It's a big air chamber.
New Zeb Ultimate. Crazy low pressure is what's needed?
Just upgraded from a 2017 Lyrik that I upgraded to the Charger 2.1 RCT3 and Debonair 2021 internals last year. In that I was running 43psi and 2 spacers. I have a Shock Wiz, so I took a lot of time to perfectly dial it in.
Now, doing the same with the Zeb, I've gone from the SRAM recommend of 54psi down to 34! On my way down to that pressure, kept feeling harsh and Wiz kept saying to release lots of pressure. Now I'm at a score of ~90, feels great. 3 spacers and 1 click back from SRAM recommended rebound. HSC and LSC fully open.
Am I crazy? Is Wiz wrong? Or is the SRAM calculator totally worthless? Makes sense that the added air volume over my Lyrik would result in running lower pressure. But this seems excessive?
Now, doing the same with the Zeb, I've gone from the SRAM recommend of 54psi down to 34! On my way down to that pressure, kept feeling harsh and Wiz kept saying to release lots of pressure. Now I'm at a score of ~90, feels great. 3 spacers and 1 click back from SRAM recommended rebound. HSC and LSC fully open.
Am I crazy? Is Wiz wrong? Or is the SRAM calculator totally worthless? Makes sense that the added air volume over my Lyrik would result in running lower pressure. But this seems excessive?
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Have you tried a higher base pressure with no tokens?
Not sure if you have done this yet, but I would recommend removing the air spring and checking for excess grease or lack thereof. I had the local shop do this and it was pretty dry inside.
Force = Pressure x Area. The large diameter of the Zeb’s air piston means having a lower pressure to result in the same force you would experience with a smaller-diameter fork.
I landed at about 85% of RS’s recommended pressure in my Zeb. The RS settings are about where they should be for good support but end up with a setup with little sag. I found it hard to dial in my Zeb air pressure and was always having to compromise between support and small bump feel. Norco’s recommendations (see setup guide for Range C2) are closer to where I ended up.
The Luftkappe is worth a look. I am a few rides into mine and it has helped with these setup issues.
I landed at about 85% of RS’s recommended pressure in my Zeb. The RS settings are about where they should be for good support but end up with a setup with little sag. I found it hard to dial in my Zeb air pressure and was always having to compromise between support and small bump feel. Norco’s recommendations (see setup guide for Range C2) are closer to where I ended up.
The Luftkappe is worth a look. I am a few rides into mine and it has helped with these setup issues.
I run my 160mm Zeb with no tokens and about 5 PSI higher air pressure than SRAM recommends for my weight. If you don't have a digital pressure gauge I highly recommend it. An analog gauge is not going to be precise enough to reliably get accurate pressure readings.
You were using 43psi in a lyrik? How much do you weigh? How much under the recommended were you on the lyrik?
My understanding is that the zen uses noticeably lower air pressure than the lyrik. So I’d you settled on 43psi for the lyrik, using 34psi on the zen doesn’t sound all that weird to me.
My understanding is that the zen uses noticeably lower air pressure than the lyrik. So I’d you settled on 43psi for the lyrik, using 34psi on the zen doesn’t sound all that weird to me.
43psi in a Lyrik is crazy low, even for 160lbs. Maybe your shock pump is wrong?
What's your rider weight? My guess is that you are chasing the supple dragon and are too far off of the back side of it. this means that you've soften the air spring too much and are smashing into the ramp up and wall of progression at the end of the stroke. My suggestion, mirrors those above. Pull out the volume spacers, start with 45-50 psi. In stock form, the zeb is an active fork and rides very high in it's travel. Ultimately, I wanted a more progressive mid stroke support and a smoother ramp up, so I installed a secus in mine which took some of the pre-load off the air spring.
Now, the luftkappe is available for it, and from the sounds of it, provides about 60-80% of the benefit of the secus with 1/3 the cost and complexity. you're still going to be fighting the ramp up from the air trapped in the lowers, but the initial air spring harshness will be resolved.
Fwiw: my zeb ultimate settings pre-secus, for my 175 (~180 geared) weight were about 58psi, 0-1 token (1 if riding bike parks and jumps), -3 HSC, -7 to -8 LSC and ~ -9 on rebound. Going softer with air spring, and using tokens, caused too much weight transfer and too little mid stroke support (the a1 air springs weren't the best for these for mid stroke support to begin with). I was far better off dealing with a bit of sting in my hands on high speed chop, in order to get the mid stroke support, then I was trying to soften that initial hit and trying to balance it out at the end of the stroke. But, YMMV.
Now, the luftkappe is available for it, and from the sounds of it, provides about 60-80% of the benefit of the secus with 1/3 the cost and complexity. you're still going to be fighting the ramp up from the air trapped in the lowers, but the initial air spring harshness will be resolved.
