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Here is a quote from the Marathoner Killed in Accident thread..

"That's really sad. If the reports are right this would be a rare fatal cycling accident where the cyclist is the only one actually at fault, very sad."

I think you are dead wrong. Most accidents are caused by cyclists OR could have been avoided by alert cyclists. I ride on the road too. And I used to drive a lot during prime rush hours. Usually going into the sun in the am and into it in the pm going home. I saw many recreational cyclists without lights, riding sidewalks in the wrong direction, bike lanes wrong direction, brakes not adjusted (yes- they were bad enough that my trained eye could see the 1/2" gap on either side of the rim while in motion-on a gas powered bike no less.) I watched a dude commute down Union Hills west bound into the sun every afternoon wearing no helmet, dark maroon and black clothing on a blacked out bike with no lights. Very hard to see and soon to be a statistic (and a true "cyclist"). Lets not forget the drunk bikers, dui evaders and just plain idiots of all flavor.

Most accidents are caused because of a harmless interaction between bike operator and car operator. Bikes are such the minority on the road, and the average driver may not know the "rules- written and implied". We as "realish" cyclists should know the rules because we are the ones with the greatest risk.

Mitigate your own risk- leave drivers alone. BTW- I will slowy blow stop lights and flat out haul ass through reds if I see a sane opening. My risk.
 

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City of Mesa conducted a study on bicycle related accidents in it's city and a startling number were the cause of the cyclist especialy riding on the wrong side of the road. I read it a few months back and don't have the link, but can be found on www.mesaaz.gov the stat was so high and after almost tagging a bike rider in the cross walk at night I changed my riding habit.
 

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Meatbomb
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Yeah, whenever I see someone riding against the traffic and on the sidewalk I want to try to educate them on the added risk they taking .... but you can't make people think.
 

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Maui Grown
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Please educate me, why is riding on the sidewalk more dangerous? I actually prefer to ride on the sidewalk, seems a lot safer to me than to take the risk of riding on the actual street. I’m not a road rider or a commuter, but when I ride around my neighborhood, I always stick to the sidewalk if possible.
 

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Poi Boy said:
Please educate me, why is riding on the sidewalk more dangerous? I actually prefer to ride on the sidewalk, seems a lot safer to me than to take the risk of riding on the actual street. I'm not a road rider or a commuter, but when I ride around my neighborhood, I always stick to the sidewalk if possible.
Here's a clue... SIDE WALK, not SIDE RIDE. The sidewalk is buiilt for and dedicated to pedestrians, people on foot, not vehicles, like your bicycle, which is obligated to follow all motor vehicle code rules and regulations of the road. Now if you want to walk your bike on the side walk, that would then make you a pedestrian.
 

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Poi Boy said:
Please educate me, why is riding on the sidewalk more dangerous? I actually prefer to ride on the sidewalk, seems a lot safer to me than to take the risk of riding on the actual street. I'm not a road rider or a commuter, but when I ride around my neighborhood, I always stick to the sidewalk if possible.
Because most morotists that are pulling into traffic rarely stop short of the sidewalk, and rarely are they looking out for cyclists riding on the sidewalk.

That said--and I too will ride on the sidewalk if I'm riding my cruiser on a busy street--if you must ride on the sidewalk, you should never ride against traffic, and you should be extremely defensive, and assume *nobody* sees you. Make yourself as visable as possible.
 

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Poi Boy said:
Please educate me, why is riding on the sidewalk more dangerous? I actually prefer to ride on the sidewalk, seems a lot safer to me than to take the risk of riding on the actual street. I'm not a road rider or a commuter, but when I ride around my neighborhood, I always stick to the sidewalk if possible.
Cars tend to not notice a bicycle on the sidewalk.
If you are in the bike lane, yes you are more exposed, but you are also more noticeable.

ALSO - VERY IMPORTANT - since its technically illegal to ride on the sidewalk, if a car does hit you, dealing with insurance if you are injured could be more difficult. Same thing with RIDING in a crosswalk. I speak from experience here.

I know its morbid to think of being hit on your bike, but just like riding a motorcycle, you have to plan for the eventuality.
I follow the rules of the road, use the bike lane. I've been hit twice (both not my fault), but doesn't stop me...
 

