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New Project 321 rear hub leaking oil. Now sounds much louder.

33K views 246 replies 41 participants last post by  ShooterMcDally 
#1 ·
I received my new hub a few weeks ago and noticed oil all over the hub. It's the "quiet" version and it did sound quiet at the time. I had the wheel built around it and now the hub is much louder. I'm assuming it's because most of the remaining oil leaked out as the hub still shows signs of oil leakage. I contacted Project 321 about it, but they basically told me not to worry about it and ride it.
What's the point of adding more oil if it's going to leak out?
I'd like to open it up and investigate, but P321 doesn't have a manual for the new hub. Tips?
 
#3 ·
Why not ask P321 if the new hub disassembles like the older version, there is a video on their website?

I don't care what component I install I always verify fluid / lubes (brakes, suspension forks, hubs etc.) Pop off the freehub and relube using an approved oil.

I wouldn't gauge a hub's sound level until the lube has settled. Any new hub will be much quieter until it breaks in.
 
#6 ·
Obviously the oil level has dropped to the point where it's much louder than it was when I received it. I'm beginning to regret purchasing this hub knowing it's going to need a disassemble/"refill" every week to enjoy one of the features I bought it for> Quiet.
Oil dripping down the spokes onto the rim isn't a feature I asked for.
I never had a hub leak oil like this does.

This video demonstrates how my hub sounded (quiet) when I first received it and how it sounds today (1st loud cut) about a month later after the oil leaked out. Not my video
So, in reality, it's the quiet version when it has oil and the louder version after it leaks out.
 
#7 ·
Did you mention all these points when you contacted 321? If so i'd call again and talk to someone else, if possible, maybe you will receive different info. Irregardless oil all the way to the spokes say's something isn't right. The way I look at it you have 2 options disassemble yourself to inspect the seal or ship the wheel off to 321.

Where did you purchase the hub?
 
#8 ·
here's the link to the new drive system, internals, and oil bath. this is just a press release type of thing, they haven't updated the website yet.

Project 321 - New Drive System

also, Pumpkinbiter (aka Jake) works at Project 321. You could PM him and see what he has to say?

I'm very interested in how this works out, I'm about to buy the SS version of this hub for my new build. Suddenly I'm a little hesitant. I just called today to get some details, almost placed my order...
 
#13 ·
Looks like the only thing holding the oil in is that thin red rubber face seal visible in the second picture down. And the oil can also escape between the axle and inner race. IMO, oil loss is inevitable in with this design. Skip the oil and use a little thin light grease, or maybe a little Phil's Tenacious Oil, as you would with other pawl type freehubs.
 
#10 ·
I have 2 brand new high POE hubs in front of me right now I9 Torch & Profile Racing Elite. Upon dissasembly you could barley moisten a paper towl w/ tha amount of oil in both hubs. Most high POE I have worked on required only a small amount of low viscosity oil.

As I mentioned you would have to have a real oil seal to contain oil in the hub - how does the 321 seal look?

I just noticed quiet version uses different pawls. Do yours look like the quiet version :Project 321 - New Drive System
 
#12 ·
Dude, seriously... Stop trying to put this on him and do a google search. P321 stated to the media that the holes were intended to hold a fill of oil. Not a mist, not a smear...
Obviously his wheel wouldn't have oil all over it if they hadn't filled it up that way at the factory.
 
#16 ·
Installed the new seal and put in the oil last night. I just got home from work, checked the hub and there's a drip coming down from where the seal is hiding. Maybe this is normal? I'm curious how much oil loss will occur when I'm riding. I'll find out soon enough. For non use days, I'm gonna have to remove the rear wheel and lay it down to prevent leakage. Not impressed. Phil's Tenacious Oil is coming tomorrow, but I can't use it. ;)
After closer examination the oil is dripping down my spokes. 6-8" down. The oil they recommend, Dumonde, it way too thin.
 
#17 ·
dude, seriously? drip of oil anywhere on my wheel is a no go. IMO this also means that your rotor and brake pads get contaminated each ride. I thought this was a nice inovation I might try myself, that was before I knew this thing is filled with a lot of oil.

I can take my old hubs and stuff them full with grease making them very silent.

anyway, thanks for your report, I wish you success returning this junk. I am definitely not getting these myself. as stated before the only silent and less drag hub remains onyx for me.
please let us know how this ends.
 
#21 ·
When I suggest Phil's Tenacious Oil I wasn't expecting that it'd stay in the hub, only that enough of it would stick the the pawls to keep them sufficiently lubricated. If they expect a quantity of oil to be retained in the hub, they'll need better seals.
 
