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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I need advise on how to make coil suspension playful.

I have a new bike and before I got it I ordered custom suspension: an Avalanche tuned Marcochi Bomber CR, a Smashpot coil conversion and an Avalanche damper for the Yari fork. Sag seems right and I didn’t bottom it out on my shakedown ride, but I had a hell of a time maneuvering the bike and it just soaked up jumps instead of popping.

It was so plush and planted I started hauling and realized I need better brakes. It was super fun but my riding style is more playful and I like to hit every jump I see. The bike felt more like my dads 400 pound ‘95 XR600 dirt bike than my enduro bike. Oh did I forget to mention it’s an ebike? Ya it’s a 54 pound YT Decoy.

So I know I can add some preload and compression or I can go with a higher spring rate. Since I’m not bottoming out I guess I don’t need a higher rate spring?

Also there’s the possibility the way it rides is just the nature of coils on ebikes, I don’t have any experience there. I appreciate your help getting this set up running playful again.
 

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Try speeding up the rebound. Also, I might get this explanation wrong but for low speed compression you can add so much compression it adds pop by significantly reducing how much travel you use or back off the LSC so it's not absorbing as much energy.
 

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Single(Pivot)and Happy
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You ordered custom suspension for a bike that you had never rode, correct? If yes, how did you determine what your new custom suspension was suppose to address?

You don't mention how much your previous bike weighed, but if it was not close to 54 pounds, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess weight being a predominate factor for the lack of "popping."

I don't understand your last sentence: " I appreciate your help getting this set up running playful again." Again? When did it ride "playful?" What have you done set up wise from the last time this 54 pound electric motorized bicycle was "running playful?"
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Stock suspension was air and was decently playful but was somewhat spikey and had bad fade on longer runs. I got entirely new suspension, so got to start somewhere for the tune, right? Just not sure if what I really need is more HSC in the tune, higher spring rate, preload, a combo of these things, or if the heavy bike and coil suspension is just gonna be a plow bike.
 

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I need advise on how to make coil suspension playful.

I have a new bike and before I got it I ordered custom suspension: an Avalanche tuned Marcochi Bomber CR, a Smashpot coil conversion and an Avalanche damper for the Yari fork. Sag seems right and I didn't bottom it out on my shakedown ride, but I had a hell of a time maneuvering the bike and it just soaked up jumps instead of popping.

It was so plush and planted I started hauling and realized I need better brakes. It was super fun but my riding style is more playful and I like to hit every jump I see. The bike felt more like my dads 400 pound '95 XR600 dirt bike than my enduro bike. Oh did I forget to mention it's an ebike? Ya it's a 54 pound YT Decoy.

So I know I can add some preload and compression or I can go with a higher spring rate. Since I'm not bottoming out I guess I don't need a higher rate spring?

Also there's the possibility the way it rides is just the nature of coils on ebikes, I don't have any experience there. I appreciate your help getting this set up running playful again.
Sounds like the coil is doing exactly what it's supposed to. When did it ever seem playful? You mention getting it running playful again, indicating that it was at one point, return there if you did.

Options for making it easier for you to 'pop'.....fast rebound....higher rate spring...or go back to air suspension then you can tune the pressure and settings easier to attempt to make it pop.

Can you adjust your riding style? Maybe you need to consider the weight of the bike and apply the appropriate amount of effort mixed with good timing to compress and unload at the perfect moment to get airborne.

One bike does not do everything well btw
 

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Elitest thrill junkie
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If you aren't going high enough on jumps, you need to go faster.

I run a ton of compression and rebound damping on my avy tuned fork and shock, it seems crazy slow just pushing down on it, but no problems clearing stuff and hitting the flow-lines and jumps. Pedal faster.

I never understood people wanting their bikes to have piss-poor stability so they "pop" up and down. That dipping, diving and dodging is terrible for chassis control and going fast. We programmed a generation with these dumb "open mode" shocks that have no LSC stability.
 

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Single(Pivot)and Happy
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I used to ride a 50lb + Kona Stab Supreme, real Marzocchi 888, no motor. I remember a time I was following a friend at Big Bear and at the bottom of the mountain I asked him, "Hey, how do I set up my suspension like yours? You seem to be popping off everything while I'm bulldozing down the hill." He said,"Gain 50 pounds and hit the gym."

Did you confirm with YT that a coil shock with your custom tuning would work with the suspension design? The service that Craig provides is a real solution that eliminates the need for bandaids, such as higher spring rates and excessive damping. OP describes a suspension scenario that is usually found with a stock suspension set up. And the usual answers would be to seek out a custom tuning solution. Too much here doesn't make sense.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Lol no conspiracy here. Did a short shake down ride. The bike was too planted and plush, it wanted to plow straight and not change direction.