Fwiw: my zeb ultimate settings pre-secus, for my 175 (~180 geared) weight were about 58psi, 0-1 token (1 if riding bike parks and jumps), -3 HSC, -7 to -8 LSC and ~ -9 on rebound. Going softer with air spring, and using tokens, caused too much weight transfer and too little mid stroke support (the a1 air springs weren't the best for these for mid stroke support to begin with). I was far better off dealing with a bit of sting in my hands on high speed chop, in order to get the mid stroke support, then I was trying to soften that initial hit and trying to balance it out at the end of the stroke. But, YMMV.
What is your weight? The lyrik pressure you were running is also crazy low so the Zeb result isn’t surprising. The Zeb does run low pressures because of the larger piston area too so all up that isn’t surprising
Also, shockwiz isn’t perfect, if you try higher pressure and it feels good then go with it
Also, shockwiz isn’t perfect, if you try higher pressure and it feels good then go with it
Hey everyone. Thanks for all the responses! OK, so answers to your questions:
160lbs kitted.
Fox Digi pump, that correlates to the Shock Wiz which is also digi.
I started with the stock one spacer, and SRAM suggested settings. That was harsh. Shock Wiz also said release a lot of pressure.
As I aired down over laps, I added a second spacer. Things started to feel better and the Wiz reports got better too.
Finally got my Wiz score into the 80's but it kept suggesting another spacer, so I added a third. Settled on the current 34psi and 3 spacers.
When my Lyrik was stock, I ran 2 spacers and 50psi. That felt great and Wiz said it was perfect. When I upgraded to the 2021 damper and spring, I had to lower pressure to 43 to get the same results.
Yes, I pulled the Zeb apart last night to confirm oil/lube which I know can be wonky from factory. I became an anal retentive pro at that over the years with my Lyrik and a Pike on another bike. Happy to report it was basically perfect from the factory, but still cleaned, regreased, reinstalled spring, new 20ml 0w30, etc.
Here's a weird thing. Another guy I've spoken to said he discovered there is a hole on the red plastic head that aligns with one of two holes on the metal shaft. It seems to allow the hollow shaft area to add to negative spring volume. But from factory it is not aligned. Mine was not aligned but loosening it slightly lined it up. However, I didn't like that it was not torqued properly. So me and a friend who owns a shop called SRAM. Third level of support, the top suspension guru guy, stated that it had no effect at all. Didn't equivocate at all. Totally said it has no effect. So I erred on the side of caution and torqued correctly with the hole covered up.
This is on a 2017 Specialized Enduro, all stock form other than the now new Zeb.
160lbs kitted.
Fox Digi pump, that correlates to the Shock Wiz which is also digi.
I started with the stock one spacer, and SRAM suggested settings. That was harsh. Shock Wiz also said release a lot of pressure.
As I aired down over laps, I added a second spacer. Things started to feel better and the Wiz reports got better too.
Finally got my Wiz score into the 80's but it kept suggesting another spacer, so I added a third. Settled on the current 34psi and 3 spacers.
When my Lyrik was stock, I ran 2 spacers and 50psi. That felt great and Wiz said it was perfect. When I upgraded to the 2021 damper and spring, I had to lower pressure to 43 to get the same results.
Yes, I pulled the Zeb apart last night to confirm oil/lube which I know can be wonky from factory. I became an anal retentive pro at that over the years with my Lyrik and a Pike on another bike. Happy to report it was basically perfect from the factory, but still cleaned, regreased, reinstalled spring, new 20ml 0w30, etc.
Here's a weird thing. Another guy I've spoken to said he discovered there is a hole on the red plastic head that aligns with one of two holes on the metal shaft. It seems to allow the hollow shaft area to add to negative spring volume. But from factory it is not aligned. Mine was not aligned but loosening it slightly lined it up. However, I didn't like that it was not torqued properly. So me and a friend who owns a shop called SRAM. Third level of support, the top suspension guru guy, stated that it had no effect at all. Didn't equivocate at all. Totally said it has no effect. So I erred on the side of caution and torqued correctly with the hole covered up.
This is on a 2017 Specialized Enduro, all stock form other than the now new Zeb.
I had a 190 zeb and i was running 30 psi below recommended, your setup seems completly normal to me
You mention "laps", does that mean at the bike park? Body position will affect the weighting of the bike and subsequently the fork and so if you have a very rear-biased riding position, like that at a DH park, the SW may be interpreting that lack of weight over the fork in it readings thus recommending the unusually low reading. I too tuned my 38 at the park and got some fairly low PSI suggestions, but it works since it suits the way this bike is ridden. Contrast that to my XC/trail bike where i'm adding more psi than the manual suggests since i'm constantly situated over the bars on that bike.
Zeb Ultimate on my Revel and I am running 60psi in the fork and it feels amazing!! The chart on the back of the fork says 72-80 psi for a 200lb rider.
