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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
(X-post with Tires forum.) These tires are both proven fast-rollers. But I'm wondering which can stand up better against sidewall cuts from sharp rocks. I'm referring to the tube-type tires and, with the NBX, the light versions--the 2.2 or 2.0. What do you think? Thanks.
 

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I run all my Schwalbe tires in UST selection to avoid sidewall cuts. Having good luck since this move. Ruined about 3 RR's prior to changing to UST.
 

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In my experience with both tires...

if you're running in sharp rocks neither tire is really what you're looking for although in my experience i think the nokian could hold up better to a tear than my racing ralphs as far as sidewalls are concerned.

On the same token though, i think the nokian is more susceptible to knobs tearing/wearing off/unevenly due to rocks and other sharp objects.
 

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Scary Thin sidewall

I run the standard racing ralph and the sidewalls are a little on the thin side I have never torn the sidewalls open but both of my riding /racing partners have an won't run them on rocky courses. I run the Michelin XCR Dry Version 2 ,faster than the RR on our tests and they have a thicker sidewall and if need more traction I put a XCR Mud in front or both front and rear ! Don't let the name fool you the mud was call the '"XL S"before why they called it a mud i don't know ? I guess it's the best in the mud of all the tires in the XCR series of tires so it got the name by default , albeit an excellant alaround tire very fast rolling for the amount of thread just a great tire that is little know !
 

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none is perfect...

mtb_biker said:
In my experience with both tires...

if you're running in sharp rocks neither tire is really what you're looking for although in my experience i think the nokian could hold up better to a tears than my racing ralphs as far as sidewalls are concerned.

On the same token though, i think the nokian is more susceptible to knobs tearing/wearing off/unevenly due to rocks and other sharp objects.
none of the before mentioned tires is really great for rocky terrain:
both Nokian and Schwalbe have pretty weak sidewalls with the Schwalbes beeing the worse when it comes to sidewall cuts but the Nokian suffers from knobs ripped out of the casing under hard braking (slides). the Michelins are some of the worst when it comes to durability in rocky terrain. where i spend my biking holidays (that's in the italian Toscana) the Michelins don't last at all with the knbs virtually ripped off in no time. also UST tires don't last at all. we had guys running Michelins which were left "teethless" after just a couple of rides. on the other hand you won't see me using Nokians there as well.

hardpack yes, sharp rocks : no

but regadless of this:
in rocky terrain a tubelesskit is a MUST! just my 2nd cents.
 

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I once repaired a 1" cut in a UST RR during a marathon race. Glad it was my bike, but the lady that made it to 4th at the finish line after me spending 10-15mins on the job. That's what team mates are for... Repaired it with an empty power gel.
 

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good + bad

bhsavery said:
how do those michelins work with tubeless kits like stans or eclipse
Michelins have really huge tolerances. some fit thight on rims which makes them an easy fit with tubelesskits, others are really wide and sometimes a pain to get sealed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I should have made it clear that I know neither of these tires will stand up to rocks very well compared to many other tires out there. However, I have only had one rock problem with my Ralphs in about 3 months of riding, which I find acceptable. In addition, I'm racing with these tires, and I can use all the rolling-help I can get. The michelins don't strike me as a good option, because Notubes doesn't like their bead (and I don't want the weight or extra resistance of a UST).

So, focussing on the Ralph and NBX, it seems like so far I've got two votes for the NBX being the better of the two for sidewall cuts. However, Axis II tells me that he had trouble with the NBX cutting on his first day out, though he likes the Ralph.

Can anyone else put in their vote?

Thanks.
 

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I have tried both tires and can't really comment on their sidewall strength cos I haven't had trouble with either of them. If you are trieng to decide between the two, you should also consider that their grip levels are different. I didn't like racing ralph on front at all. Nbx lite feels much more secure. Also the schwalbe is frighteningly slippery on wet asphalt. Noticed this when trying to run from the rain, in top gear. :rolleyes:

I am currently running nbx lite 2.2 front and racing ralph 2.1 rear and really like this setup. When the 2.1 wears out I may get a rr 2.25 for the rear.

