REVIEWS DEALS BIKESHOPS TRAILS

News for Padre

802 Views 6 Replies 3 Participants Last post by Padre, Jul 22, 2004

jl

Discussion Starter · Jul 21, 2004

Padre,

I talked to Devin Lenz and he said that he could easily build a Leviathan with either a 25.5" TT or a 26" TT. It would just take a deposit.

By the way he's going to start his next batch of Leviathans next week.

I don't know if that is big enough for you, but I thought you'd be interested.

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Aaah good, so custom head angle and a bit more rear travel are still totally out of the question, right?...right...?
I'm trying to be cautious with my cashflow right now, and MikeC just keeps posting the most gorgeous bike pics ever. Oh man, I want that bike sooo baaad! If it were 100mm rear and had a bit steeper head angle (daren't go that slack), I'd already have made that deposit for the earlier production.
Sure that bike would be tough enough for a guy his might? It's actually lighter than what I was looking for myself, and I'm half the man he is.

jl said:
Padre,

I talked to Devin Lenz and he said that he could easily build a Leviathan with either a 25.5" TT or a 26" TT. It would just take a deposit. By the way he's going to start his next batch of Leviathans next week.

I don't know if that is big enough for you, but I thought you'd be interested.

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Padre

· #3 · Jul 22, 2004

Heck yesss!
Yeah.. someone from Lenz emailed me with this exact info.
I would love it! I'll be buying a FS geared 29er sometime in the next 6 months.
Obviously, the list of options is limited, but that will be at the top of my list!
I'm wondering how to keep the wheelbase under control while stretching out the cockpit..
hmmm....

jl said:
Padre, I talked to Devin Lenz and he said that he could easily build a Leviathan with either a 25.5" TT or a 26" TT. It would just take a deposit. By the way he's going to start his next batch of Leviathans next week.I don't know if that is big enough for you, but I thought you'd be interested.

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Cloxxki

· #4 · Jul 22, 2004

Padre, I take you use standard 175 or 180mm cranks? With long legs as you probably know, you can handle a slacker seat angle than midgets, and still end up with a good knee/pedal position. This is due to the fact that standard cranks are closer together than adult inseam lengths. With a nice setback seatpost, providing you like the position, you could shorten the rear end of the bike (lesser climbing, better in tight singletrack), as well as add to the spec'd top tube length.
The standard Lenz head tube angle is, I believe, 70º with an 80mm fork, which puts the front wheel quite a bit in front of the headtube. If you could persuade them to make it 71º for a 100mm fork, you'd have both the added travel as well as the shorter wheelbase.
Owning an XL Fisher, I know that a 113cm wheelbase really isn't that much of a disaster. i can still keep up with smaller riders on 26" on the tightest of singletrack. Bar width is more of a restriction than wheelbase IMO.
If wheelbase is a concern to you, put a setback setpost on to add to the top tube (the standard bike may end up close to perfect) and see what can be done with the head angle. Though, for serious DH'ing, I'm sure slacker is better. Lenz does come from a DH background, doesn't he?
Also worth considering is ideal stem length. If you can handle a longer stem (say 130mm) without suffering too much with endo factor, you can do with less toptube, thus less wheelbase.
For a guy your size, I once help spec that first Duratec hardtail (455mm stay to make safe), and it still came out at only 112,5cm, shorter than my Fisher, though the chainstay was 15mm longer and the top tube identical. BikeCAD2000 www.bikeforest.com will give you insight in such measurements. What your ideal top tube and stem size, at which seat angle and seat position? Work from there, and if you're puzzled, drop me line.

Good luck,

J

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Padre

· #5 · Jul 22, 2004

Whoa! You are the man to see on this issue....
Yes, I run 180 cranks. Not sure I'd continue that trend onto the geared squishy bike. That would depend on BB height.
They layback post would be good as long as the rest of the geometry would not be thrown off. My brain tells me that using a layback post would make the bike pedal uphill like my Bullit w/ a 7" travel Marz Super T.
113cm on your Fish eh?
My Vulture with it's KM rigid fork is running a wheelbase of 116cm or to use a good 'ol American measurement, 45 inches. When the CX-1 is thrown on in between trips back to the shop, the WB drops to 114-115 to 44.5 inches.
I like the 45" wheelbase but fear it couldn't really go longer than that without causing handling problems.
Currently running a 130mm stem. I have no handling problems at all and no endo factor. But ultimately, I'd love to see a longer top tube and have the pleasure of running an 80-100mm stem instead.
Going to check out Bike Forest.
Thanks!

