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steep fast and loose :)
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Extended seatstay lenths on the Helius range compared to Turner and SC whom utilise a linkage plate.
Will / Does this extended seatstay lenth lend itself to un-due / extra flex ?
Can't say my AM is flexy, but it's an observation on the design.

Thoughts ?
 

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steep fast and loose :)
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
jerky - you're as bad as me across the Nic & Turner boards :eekster:

i can't feel flex, but i am suffering severe pedal strike consequent to BB height...

any other AM riders out there with an opinion ?
 

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I'm not surprised you're suffering pedal strikes, that's fairly low. How high was your previous bike?

It took me over half a year to get used to my UFO, which sits about 13" off the ground! If both ends bottom out the bashing hits the floor first. Once you're used to it you won't want to go back to higher bikes. I ran 165mm cranks for a year, which helped things alot. I recently swapped back to 175s and I've not suffered pedal strikes. The riding time on 165s seems to have removed old bad habits so I can now cope with normal length cranks.
 

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I like my hardtails low... If I have some loose money at some point, I should really get a Helius AM, so that I'd have a low FS bike too :D

... hmmm, I dont recall people often thinking that their Nicolais are too flexy ...
 

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steep fast and loose :)
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
there's no noticeable flex, but the length of the seatstay [girder like though it is] , suggests some flex will be inherent. the saving grace is the pivot rocker is short and tight, aiding any flex issues.
the BB is low, but the pedal strike seems due to the Monarch 4.2 blowing through it's mid-stroke.....................mmmmm.........
 

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I had similar problems with pedal strikes on my SC Nomad running an '07 DHX Air - just didn't seem to have any effective damping in the mid part of the stroke, and would trap-door through the mid-stroke on even small dips in the trail, with resultant pedal strikes, Swapped to a coil which seemed to help a lot, giving a much more linear feel to the travel. Looks like a new shock for you!
 

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My Nucleon suffered from pedal strikes until I had the Shock sorted by TFT. The Fox pro-pedal pish was part of the problem which made the shock pack down into it's travel. I got the PUSH race system fitted and the whole bike changed masively for the better. I have also fitted a slightly longer fork recently which has also helped. Although when bottoming both of them out I can still hit the pedals off the ground:thumbsup:

I'm not a fan of Air shocks in any way. One chap I know with a Fox DHX Air was informed by TFT and Fox/Mojo (at the Mega) that there was not much you can do with an air shock to get rid of the habit they all have of blowing through the mid stroke - apparently it's to do with the forces required to overcome the friction created by the seals and the pressure they hold. Once this friction has been overcome (or it's direction changed) the increased force is released which makes the shock blow through the travel in it's new direction more than desired. If you try and fix this with increased compression/rebound damping you increase the risk the shock will not be able to react to larger impacts or will pack down.

Flex? I can see how the design would lend itself to the posibility of flex... longer leverage = greater forces etc. So yes, shorter would be less flexy, but if you can't feel any then:confused:
If you get any play in the bushings/bearings you will feel it though:madman:

Should have got the 12mm bolt through:D (and a spring shock:D :D) and smaller frames always flex less so you should have bought the smallest size:eekster:
 

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steep fast and loose :)
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
12mm bolt thro is a no-no (non adaptable chris king hubs, a tendency to puncture and ease of car boot access issues), AM is my lightweight all-duty bike, so no coil overloading weight, and the medium is a girls size for my 6' and dangling build, otherwise, all good options.
mid stroke blow through is not apparent using the new HV RP23, so I'll get one of them in a week or two to try. certainly, Fox have mid-stroke controlled, and interestingly, a number of top DH'ers from Mojo and Dirteam are running the RP23 in preference to the DHX next season, so it should prove suficiently capable for my limited skill abilities. interesting that that's the case for 2009, whereas 2008, the DHX ruled ?
I'll give Flooksie a ring next week to discuss the Monarch odd performance.
fair point regarding increased air pressure affecting HSC or pack-down dependant on setting. however, after a few blasts down the Pitfichie DH course on Saturday, the shock is now operating better on floodgate 5-ve. much improved pedalling performance, yet still super plush un-locked for the steeps. I'm also about to receive a 57mm stroke Monarch from Nicolai UK in a few weeks, so will experiment with that too.
 

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The_Lecht_Rocks said:
mid stroke blow through is not apparent using the new HV RP23, so I'll get one of them in a week or two to try. certainly, Fox have mid-stroke controlled, and interestingly, a number of top DH'ers from Mojo and Dirteam are running the RP23 in preference to the DHX next season, so it should prove suficiently capable for my limited skill abilities. interesting that that's the case for 2009, whereas 2008, the DHX ruled ?
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The DHX never ruled. I recall an issue of dirt a couple years back with one fitted to the Mojo boys 224s but funnily enough, they were back to running coil shocks at races and uplifts very quickly. If the team who also run the fox importers don't think they work, that tells you alot. A handful of friends have had frames with the dhx air over the last couple years and they all swapped to a coil shock.

I've used a RP23 myself and it did work well on rough terrain but it couldn't cope with big hits and it's rebound was never controlled when doing really big stuff. I've read the HV RP23 blows through it's travel, much like the old dhx.

Personally I wouldn't touch air shocks. Air forks seem to perform close to coil but shocks are miles apart from their coil friends. I think it's down to simple physical size. A rear air shock has limited volume running at high pressure and has to deal with a leverage system. Forks have no leverage acting on them 1:1 ratio and much large volume air spring and larger oil damping circuits.

A friend who is a faster DH racer than myself really rates his push tuned Van shock (non-piggy back) running in his reign which he uses for racing. I'm sure one of these with a ti-spring will be close to an air shock for weight.
 

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steep fast and loose :)
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
solamanda - i can't go back to a coil shock on the AM. I ran a Cane Creek Double Barrel on the 6 Pack to excellent results, but the AM is about a light weight approach to 6" enduro style riding.
however, if I but a new DW 5 Spot, then the AM can go heavier duty with coils front and rear :D

btw - when I say Mojo are going from DHX to RP23 Float, I was talking DHX COIL. so rumour has it anyway....
 

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from 0 - sideways 3.2 sec
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I find my RP23 excellent and i've always hated air shocks! I didnt have any hope in it when i got it i thought it would be a temp measure but to be honest it does exactly what i need it too, the AM feels completley planted on everything i've ridden altho i dont do any big jumps/drops just really trail riding.

As for the Float 36's all i can say is they blow away the vanilla's imho which amazes me every time i ride!

Just my 2p worth.
 
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