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No no...the OTHER LA.
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well, lots of questions before this frame is completely built up, anyway. :)

Just got a mint-condition Procaliber frame off Ebay for a great price. Now I've got a beautiful frame, but no idea of the exact procedure to build it up. I've never installed a headset. I've never ran cables from scratch. I've never installed, much less bled, a hydraulic brake. But I've got newly purchased tools, inspiriation, a great resource (internet) and am technically inclined. I've rebuilt automotive engines, brakes, suspension, etc without great bodily harm. So, I think I can handle this. Hopefully you guys can help me along in this journey. Thanks in advance. :D

So, what I need at this point is general pictures of the cable routing. In addition, here are the first batch of questions:

1. Seat post is 27.2, correct?
2. I'll probably go with a standard 25.4 handlebar... any reason to go oversize?
3. Is the front derailleur standard top mount? I am used to the cable coming in straight down the seat tube, but can't find the cable mount. Looks like its on the lower tube?
4. Any words of wisdom that differentiate building up this frame from any other?

I'm almost done with a build spreadsheet. Parts will be spec'd from 3 different sources (including ebay...ugh), with an eye towards cost savings. Looks like I'll be at 25 pounds even by the time it's all said and done. Will post the build specs soon, for comments.

Richard
'02 RM Element - soon to be backup ride
'06 GF Procaliber - hopefully soon to be mobile
 

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Vaginatarian
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5,686 Posts
RichardinLA said:
Well, lots of questions before this frame is completely built up, anyway. :)

Just got a mint-condition Procaliber frame off Ebay for a great price. Now I've got a beautiful frame, but no idea of the exact procedure to build it up. I've never installed a headset. I've never ran cables from scratch. I've never installed, much less bled, a hydraulic brake. But I've got newly purchased tools, inspiriation, a great resource (internet) and am technically inclined. I've rebuilt automotive engines, brakes, suspension, etc without great bodily harm. So, I think I can handle this. Hopefully you guys can help me along in this journey. Thanks in advance. :D

So, what I need at this point is general pictures of the cable routing. In addition, here are the first batch of questions:

1. Seat post is 27.2, correct?
2. I'll probably go with a standard 25.4 handlebar... any reason to go oversize?
3. Is the front derailleur standard top mount? I am used to the cable coming in straight down the seat tube, but can't find the cable mount. Looks like its on the lower tube?
4. Any words of wisdom that differentiate building up this frame from any other?

I'm almost done with a build spreadsheet. Parts will be spec'd from 3 different sources (including ebay...ugh), with an eye towards cost savings. Looks like I'll be at 25 pounds even by the time it's all said and done. Will post the build specs soon, for comments.

Richard
'02 RM Element - soon to be backup ride
'06 GF Procaliber - hopefully soon to be mobile
front deraillier M971 xtr, cable runs under top tube, under bb and up to deraillier, youlll need a plastic guide that screws into the bb
I would be carefull about cable routing, on my first ride the brake and rear deraillier cables rubbed through the paint to bare metal, right where the bike pivots, when it pivots the cables rub the chainstay.
make sure you have a 3" loop at the rear brake because that will rub the chainstay there
I'm still trying to figure out the rear deraillier cable, on the web site they have it on the right side, but on the bike it seems better on the left, but then everything is on the left
good luck on 25lbs.
I've got xtr shifters, derailiers, cassette, race lite x wheels, race face cranks, time atac pedals, thompson stem , bontrager post, wtb devo seat and fox talas fork total, is just over 27lbs , if I went to the sid fork I could get it down to 25 maybe
 

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No no...the OTHER LA.
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342 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks Dan0!

Any reason why a X.9 downpull FD would not work?

Regarding the plastic guide that screws into the BB, I think I found out what that black plastic thing is that is screwed into the bottom of the BB. Duh. It has two routes for cables though... I assume only one is needed?