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RandyBoy said:
Here's a clue... SIDE WALK, not SIDE RIDE. The sidewalk is buiilt for and dedicated to pedestrians, people on foot, not vehicles, like your bicycle, which is obligated to follow all motor vehicle code rules and regulations of the road. Now if you want to walk your bike on the side walk, that would then make you a pedestrian.
You didn't answer his question.

(What happened to the classy RandyBoy?)
 

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parenting for gnarness
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cstem said:
Here is a quote from the Marathoner Killed in Accident thread..

"That's really sad. If the reports are right this would be a rare fatal cycling accident where the cyclist is the only one actually at fault, very sad."

I think you are dead wrong. Most accidents are caused by cyclists OR could have been avoided by alert cyclists. I ride on the road too. And I used to drive a lot during prime rush hours. Usually going into the sun in the am and into it in the pm going home. I saw many recreational cyclists without lights, riding sidewalks in the wrong direction, bike lanes wrong direction, brakes not adjusted (yes- they were bad enough that my trained eye could see the 1/2" gap on either side of the rim while in motion-on a gas powered bike no less.) I watched a dude commute down Union Hills west bound into the sun every afternoon wearing no helmet, dark maroon and black clothing on a blacked out bike with no lights. Very hard to see and soon to be a statistic (and a true "cyclist"). Lets not forget the drunk bikers, dui evaders and just plain idiots of all flavor.

Most accidents are caused because of a harmless interaction between bike operator and car operator. Bikes are such the minority on the road, and the average driver may not know the "rules- written and implied". We as "realish" cyclists should know the rules because we are the ones with the greatest risk.

Mitigate your own risk- leave drivers alone. BTW- I will slowy blow stop lights and flat out haul ass through reds if I see a sane opening. My risk.
I don't get your point. Why are you blaming cyclists for accidents? I don't consider cars turning left when I have right of way a harmless interaction. Whether my alertness and cat-like skills could avoid an accident is not the point. Most of the accidents I almost have are because some dbag is on their iphone or simply doesn't care about following the laws. leave the stupid cyclists to their fate, how bout not apologizing for bad\illegal drivers?
 

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Maybe MVD should have more questions regarding bikes & sharing the road with vehicles. Seems this is more about people being aware then just dbags on a cell phone. We assume since we all ride. That everyone else understands bike & motor vehicle share the same streets & laws.

Seems to me this is brought up because someone recently made a mistake. In doing so it was a fatal mistake. One asses the risk when riding their bikes. Be it road or mountain. I decide if I want to ride a busy street with no lane or drop in something that could cause injury. Only one watching out for me when riding is me.
 

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Maui Grown
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I understand that it is a SIDE WALK. I didn't ask you to educate me on what it is for. My point is that it is SAFER to ride on the sidewalk rather than the road.

If I get hit by a car on the sidewalk, that means the vehicle has left the road and jumped the curb, so I'm sure I would be worse off if I were in the bike lane or on the street. Also, I'm sure that dealing with insurance (if I'm not dead) will not be an issue.

I understand the point of a vehicle not seeing a cyclist while pulling into traffic, but if I'm entering/crossing a street or intersection, I make sure there are no vehicles present or I make damn sure that I yield or they see me. Same rules I follow when I'm a pedestrian taking a walk with my family.
 

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sandbagger
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cstem said:
Here is a quote from the Marathoner Killed in Accident thread..

"That's really sad. If the reports are right this would be a rare fatal cycling accident where the cyclist is the only one actually at fault, very sad."

I think you are dead wrong. Most accidents are caused by cyclists OR could have been avoided by alert cyclists. I ride on the road too. And I used to drive a lot during prime rush hours. Usually going into the sun in the am and into it in the pm going home. I saw many recreational cyclists without lights, riding sidewalks in the wrong direction, bike lanes wrong direction, brakes not adjusted (yes- they were bad enough that my trained eye could see the 1/2" gap on either side of the rim while in motion-on a gas powered bike no less.) I watched a dude commute down Union Hills west bound into the sun every afternoon wearing no helmet, dark maroon and black clothing on a blacked out bike with no lights. Very hard to see and soon to be a statistic (and a true "cyclist"). Lets not forget the drunk bikers, dui evaders and just plain idiots of all flavor.