First test day was at Thunder Mountain. There's a trail that's more XC single track down the mountain, old school New England style. I used that rather than the bigger faster stuff. Second day was a more XC trail network but I chose a up/down loop for the laps to get consistent reads. I guess I'm not actually complaining, just a bit perplexed.You mention "laps", does that mean at the bike park? Body position will affect the weighting of the bike and subsequently the fork and so if you have a very rear-biased riding position, like that at a DH park, the SW may be interpreting that lack of weight over the fork in it readings thus recommending the unusually low reading. I too tuned my 38 at the park and got some fairly low PSI suggestions, but it works since it suits the way this bike is ridden. Contrast that to my XC/trail bike where i'm adding more psi than the manual suggests since i'm constantly situated over the bars on that bike.
Regardless of the pressure, I will mirror what others have stated in the thread, but will share some of my data
Rider weight - 185-188lbs
Lyrik Ultimate C1 air shaft 160mm
Air pressure 78PSI with 2 tokens
Zeb Ultimate Silver Air shaft 160mm
Air pressure 52-55PSI with 0 tokens
Rockshox trailhead app recommends 72 PSI
Future edit:
Zeb air pressure is up to 61 psi
Rider weight - 185-188lbs
Lyrik Ultimate C1 air shaft 160mm
Air pressure 78PSI with 2 tokens
Zeb Ultimate Silver Air shaft 160mm
Air pressure 52-55PSI with 0 tokens
Rockshox trailhead app recommends 72 PSI
Future edit:
Zeb air pressure is up to 61 psi
Some people here must have some poorly functioning shock pumps or never leave the ground...
For me, running the Zeb at RS’ recommended pressure resulted in support I was happy with, but the fork just sat too high. I like my fork a bit more settled into its travel to hold the trail. I was also struggling a bit with staying on top of the front wheel in corners on my slack bike, and the high ride wasn’t helping.Some people here must have some poorly functioning shock pumps or never leave the ground...
Going softer definitely resulted in sub-optimal support, but I preferred it mainly for geometry reasons. On bigger hits, the Zeb does a good job of not bottoming hard, in spite of the reduced spring rate.
As I said, the Luftkappe has addressed my issues. The fork settles into its travel more off the top but then provides good mid-stroke support. I no longer need to run the fork under-sprung.
These are the issues I've been messing with. The Luftkappe sounds like a good solution. Thanks for sharing your experience!For me, running the Zeb at RS’ recommended pressure resulted in support I was happy with, but the fork just sat too high. I like my fork a bit more settled into its travel to hold the trail. I was also struggling a bit with staying on top of the front wheel in corners on my slack bike, and the high ride wasn’t helping.
Going softer definitely resulted in sub-optimal support, but I preferred it mainly for geometry reasons. On bigger hits, the Zeb does a good job of not bottoming hard, in spite of the reduced spring rate.
As I said, the Luftkappe has addressed my issues. The fork settles into its travel more off the top but then provides good mid-stroke support. I no longer need to run the fork under-sprung.
Yeah there is enough clearance for the air to get through, absolutely do NOT run your air piston any less than the factory torqueHey everyone. Thanks for all the responses! OK, so answers to your questions:
160lbs kitted.
Fox Digi pump, that correlates to the Shock Wiz which is also digi.
I started with the stock one spacer, and SRAM suggested settings. That was harsh. Shock Wiz also said release a lot of pressure.
As I aired down over laps, I added a second spacer. Things started to feel better and the Wiz reports got better too.
Finally got my Wiz score into the 80's but it kept suggesting another spacer, so I added a third. Settled on the current 34psi and 3 spacers.
When my Lyrik was stock, I ran 2 spacers and 50psi. That felt great and Wiz said it was perfect. When I upgraded to the 2021 damper and spring, I had to lower pressure to 43 to get the same results.
Yes, I pulled the Zeb apart last night to confirm oil/lube which I know can be wonky from factory. I became an anal retentive pro at that over the years with my Lyrik and a Pike on another bike. Happy to report it was basically perfect from the factory, but still cleaned, regreased, reinstalled spring, new 20ml 0w30, etc.
Here's a weird thing. Another guy I've spoken to said he discovered there is a hole on the red plastic head that aligns with one of two holes on the metal shaft. It seems to allow the hollow shaft area to add to negative spring volume. But from factory it is not aligned. Mine was not aligned but loosening it slightly lined it up. However, I didn't like that it was not torqued properly. So me and a friend who owns a shop called SRAM. Third level of support, the top suspension guru guy, stated that it had no effect at all. Didn't equivocate at all. Totally said it has no effect. So I erred on the side of caution and torqued correctly with the hole covered up.
This is on a 2017 Specialized Enduro, all stock form other than the now new Zeb.
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
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