With the frame geometry and cable guides of the procaliber, is there any reason one could not use full-length shifter cables? I've got 7 feet of kevlar alligator shift housing/cables on the way.

I'm rather frustrated now, as I have some pics of the current state of frame. But, they are trapped in the digital camera- as I can't find the friggin' USB cable. argh. Hopefully I can get some pics up soon.

Lastly, here is my current build plans:

Component Brand Weight
Shifters X.9 262
Front Der. X.9 178
Rear Der. X.9 260
Crank XT 960 860
Brakes Juicy Five 900
Cassette SRAM/M760 265
Seat Post Easton EC70 200
Wheelset Oddsandendos 1600
Stem Sette 120
Handlebars Sette 180
Headset Cane Creek S3 112
Pedals shimano 350
Shift Cables Flak Jacket/Alligator 100
Chain PG971 300
Seat WTB Laser V 260
Grips cane Creek lock-on 104
Fork Manitou R7 Platinum 1630
Tires Panaracer Razer 1000
Tubes Ultralight PV 300
Frame GF 19" 2375
Total weight grams 11356
Converted weight 25.34821429

Ok, that table sucks. I tried tabs, spaces, etc. It all is ignored and the spacing looks like crap. hmph. Oh well, with creative reading you can make out what I'm trying to get across.

What am I missing? Probably what it boils down to is that all the gram specs I pulled off internet are +10% (once real weights set in), bringing weight to 27. I sure was hoping for sub-26.

Richard

dan0 said:
front deraillier M971 xtr, cable runs under top tube, under bb and up to deraillier, youlll need a plastic guide that screws into the bb
I would be carefull about cable routing, on my first ride the brake and rear deraillier cables rubbed through the paint to bare metal, right where the bike pivots, when it pivots the cables rub the chainstay.
make sure you have a 3" loop at the rear brake because that will rub the chainstay there
I'm still trying to figure out the rear deraillier cable, on the web site they have it on the right side, but on the bike it seems better on the left, but then everything is on the left
good luck on 25lbs.
I've got xtr shifters, derailiers, cassette, race lite x wheels, race face cranks, time atac pedals, thompson stem , bontrager post, wtb devo seat and fox talas fork total, is just over 27lbs , if I went to the sid fork I could get it down to 25 maybe
 

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SS Pusher Man
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7,623 Posts
RichardinLA said:
Thanks Dan0!

Any reason why a X.9 downpull FD would not work?

Regarding the plastic guide that screws into the BB, I think I found out what that black plastic thing is that is screwed into the bottom of the BB. Duh. It has two routes for cables though... I assume only one is needed?

With the frame geometry and cable guides of the procaliber, is there any reason one could not use full-length shifter cables? I've got 7 feet of kevlar alligator shift housing/cables on the way.

I'm rather frustrated now, as I have some pics of the current state of frame. But, they are trapped in the digital camera- as I can't find the friggin' USB cable. argh. Hopefully I can get some pics up soon.

Lastly, here is my current build plans:

Component Brand Weight
Shifters X.9 262
Front Der. X.9 178
Rear Der. X.9 260
Crank XT 960 860
Brakes Juicy Five 900
Cassette SRAM/M760 265
Seat Post Easton EC70 200
Wheelset Oddsandendos 1600
Stem Sette 120
Handlebars Sette 180
Headset Cane Creek S3 112
Pedals shimano 350
Shift Cables Flak Jacket/Alligator 100
Chain PG971 300
Seat WTB Laser V 260
Grips cane Creek lock-on 104
Fork Manitou R7 Platinum 1630
Tires Panaracer Razer 1000
Tubes Ultralight PV 300
Frame GF 19" 2375
Total weight grams 11356
Converted weight 25.34821429

Ok, that table sucks. I tried tabs, spaces, etc. It all is ignored and the spacing looks like crap. hmph. Oh well, with creative reading you can make out what I'm trying to get across.

