as the HD and not as plush and "longer travel feeling", also it ain't got an adjustable seatpost cable guide, lever Joplin is not good.
The Nomad has the doubtable VPP, wich i've actually ridden, and felt good, since my only experiences with full suspension were single-pivot and Horst link, I'm not really looking on my expirience the VPP as an inferior system, anyway, physics and costumer feedback go for the DW link... I guess the Nomad's Issue is solved with a fine tuned coil, but... does anyone really know if it fixes the Nomad's bad small bump and kickback feeling?. The falling rate is a pain.
On the RFX stands a whole mystery, since the geometry is kinda discouraging and so it is the possible weight.
The reason of this thread is that on Mexico it's impossible to test the DW link bikes, there's no dealer and bad customer service would not allow to demo anyway. I'm meaning to buy it in the states, but need to choose carefully.
That's why I'm relying on your feedback, since on the reviews most of people sticks with the reviewed bike and say: Yeah, best ride ever, etc. Wich doesn't really help, and I haven't been able to find a thread confronting this bikes.
Thanks.
There are some issues i've got deciding wich one, where price is not, but design, since most of em' have a weak point.
The HD goes as the strongest candidate, but I still doubt it as a climber.
The Firebird seems to be not so light as the HD and not as plush and "longer travel feeling", also it ain't got an adjustable seatpost cable guide, lever Joplin is not good.
The Nomad has the doubtable VPP, wich i've actually ridden, and felt good, since my only experiences with full suspension were single-pivot and Horst link, I'm not really looking on my expirience the VPP as an inferior system, anyway, physics and costumer feedback go for the DW link... I guess the Nomad's Issue is solved with a fine tuned coil, but... does anyone really know if it fixes the Nomad's bad small bump and kickback feeling?. The falling rate is a pain.
On the RFX stands a whole mystery, since the geometry is kinda discouraging and so it is the possible weight.
The reason of this thread is that on Mexico it's impossible to test the DW link bikes, there's no dealer and bad customer service would not allow to demo anyway. I'm meaning to buy it in the states, but need to choose carefully.
That's why I'm relying on your feedback, since on the reviews most of people sticks with the reviewed bike and say: Yeah, best ride ever, etc. Wich doesn't really help, and I haven't been able to find a thread confronting this bikes.
Thanks.
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Not a push for the HD but I thought I would tell you that as far as 5"+ suspension bikes, you will find no better climber than the Ibis Mojo, and the HD climbs nearly as well as that. Climbing shouldn't be a worry at all on an Ibis. Have you actually ridden one, or are you just making ignorant comments about a bike you've never even thrown a leg over?
Same to you cctuan, I highly doubt you've ever ridden an HD, let alone a Mojo. They aren't flexy at all, and 99% of the people I've seen throw that out there are just bad riders trying to come up with an excuse as to why they couldn't ride their bike as good as Sam Hill did in that one youtube video they've watched of him at least 1000 times now. Also, the fact that SC bikes do well WC races is more a testament to the fact that Steve Peat and Greg Minnar are the ones pedaling them down. Are you honestly dumb enough to think that suspension design is really going to win you a race just because of its design?
It's going to be hard to compare an RFX to and HD to a Santa Cruz. When you're at that level, you're not going to buy a bad bike no matter what you choose. Each one will ride a little bit different, and the only way you're going to know which one to buy is to go ride them all and see what one you like best.
Same to you cctuan, I highly doubt you've ever ridden an HD, let alone a Mojo. They aren't flexy at all, and 99% of the people I've seen throw that out there are just bad riders trying to come up with an excuse as to why they couldn't ride their bike as good as Sam Hill did in that one youtube video they've watched of him at least 1000 times now. Also, the fact that SC bikes do well WC races is more a testament to the fact that Steve Peat and Greg Minnar are the ones pedaling them down. Are you honestly dumb enough to think that suspension design is really going to win you a race just because of its design?
It's going to be hard to compare an RFX to and HD to a Santa Cruz. When you're at that level, you're not going to buy a bad bike no matter what you choose. Each one will ride a little bit different, and the only way you're going to know which one to buy is to go ride them all and see what one you like best.