#22 ·
As others have mentioned, I have never seen a hub that is sealed to the point that there could be an oil bath in the drive area. Also, the notion that you could do such a thing on a hub with "tool-less" end caps seems tenuous at best. I would re-lube with a drop of tenacious oil on each pawl, and keep riding.

Edit: I just noticed in the pictures on their website that the end caps, on the hub in question, are keyed. So that would lend a little bit of credence to the oil bath idea. I'm intrigued.
 
#23 ·
As others have mentioned, I have never seen a hub that is sealed to the point that there could be an oil bath in the drive area. Also, the notion that you could do such a thing on a hub with "tool-less" end caps seems tenuous at best. I would re-lube with a drop of tenacious oil on each pawl, and keep riding.
I'm not saying your wrong, but one would think they successfully did many, many hours of real world testing before releasing this to the public. I hope.

Suspension forks hold oil for years... usually.
 
#25 ·
1-They only recommend Dumonde oil. Any other voids the warranty.
2-All of the Dumonde oil leaks out turning the "Quiet" version into the regular in a very short time.
-Using the Dumonde resulted in oil leaking out all over the spokes and rim. Dumonde is too thin to remain on the pawls after leakage to have any noise reduction benefit.
-Either my hub is defective (already replaced the seal) and the rest don't leak (Still haven't heard from other users) or the lube recommendation is wrong (May be more of a low temp concern by P321). I'm currently testing the CK lube. No sign of leaking anywhere so far. My biggest concern with CK is spawl function/performance since its less of an oil and more of a very thin grease in viscosity.
 
#26 ·
I was about to pul the trigger on a SS specific P321 silent as well. I'm hesitating now that your saying it has leaking issues.
I've run CK's before and for the last 10 years only Hadley's. They use Dumonde Tech Zero weight grease too. I ride A LOT 4-6x a week, oil doesn't leak but my hubs get louder and dry out about every 4-6 months(just the rear hub)
I just make sure to service them frequently.
Lemme know how it goes, I would really like to try them and use in my rotation between my 2 single speeds.
 
#30 ·
Interesting that P321 hasn't responded (if that's still the case).

They had a big spotlight on mtbr homepage and now they're dropping the ball... Bad move on their part to not provide good customer service.

I had a I9 hub with the defective bearings from a couple years ago and they sent me a whole new freehub no questions asked.

My guess from a lack of response is that, they don't have a solution to the problem.
 
#32 ·
Interesting that P321 hasn't responded (if that's still the case).

They had a big spotlight on mtbr homepage and now they're dropping the ball... Bad move on their part to not provide good customer service.

I had a I9 hub with the defective bearings from a couple years ago and they sent me a whole new freehub no questions asked.

My guess from a lack of response is that, they don't have a solution to the problem.
Hi Toot!
I have been in constant contact with customer since he made initial contact with us. We immediately sent him two replacement seals, a tool, and a few bearings if I remember correctly. Our customer service is as good as its ever been however we are busier than ever and our response times have slowed as a result. Normally I would hand this off to a tech who would have better response times than me but since this was a very unusual situation I wanted to stay involved. Anyway, you can expect the same customer service your used to getting with Project321.
 
#37 ·
I have 2 sets of P321 216 quiet boost Hubs with a 3rd set of 12/157 rear hub coming from Jake as soon as I get my Pivot Switchblade frame, I also have Onyx, Hadley and dt swiss 240 and 350 hubs. Total of 6 sets of carbon wheel sets with a 7th coming. Anytime I ever had a question Jake has been there or one of his employees to answer my questions every time. There constantly striving to improve their product, in my opinion the new magnetic paul system is so much better than the old system. If I were to bet if you to remove all the oil from the hub and take it out on the trail you would probably not here the hub while riding, spinning the wheel with your ear right next to it of course you hear that. People are fast to make judgments on something they know nothing about. Project 321 now uses Japanese EZO bearings that are so much better than the old bearings like I said always trying to make improvements. Project 321 are my go to Hubs now!! Onyx are also very good but way much more weight, we all have many choices!!
 
#39 ·
Mine don't leak, but have gotten louder with miles.

It's not really problematic, but I did purchase (nearly) silent hubs which I no longer really have.

Apparently 321 is relocating from CA to OR (good move) and I have been unable to reach them at their 800 number or by email going on about 3 business days now.

I'm curious if there is a solution, like I should be greasing the rear paws once a month or something. Something I have no idea how to do for the record.
 
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