What am I missing? Probably what it boils down to is that all the gram specs I pulled off internet are +10% (once real weights set in), bringing weight to 27. I sure was hoping for sub-26.

Richard
I have found that the Sram front derailluers do not work well on Santa Cruz single pivot bikes.....the Procaliber is essentially a copy of the Superlight, so it may not work. Just run a XT front derailluer...bottom swing/dual pull....no problems, guarenteed.:thumbsup:
 

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Vaginatarian
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5,686 Posts
RichardinLA said:
Thanks Dan0!

Any reason why a X.9 downpull FD would not work?

Regarding the plastic guide that screws into the BB, I think I found out what that black plastic thing is that is screwed into the bottom of the BB. Duh. It has two routes for cables though... I assume only one is needed?
yeah, the longer one, just flip it around. if you go full jacket I dont think it will work though

With the frame geometry and cable guides of the procaliber, is there any reason one could not use full-length shifter cables? I've got 7 feet of kevlar alligator shift housing/cables on the way.
you will need to either drill out or get adapters

I'm rather frustrated now, as I have some pics of the current state of frame. But, they are trapped in the digital camera- as I can't find the friggin' USB cable. argh. Hopefully I can get some pics up soon.

Lastly, here is my current build plans:

Component Brand Weight
Shifters X.9 262
Front Der. X.9 178
Rear Der. X.9 260
Crank XT 960 860
Brakes Juicy Five 900
Cassette SRAM/M760 265
Seat Post Easton EC70 200
Wheelset Oddsandendos 1600
Stem Sette 120
Handlebars Sette 180
Headset Cane Creek S3 112
Pedals shimano 350
Shift Cables Flak Jacket/Alligator 100
Chain PG971 300
Seat WTB Laser V 260
Grips cane Creek lock-on 104
Fork Manitou R7 Platinum 1630
Tires Panaracer Razer 1000
Tubes Ultralight PV 300
Frame GF 19" 2375
Total weight grams 11356
Converted weight 25.34821429

Ok, that table sucks. I tried tabs, spaces, etc. It all is ignored and the spacing looks like crap. hmph. Oh well, with creative reading you can make out what I'm trying to get across.

What am I missing? Probably what it boils down to is that all the gram specs I pulled off internet are +10% (once real weights set in), bringing weight to 27. I sure was hoping for sub-26.

Richard
Yeah I think its a little heavy too, but I got mine free after My sugar broke, so no complaining, this bike rocks though, really grips and climbs well . I'm going to gradually go all xtr and if I'm feeling real rich I might get the carbon stem
 

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No no...the OTHER LA.
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342 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Slow progress...

Finally got some pics off the camera, though they aren't the best.

Things are progressing along. I've got just about everything needed for the build, minus wheelset (1600 gram WTB wheelset coming in from oddsandendos.com). I am just about ready to install the fork, just need a few spacers. I've got a headset press ready to go. Should I press in the lower and upper tube cups without the bearings, then insert bearings after they are pressed or press in the cups with bearing installed? Headset is Cane Creek S3.

I found a great deal on XT shifter group, so am going that route instead of planned X.9 stuff. Weight is just about the same, hopefully it will give good results. Of course, just about all components received have weighed in higher than advertised. Handlebar/stem combo was almost 100 grams heavier than expected! But, with new weights factored in, my excel spreadsheet still puts total weight at 25.8 pounds. This assumes that the wheels, fully loaded with panaracer razer tires, tubes and strips come in at 2900 grams.

Can't wait to start wrenching on the bike. More questions sure to come.
 

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The topswing Front derailluers will clamp too high on the seatpost tube, possibly interfering with the swingarm.
Press the headset cups in with out the bearings - though it may not matter. You might want to have your LBS do it if they have the Headset press tool - it will ensure that the headset is in straight and works well. Check Parktool.com for lots of helpful bike building info. I have the same bike (stock Pro Cal) and it's great, though I may be selling it. Newborns cost money!
 