I do not own a Mojo but I did tried Mojo before. If you really care about climbing ability, Trek is the better climber than Mojo. The fun part of mountain biking is not climbing but going downhill. That's why you only have downhill championship and does not have Uphill championship.
Diggidy, I totally agreed with you for downhill championship, the rider is the core factor. Are you dumb enough to think other people doesn't understand this fact? But do you know both Steve and Greg are achieving better time of speed with VPP2 than before(Orange)?
If climbing is your main concern, go and get a hardtail.
Diggidy, I totally agreed with you for downhill championship, the rider is the core factor. Are you dumb enough to think other people doesn't understand this fact? But do you know both Steve and Greg are achieving better time of speed with VPP2 than before(Orange)?
If climbing is your main concern, go and get a hardtail.
What you don't seem to grasp is that the longer the travel, the less impact the VPP design has on braking bump and small bump compliance. So a statement about how well the DH'rs are doing on VPP's and then correlating that with how a Nomad will perform is just plain ignorant. The Nomad's travel falls in the middle and does very well for a VPP design, especially the gen 2. Having said that, I wouldn't trade my DW link 6 Point for two Nomads! Jack al, you really can't go wrong with any of the bikes on your list so I'd go with which one gives you best availability, price and parts/service for your area. DW link bikes can require a lot of service - especially for the rocker arm and top linkage bolt/shock bushings in comparison to a gen 2 Nomad. The Turner is trying to avoid that with needle bearings but the overall cost of that bike will be quite a bit higher too. Tough decision and I probably just made it tougher, LOL!cctuan said:I totally agreed with you for downhill championship, the rider is the core factor. Are you dumb enough to think other people doesn't understand this fact? But do you know both Steve and Greg are achieving better time of speed with VPP2 than before(Orange)?
If climbing is your main concern, go and get a hardtail.
Have FUN!
G MAN
Let's be real here, it does have some flex to it and yes, I have ridden an HD. That is not saying the flex is bad, more than average, or a detractor from the bike in anyway. Some flex can be good. My Intense has rear end flex but it doesn't bother me. It is all personal preference. If you want to ride a stiff AM bike, try a Terremoto with dual bearings (which still flexes too).Diggidy said:Same to you cctuan, I highly doubt you've ever ridden an HD, let alone a Mojo. They aren't flexy at all, .
QFT!Diggidy said:It's going to be hard to compare an RFX to and HD to a Santa Cruz. When you're at that level, you're not going to buy a bad bike no matter what you choose. Each one will ride a little bit different, and the only way you're going to know which one to buy is to go ride them all and see what one you like best.
Buy the bike that fits you best and from the dealer that gives you the best service.
If you can't try them out. Look at the geometry - TTT, standover, WB, chainstay length and BB height and get the one that fits you the best. You can always tweek it to fine tune it.
The V10 and the Driver are still VPP1, and they are really different from the rest of SC Bikes, they are wayyyyyyyyyyy better than a Nomad or a BLT, and they deserve their reputation. The Nomad works well with a Coil, but the FB or the HD works really nice with an air shock (Lighter and Cheaper).cctuan said:HD is nice looking but suspension is too flex for me. Somebody may likes it and I guess it depends on individual riding style. Doubtable VPP? Although a lot of forums are favoring DW-Link over VPP. But look at the fact yourself, VPP2 remains the fastest and most powerful monster in Downhill Champanionship. This is the real place that you can test suspension technology to the fullest. The kickback feeling u mention on Nomad can be solved by properly configure rear shock.
One thing that really suprised me about the Nomad is how much I like the slightly longer chainstays. I wish I could try a rear triangle on my Firebird with the same length chainstays....
Jack Al,
From my experience, this type of question is better on the DH/AM forum. If you ask about SC, people will likely say they are leaning toward SC. If you are in the Ibis forum, people will likely tell you HD is the best thing ever. If you are in the turner forum...Man, do you know the term homer?:thumbsup: ...they will tell you turners are the best. The point is that if you go to a more general forum, you might find more people that are less brand specific and bias toward a particular brand
.