Regards,
Jari

(My first post)
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Nino or anyone else with NBX experience,

Do you think the knobs-ripping-off problem was just a bad batch of tires or is it a consistent problem that I can count on running into? It doesn't cause the tire to deflate if running tubeless, does it? I guess it would happen less on a front tire?

Thanks for the feedback everyone.
 

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Tire cuts just happen.

Just because someone cut a tire on their first ride, doesn't mean the tire is prone to being easily cut. Cuts from rocks are so unpredictable that it would take a HUGE sample size to generalize about any given tire. If you hit a sharp rock just the right way, it will cut just about any rubber tire!

Lighter, thinner tire casings will be cut more easily than thicker ones. Also, soft rubber does cut more easily, so soft tires will certainly wear out faster than harder ones. Soft rubber tires are usually much more fun to ride though!
 

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Jesseg said:
Nino or anyone else with NBX experience,

Do you think the knobs-ripping-off problem was just a bad batch of tires or is it a consistent problem that I can count on running into? It doesn't cause the tire to deflate if running tubeless, does it? I guess it would happen less on a front tire?

Thanks for the feedback everyone.
well - i had it happen 2 times only. they didn't get ripped out completely but you could see little cuts right in the front of the knobs...with tubelesskit ythere is no air loss however when the bike was sitting overnight you could tell where these little cuts were because they became humid from the water that seems to come through in these spots. we don't have sharp rocks over here but several guys reported from this when they used it on rocky ground. i can't tell if that was an old batch only. all i know is the NBX got heavier. it's hard to find a 450g tire these days. most are around 500g and this added weight is rubber...so i sure think they got better in this departement. i intend to visit the swiss distributor and weigh all of them to pick some light ones though. just as i did with the Schwalbe tires where i found tires lighter by 80g within the same size!

but - if you are a racer you definitely should have a try! the Nokian is so fast it's unreal. have your stopwatch ready! differences in rolling resistance are usually hard to tell. but the added speed is there and if you have a computer you can even see you are going faster.
 

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I'll 2nd the michels as being fast, ok for cuts, but the XCR knobs wear really fast. they chunk out in only a couple of rides on hard rocky terrain. I've tried the xcr dry's and the xtreme, a couple sets. I had one xcr replaced by warranty because after one ride they were chuncked severely.

As far as sidewall cuts got, IRC's are the only tire I've never cut. My sidewalls look terrible, with cords frayed and string dangling, but I've NEVER cut an IRC. The worst I've ridden is the eXCeption line form Maxxis. In one ride I had 5 cuts in my rear tire, tube bulging out and all. I was determined to get some more miles out of that tire, so a lot of duct tape went into it's repair. It was a miracle that I didin't flat! Now I'm on the IRC Mibro, and I'm very happy with the tread wear, durablitly and traction, although I feel they are not the fastest tire around. My rear has worn to "semi-slick" state so it's much faster!

As far as tubeless goes, I'd had to respectfully dissagree with Nino. Tubless in my experience has never helped prevent air loss on a sidewall cut. And I'm very pro tubless, whatever kit you use (stan's or eclipse). All my cuts have been at least 1/2" long (12.7mm to you metric people) and sealant will do nothing to prevent a flat, but make a repair (put a tube in) immensely difficut. Putting a tube in is like tryng to catch a greased pig! Not only that, but if you let the slimy tube fall out and touch the dirt, now you have sand and grime stickign everywhere making a real mess. And duct tape won't stick to the inside of the tire to cover the cut (I always carry duct tape in my saddle bag). But, my flats are probably 95% from thorns, and that's where tubless with sealant really shines.

BM
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
nino said:
all i know is the NBX got heavier. it's hard to find a 450g tire these days. most are around 500g and this added weight is rubber...so i sure think they got better in this departement. i intend to visit the swiss distributor and weigh all of them to pick some light ones though. just as i did with the Schwalbe tires where i found tires lighter by 80g within the same size!
You may know this already, but most manufactured products tend to get heavier until the molds are redone. Each use of a manufacturing mold tends to slightly expand it, which lets in more material, which makes it heavier. I learned this when talking to Dave of Speeddreams about bike rims. On second thought, I don't know that much about tire manufacture, so what I say may only apply to forged items.
 
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