Cloxxki said:
Padre, I take you use standard 175 or 180mm cranks? With long legs as you probably know, you can handle a slacker seat angle than midgets, and still end up with a good knee/pedal position. This is due to the fact that standard cranks are closer together than adult inseam lengths. With a nice setback seatpost, providing you like the position, you could shorten the rear end of the bike (lesser climbing, better in tight singletrack), as well as add to the spec'd top tube length.
The standard Lenz head tube angle is, I believe, 70º with an 80mm fork, which puts the front wheel quite a bit in front of the headtube. If you could persuade them to make it 71º for a 100mm fork, you'd have both the added travel as well as the shorter wheelbase.
Owning an XL Fisher, I know that a 113cm wheelbase really isn't that much of a disaster. i can still keep up with smaller riders on 26" on the tightest of singletrack. Bar width is more of a restriction than wheelbase IMO.
If wheelbase is a concern to you, put a setback setpost on to add to the top tube (the standard bike may end up close to perfect) and see what can be done with the head angle. Though, for serious DH'ing, I'm sure slacker is better. Lenz does come from a DH background, doesn't he?
Also worth considering is ideal stem length. If you can handle a longer stem (say 130mm) without suffering too much with endo factor, you can do with less toptube, thus less wheelbase.
For a guy your size, I once help spec that first Duratec hardtail (455mm stay to make safe), and it still came out at only 112,5cm, shorter than my Fisher, though the chainstay was 15mm longer and the top tube identical. BikeCAD2000 www.bikeforest.com will give you insight in such measurements. What your ideal top tube and stem size, at which seat angle and seat position? Work from there, and if you're puzzled, drop me line.
Good luck,
J

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Cloxxki

· #6 · Jul 22, 2004

Huh? You KM fork makes your bike THAT much shorter? I expected a few mm, not a whole half inch.
The 7" Super T feeling, I think, comes from the often accompanyen reallllly soft rear suspension and kiddy-heigth seat. What's the specs of your Vulture, angles and effective TT? You could see what happens when you slide the seat half an inch aft, and get a half inch shorter stem. The front wheel will be around the next corner that way, but the rear end shortens up. I wonder how the padaling would feel in that situation for you. If it's all good, the TT may not even have to be a quarter mile long, you get part of the length out of slight setback (keeping the frame short 'n stiff?) and a slightly longer stem. Again, that's only if wheelbase is your #1 concern. Okay, you're a big feller, but don't think a custom FS that fits you well would HAVE to be much longer than your Vulture. For me, 114-115 doesn't scare me, knowing how well the Fisher hardtail performs. I'm a chicken DH, and a loooong bike with slacker angles and suspension should help me quite a bit, even if I still only use 70% of the design's DH capacity. My FS would be built for marathons (often not so technical, but high-speed descends over gravel and worse) and silly-bumpy XC races. A well setup 100/100mm 29" FS should make more of a difference on a half mile root garden than it could ever lose over the rest of the 3-mile course.
If you're going custom, and you know a good custom crank maker, the step to 195mm or 200mm could be made in the same project, using 20mm less BB drop in the frame. That's what the Duratec rider did, he went from 175mm to 195mm. After 4 weeks of breaking them (and his knees) in, he never looked back.

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Padre

· #7 · Jul 22, 2004

No no... that KM fork makes the wheelbase 1/2" longer not shorter! The axle to crown height is relatively the same as the cx-1 as far as I can tell but the rake is kicked out much more.
I don't think the 195/200mm cranks are for me. I tried Shiggy's for a little while. Dang! Those are some big circles that the legs make!
My Vulture has a toptube in the 24.25"-2.5" range. It could be 1/2 longer without effecting much. I think this is what I'll try.

Cloxxki said:
Huh? You KM fork makes your bike THAT much shorter? I expected a few mm, not a whole half inch.
The 7" Super T feeling, I think, comes from the often accompanyen reallllly soft rear suspension and kiddy-heigth seat. What's the specs of your Vulture, angles and effective TT? You could see what happens when you slide the seat half an inch aft, and get a half inch shorter stem. The front wheel will be around the next corner that way, but the rear end shortens up. I wonder how the padaling would feel in that situation for you. If it's all good, the TT may not even have to be a quarter mile long, you get part of the length out of slight setback (keeping the frame short 'n stiff?) and a slightly longer stem. Again, that's only if wheelbase is your #1 concern. Okay, you're a big feller, but don't think a custom FS that fits you well would HAVE to be much longer than your Vulture. For me, 114-115 doesn't scare me, knowing how well the Fisher hardtail performs. I'm a chicken DH, and a loooong bike with slacker angles and suspension should help me quite a bit, even if I still only use 70% of the design's DH capacity. My FS would be built for marathons (often not so technical, but high-speed descends over gravel and worse) and silly-bumpy XC races. A well setup 100/100mm 29" FS should make more of a difference on a half mile root garden than it could ever lose over the rest of the 3-mile course.
If you're going custom, and you know a good custom crank maker, the step to 195mm or 200mm could be made in the same project, using 20mm less BB drop in the frame. That's what the Duratec rider did, he went from 175mm to 195mm. After 4 weeks of breaking them (and his knees) in, he never looked back.

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