Most accidents are caused because of a harmless interaction between bike operator and car operator. Bikes are such the minority on the road, and the average driver may not know the "rules- written and implied". We as "realish" cyclists should know the rules because we are the ones with the greatest risk.

Mitigate your own risk- leave drivers alone. BTW- I will slowy blow stop lights and flat out haul ass through reds if I see a sane opening. My risk.
ok so the quote from the marathoner is only the frist sentence correct ?
 

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Meatbomb
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My point was more to the act of riding against traffic AND on the sidewalk. When a driver reaches a stop sign they will look left first and if turning right may never even look to the right. They will not see or expect a bike to be coming at them from that direction .
 

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Saucy Size
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Poi Boy said:
Please educate me, why is riding on the sidewalk more dangerous? I actually prefer to ride on the sidewalk, seems a lot safer to me than to take the risk of riding on the actual street. I'm not a road rider or a commuter, but when I ride around my neighborhood, I always stick to the sidewalk if possible.
It is massively more dangerous, and bike accident statistics support this. Consider:

* Inattentive drivers. When you're on the road, you demand a car driver's attention. When you're on the sidewalk, you're ignorable.

* When you're crossing an intersection or a driveway pullout, you're less visible up in the sidewalk area than when you're out in the road with the rest of the traffic.

I'd rather be visible and pissing off drivers than invisible and ignored by oblivious drivers.

p.
 

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Paul B said:
It is massively more dangerous, and bike accident statistics support this. Consider:

* Inattentive drivers. When you're on the road, you demand a car driver's attention. When you're on the sidewalk, you're ignorable.

* When you're crossing an intersection or a driveway pullout, you're less visible up in the sidewalk area than when you're out in the road with the rest of the traffic.

I'd rather be visible and pissing off drivers than invisible and ignored by oblivious drivers.

p.
...that is half of it. The cyclist also has a better view/angle from the road, and has more options for evasive action.
 

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Poi Boy said:
I understand that it is a SIDE WALK. I didn't ask you to educate me on what it is for. My point is that it is SAFER to ride on the sidewalk rather than the road.

If I get hit by a car on the sidewalk, that means the vehicle has left the road and jumped the curb, so I'm sure I would be worse off if I were in the bike lane or on the street. Also, I'm sure that dealing with insurance (if I'm not dead) will not be an issue.

I understand the point of a vehicle not seeing a cyclist while pulling into traffic, but if I'm entering/crossing a street or intersection, I make sure there are no vehicles present or I make damn sure that I yield or they see me. Same rules I follow when I'm a pedestrian taking a walk with my family.
I'm with you, Poi. I stay on the sidewalk too.
Randyboy just likes rules, he can't function without them.
 

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airmiller44 said:
ok so the quote from the marathoner is only the frist sentence correct ?
The marathoner didn't say what is quoted in the first sentence. The first sentence is from the other thread about the dead marathoner.
 

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Kathleen in AZ
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I'm with Poi and tmarkos.... I like the sidewalk much better than the road. Because no one actually ever walks on the sidewalks I frequent, I consider them to be my personal empty bike lanes. And I prefer the east sidewalk over the west so I go against traffic when coming home from work. I am always on the defensive and try my best to be alert (except for that time I ran into that truck).
 

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DurtGurl said:
I'm with Poi and tmarkos.... I like the sidewalk much better than the road. Because no one actually ever walks on the sidewalks I frequent, I consider them to be my personal empty bike lanes. And I prefer the east sidewalk over the west so I go against traffic when coming home from work. I am always on the defensive and try my best to be alert (except for that time I ran into that truck).
Can you imagine how many accidents there would be if every cyclist did this (i.e., road against traffic on the sidewalk)?

I understand you need to look out for numeron uno. But I would refrain from suggesting that this is okay.
 

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DurtGurl said:
I'm with Poi and tmarkos.... I like the sidewalk much better than the road. Because no one actually ever walks on the sidewalks I frequent, I consider them to be my personal empty bike lanes. And I prefer the east sidewalk over the west so I go against traffic when coming home from work. I am always on the defensive and try my best to be alert (except for that time I ran into that truck).
Thank you your honor. The prosecution rests it's case.
 
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