I think the tune of the dampers match the spring rates. I might just need a firmer set up. Not sure if it’s front or back or both. Craig recommended the rate for the shock. I picked the smashpot at 50 lbs/in out of the range of 45-60 lbs/in based on the Vorsprung chart. I may have gone too light. Also I bought the fork cart used from a guy that has the same weight as me + gear + xtra ebike weight. I may need to add some stiffer valving to the base valve and or mid valve. The cart doesn’t have the hsbv so it might be worth sending it to Craig to add hsbv and the firmer valving. For now I’ll open the rebound some and close the compression some and try to isolate the issue better.
 

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Less LSR and LSC. Possibly more spring rate but see how it handles after reducing LSC and LSR.

The problem is with E-bikes that you have more dead chassis weight that needs more damping to control (same issue as Moto, but smaller scale). So you can't go as light and playful feeling as a #enduro bike without causing yourself some issues.
 

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Elitest thrill junkie
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Lol no conspiracy here. Did a short shake down ride. The bike was too planted and plush, it wanted to plow straight and not change direction.

I think the tune of the dampers match the spring rates. I might just need a firmer set up. Not sure if it's front or back or both. Craig recommended the rate for the shock. I picked the smashpot at 50 lbs/in out of the range of 45-60 lbs/in based on the Vorsprung chart. I may have gone too light. Also I bought the fork cart used from a guy that has the same weight as me + gear + xtra ebike weight. I may need to add some stiffer valving to the base valve and or mid valve. The cart doesn't have the hsbv so it might be worth sending it to Craig to add hsbv and the firmer valving. For now I'll open the rebound some and close the compression some and try to isolate the issue better.
I've never seen a spring rate recommendation from a manufacturer that holds up in riding, there's just too many variables, how much of your weight is centered at what location, stem length for distribution, how hard you ride, weight of miscellaneous things like packs, and so on. Those recommendations are good starting points, and easily modified with air shocks, but with coils it's not uncommon to have to go up or down at least 50lbs right off the bat, if not more.
 

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I need advise on how to make coil suspension playful.

I have a new bike and before I got it I ordered custom suspension: an Avalanche tuned Marcochi Bomber CR, a Smashpot coil conversion and an Avalanche damper for the Yari fork. Sag seems right and I didn't bottom it out on my shakedown ride, but I had a hell of a time maneuvering the bike and it just soaked up jumps instead of popping.

It was so plush and planted I started hauling and realized I need better brakes. It was super fun but my riding style is more playful and I like to hit every jump I see. The bike felt more like my dads 400 pound '95 XR600 dirt bike than my enduro bike. Oh did I forget to mention it's an ebike? Ya it's a 54 pound YT Decoy.

So I know I can add some preload and compression or I can go with a higher spring rate. Since I'm not bottoming out I guess I don't need a higher rate spring?

Also there's the possibility the way it rides is just the nature of coils on ebikes, I don't have any experience there. I appreciate your help getting this set up running playful again.
I felt the same when switched from monarch+ rc3 db to fox dhx2 coil.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I felt the same when switched from monarch+ rc3 db to fox dhx2 coil.
For sure, I've gone through this before too on the rear going from the monarch+ to a tuned Kage for my wreckoning. I ended up goin up 50 lbs/in on the spring and adding a couple turns of preload. It turned out to be the best of both worlds: plush and playful.

But I've never owned a coil fork.

While I appreciate all the replies there's lots of conflicting advice above. I know Dougal knows what he is talking about. Gonna try opening the lsc and lsr without going so far as to make it unstable. I'd like to get it feeling more lively without having to buy new springs or send it off to be re-tuned.

Thanks everyone. Here are some dirty bike pics:
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
Made some tweaks, got some solid results. I used the logic of more lsc for support and less lsr for more active rebound. It started nose diving off lips even when I tried harder to make it pop. Then following Dougal’s advice I opened up the lsc from 3/4 closed to 1/4 closed. It felt A LOT better. The timing for hitting jumps became more like what I’m used to and it actually responded to my added preload off lips. I think I might want more spring rate, but gonna wait till I do some park. It’s still so incredibly supple I’m not worried about making it too firm.
 

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Yeah, typically open up the LSC for more pop. Depending on your definition of pop... you can go the other way if you can wind on enough LSC or use a climb switch to make it more like a hardtail but that kinda defeats the purpose of having a full suspension.
 

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Ive switched back and forth from coils for some years now, and have never experienced what you're stating from going air to coil. I think what the coil spring actually does is significantly overstated lately. Its cool and all, but it doesnt mute the bike in the way you're describing.

My ISX6 air shock did exactly what you're saying though. It was glued to the ground and difficult to pop off anything. Jacking up the spring rate didnt change that. Thats all in the damping, mostly rebound.
 
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