In this case, the DH forum or the AM forum might be the better medium to get your opinion from. I was surprise that this thread didn't end up as a "my nomad is the best....response thread".
The nomad is great. I ride one. But then the other bikes are great too. I rode the firebird and HD as demo bikes a few times. Turner was not available for demo in my area.
BTW, Driver is a VPP2 I think.
From my experience, this type of question is better on the DH/AM forum. If you ask about SC, people will likely say they are leaning toward SC. If you are in the Ibis forum, people will likely tell you HD is the best thing ever. If you are in the turner forum...Man, do you know the term homer?:thumbsup: ...they will tell you turners are the best. The point is that if you go to a more general forum, you might find more people that are less brand specific and bias toward a particular brand
.
In this case, the DH forum or the AM forum might be the better medium to get your opinion from. I was surprise that this thread didn't end up as a "my nomad is the best....response thread".
The nomad is great. I ride one. But then the other bikes are great too. I rode the firebird and HD as demo bikes a few times. Turner was not available for demo in my area.
BTW, Driver is a VPP2 I think.
Yeah, I'm impressed how well SC has maintained a good handling bike with relatively long chainstays on the Nomad. It still carves but really brings the stability in technical terrain. The good news these days is how many really good bikes are available from some really good manufacturers. However, each of them has their strong points, but getting to ride them all can be a problem to really discern what fits your bill.gticlay said:One thing that really suprised me about the Nomad is how much I like the slightly longer chainstays. I wish I could try a rear triangle on my Firebird with the same length chainstays....
you might consider the new Giant Reign X as well, I have a hard time believing the Firebird (probably the closest to the RX design-wise) or any of the other bikes on your list perform any better than the Giant and they all cost probably $1000 more for the frame. I rode the RX for a few months and it's capability as a climber and descender are frightening. selling mine because I don't need so much bike, but don't overlook it just because it's not from a boutique builder.
Aside from the snapping rear tri (have they fixed this yet?), bearings that pop outta the seats, and no XL frame size yeah, cool bike.hardboiled said:you might consider the new Giant Reign X as well, I have a hard time believing the Firebird (probably the closest to the RX design-wise) or any of the other bikes on your list perform any better than the Giant and they all cost probably $1000 more for the frame. I rode the RX for a few months and it's capability as a climber and descender are frightening. selling mine because I don't need so much bike, but don't overlook it just because it's not from a boutique builder.
the breakage that I've seen mentioned on the interweb is the lower Maestro link, not the rear triangle. apparently Giant redesigned the link and it's now available. never heard of bearings coming out. didn't early Firebirds have a problem with rockers breaking? SC has never had problems with bearings or anything...gticlay said:Aside from the snapping rear tri (have they fixed this yet?), bearings that pop outta the seats, and no XL frame size yeah, cool bike.
hey, I've ridden and owned 'boutique' frames (including SC) and will own them again. the Giant isn't perfect but it's a great bike at a pricepoint that the other bikes mentioned can't compete with.
I think it was the link - where it went around the tabs. You are correct, 1 person broke a rocker on the FB.hardboiled said:the breakage that I've seen mentioned on the interweb is the lower Maestro link, not the rear triangle. apparently Giant redesigned the link and it's now available. never heard of bearings coming out. didn't early Firebirds have a problem with rockers breaking? SC has never had problems with bearings or anything...
hey, I've ridden and owned 'boutique' frames (including SC) and will own them again. the Giant isn't perfect but it's a great bike at a pricepoint that the other bikes mentioned can't compete with.
I just think the Giant isn't on par with the other bikes in this thread. I would bet the 2011 frame WILL be and it might be a viable option/alternative.
The core of my negativity toward the Giant really is that they have either come dangerously close, or crossed the line (depending on who you talk to...) to copying/stealing the DW link design. SC/Intense haven't (didn't they buy the patents from outland or something?) and Ibis/Pivot work with the inventor of the DW link idea so I feel better supporting them.
defintily NO !gticlay said:I think it was the link - where it went around the tabs. You are correct, 1 person broke a rocker on the FB.