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No no...the OTHER LA.
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Wheee

The fun starts! I got my last box of parts in the mail a couple days ago and am just about ready to assemble this beast. Here's a status update:

First pic is headset cups being pressed in. Couldn't get myself to buy a Parks tool, found this on ebay for $20. Very useful tool, has fittings for both 1 1/8" and 1" headsets.

Second pic is after fitting fork and placing spacers. Found a not-so-bad height and am ready to cut fork down a bit. Cutting tool of choice - Dremel with fiber reinforced cutoff wheel. Worked like a champ!

Last pic is after I cut the fork and smoothed it, then fit it back in the frame and headset is complete. Also decided to show new handlebars with lock-on grips. First time I've tried the lockons. First impression is NICE - shouldn't had the rotational problems of standard grips.

Stay tuned! Next set of pics will address cable routing. I am still going to try full-length cable runs, and will take pics. Hopefully it will go smoothly.
 

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Vaginatarian
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RichardinLA said:
Finally got some pics off the camera, though they aren't the best.

Things are progressing along. I've got just about everything needed for the build, minus wheelset (1600 gram WTB wheelset coming in from oddsandendos.com). I am just about ready to install the fork, just need a few spacers. I've got a headset press ready to go. Should I press in the lower and upper tube cups without the bearings, then insert bearings after they are pressed or press in the cups with bearing installed? Headset is Cane Creek S3.

I found a great deal on XT shifter group, so am going that route instead of planned X.9 stuff. Weight is just about the same, hopefully it will give good results. Of course, just about all components received have weighed in higher than advertised. Handlebar/stem combo was almost 100 grams heavier than expected! But, with new weights factored in, my excel spreadsheet still puts total weight at 25.8 pounds. This assumes that the wheels, fully loaded with panaracer razer tires, tubes and strips come in at 2900 grams.

Can't wait to start wrenching on the bike. More questions sure to come.
not only do I have the exact same frame, but I also have thesame snowblower

Fisher told me the Fd is xtr 971 , but top clamp deraillier wont work, I got a xtr 970, works great, now I have xtr F&R derailliers, race lite tl wheels, xtr shifters 07, xtr brake lever 07
easton carbon bar, xt brakes, studded tires 27lbs.
 

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I'm surprised that there is a water bottle mount on the underside of the downtube. I could never imagine placing a water bottle in that area as you would be putting in your mouth all the crap coming up from your front tire. And there's the whole clearance issue when your trying to ride over big objects.
 

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The second water bottle mount could come in handy as a battery holder - it has a very low center of gravity. It could be used for a second bottle, but you'd probably want to clean it before you used it - basically finish your first bottle, then switch positions. As far as clearance goes - if you get a log that far up between your front wheel and your chain rings, it's safe to say that you wouldn't clear it anyhow.
BTW: Richard, are you running your fork at 80 or 100 mm? I'm tempted to replace the SID WC on mine with a 100 mm fork and am curious how it rides. Anyone want a SID WC? I'm asking $500. Low miles.
 

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No no...the OTHER LA.
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342 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
dan0 said:
not only do I have the exact same frame, but I also have thesame snowblower

Fisher told me the Fd is xtr 971 , but top clamp deraillier wont work, I got a xtr 970, works great, now I have xtr F&R derailliers, race lite tl wheels, xtr shifters 07, xtr brake lever 07
easton carbon bar, xt brakes, studded tires 27lbs.
'tis a small world, dan0... ariel snowblowers rock! especially for the price...

I ended up with a xt 960 FD and it looks like it will work. I mounted it to the frame and don't notice any clearance/operational probs. True test will be when I get the cables run.

Speaking for cables, it looks like the FD cable runs on the left side of the frame, but there's only one cable guide towards the front of the frame. Is this where the cable housing stops, then the wire cable runs all the way down to the plastic guide under the bottom bracket?