I just think the Giant isn't on par with the other bikes in this thread. I would bet the 2011 frame WILL be and it might be a viable option/alternative.
The core of my negativity toward the Giant really is that they have either come dangerously close, or crossed the line (depending on who you talk to...) to copying/stealing the DW link design. SC/Intense haven't (didn't they buy the patents from outland or something?) and Ibis/Pivot work with the inventor of the DW link idea so I feel better supporting them.
look at niner for example ...
yes in(<-click) 1998 and look at the development SC is doing on the VPP
yes, dave weagle (DW)
I had a Nomad and have spent some time on a Firebird. I prefer my 2010 Reign X to both of them, but I'd take a Firebird over the Nomad. I also rode a DW Spot. That's been my favorite so far in regards to suspension performance, but it felt a bit steep for me, and is beyond my pay grade. Based on my experience with the Spot, if it was available (and I could afford it), I'd get the RFX. Otherwise, I'd look towards the Firebird or the Mojo. I'd suggest a Reign X, but they're sold out of 2010s, and I can't deny the fact that waiting for a revised lower link to become available would probably be prudent. I wouldn't worry about bearings popping out, though.
Almost all criticsms of all these bikes are either...
...splitting hairs, complete BS, or a result in improper fit or setup. Bottom line is you can't lose here. Every single bike you are looking at is fantastic and I'd love to own any one of them. What you should really consider is the customer support you can expect from the maker and/or your dealer, and factor that heavily into your decision. If important to you, you may also consider where the bike is made, reputation of the company making it, ease of servicing the bike and how often it may require service, does it involve special tools, etc.
I have had a Nomad MKII for 10 months and I love it. It is not flexy, has undetectable pedal feedback, and survived a wet and muddy winter in the Pacific Northwest just fine thank you. Recently back from Whistler, it kicked ass there too both climbing and descending. The suspension I use is a TALAS 36/RC4 combo and I couldn't be happier.
Enjoy your new bike. It's impossible for you to lose here. BTW, you might also cosider a Knolly Endorphin. I have a couple of friends who ride them, I've got a few rides in on one, and they are really amazing bikes. Don't be put off by the 5" of rear suspension. On the trail it feels like it has just as much travel as my Nomad, and it's purposed the same way. :thumbsup:
...splitting hairs, complete BS, or a result in improper fit or setup. Bottom line is you can't lose here. Every single bike you are looking at is fantastic and I'd love to own any one of them. What you should really consider is the customer support you can expect from the maker and/or your dealer, and factor that heavily into your decision. If important to you, you may also consider where the bike is made, reputation of the company making it, ease of servicing the bike and how often it may require service, does it involve special tools, etc.
I have had a Nomad MKII for 10 months and I love it. It is not flexy, has undetectable pedal feedback, and survived a wet and muddy winter in the Pacific Northwest just fine thank you. Recently back from Whistler, it kicked ass there too both climbing and descending. The suspension I use is a TALAS 36/RC4 combo and I couldn't be happier.
Enjoy your new bike. It's impossible for you to lose here. BTW, you might also cosider a Knolly Endorphin. I have a couple of friends who ride them, I've got a few rides in on one, and they are really amazing bikes. Don't be put off by the 5" of rear suspension. On the trail it feels like it has just as much travel as my Nomad, and it's purposed the same way. :thumbsup:
There you go Jack. All bikes ride the same, so just go w/ the RFX since it meets these criteria the best.msylvan said:What you should really consider is the customer support you can expect from the maker and/or your dealer, and factor that heavily into your decision. If important to you, you may also consider where the bike is made, reputation of the company making it, ease of servicing the bike and how often it may require service, does it involve special tools, etc.
Slack seat tube. That seams to be the magic with the longer stays, moving that BB forward and keeping that magic SC handling. For me anyway. I have tried numerous steep seat tube bikes and None feel right.TNC said:Yeah, I'm impressed how well SC has maintained a good handling bike with relatively long chainstays on the Nomad. It still carves but really brings the stability in technical terrain. The good news these days is how many really good bikes are available from some really good manufacturers. However, each of them has their strong points, but getting to ride them all can be a problem to really discern what fits your bill.
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
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