And, the hydraulic cable: I assume the rear cable is held down in the guides by zip lock cables? Is that how yours is? Do you use all five guides for the rear? (three along frame, two along rear triangle) I'm not sure how to get the cleanest look for the front hydraulic. Right now it just goes from the brake lever to the caliper and it looks cheesey. I will probably zip tie it to the upper part of the fork, maybe get one or two of those stick-on guides?
 

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No no...the OTHER LA.
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342 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
kdiddy said:
The second water bottle mount could come in handy as a battery holder - it has a very low center of gravity. It could be used for a second bottle, but you'd probably want to clean it before you used it - basically finish your first bottle, then switch positions. As far as clearance goes - if you get a log that far up between your front wheel and your chain rings, it's safe to say that you wouldn't clear it anyhow.
BTW: Richard, are you running your fork at 80 or 100 mm? I'm tempted to replace the SID WC on mine with a 100 mm fork and am curious how it rides. Anyone want a SID WC? I'm asking $500. Low miles.
Yeah, I'm not sure about that second bottle mount. Might use it occasionally for epic rides, but I think that would be a good spot just to put a tire pump and leave it for that.

I am going to running an R7 Platinum 80mm fork. All my limited research seems to show that this frame just isn't meant for 100mm of travel. Of course, I have yet to hear from anyone who has actually gone for a 100mm and experienced poor handling. So you could be the guinea pig. Go for it! :)
 

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I've herad of plenty of people running the Supercal 29er with the Reba set to 100 with good results, so I figured why not this bike too. The only difference it that the SID seems to have a much shorter Axel to Crown measurement than a Reba set at 100 (more than just the 20 mm difference in travel).
As far as your cables go - you are right about the front derailluer cable.
The super large pictures of the bike on the Fisher site shows them using all 5 hose clip points for the rear brake. One thing is certain, the paint won't last on the top of the swing are for long if you don't do something to prevent cable rub. Mine wore through after the first ride.
I zip tied my front brake line to the crown of the fork and was done with it.
 

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Vaginatarian
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fanghasyou said:
I'm surprised that there is a water bottle mount on the underside of the downtube. I could never imagine placing a water bottle in that area as you would be putting in your mouth all the crap coming up from your front tire. And there's the whole clearance issue when your trying to ride over big objects.
I've got 5 bent and smashed bottle holders from that bracket, Now I finally figured out what its for
 

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Vaginatarian
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RichardinLA said:
'tis a small world, dan0... ariel snowblowers rock! especially for the price...

I ended up with a xt 960 FD and it looks like it will work. I mounted it to the frame and don't notice any clearance/operational probs. True test will be when I get the cables run.

Speaking for cables, it looks like the FD cable runs on the left side of the frame, but there's only one cable guide towards the front of the frame. Is this where the cable housing stops, then the wire cable runs all the way down to the plastic guide under the bottom bracket?

And, the hydraulic cable: I assume the rear cable is held down in the guides by zip lock cables? Is that how yours is? Do you use all five guides for the rear? (three along frame, two along rear triangle) I'm not sure how to get the cleanest look for the front hydraulic. Right now it just goes from the brake lever to the caliper and it looks cheesey. I will probably zip tie it to the upper part of the fork, maybe get one or two of those stick-on guides?
heres some pics of mine, note the bad rubbing spots
 

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Vaginatarian
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kdiddy said:
I've herad of plenty of people running the Supercal 29er with the Reba set to 100 with good results, so I figured why not this bike too. The only difference it that the SID seems to have a much shorter Axel to Crown measurement than a Reba set at 100 (more than just the 20 mm difference in travel).
As far as your cables go - you are right about the front derailluer cable.
The super large pictures of the bike on the Fisher site shows them using all 5 hose clip points for the rear brake. One thing is certain, the paint won't last on the top of the swing are for long if you don't do something to prevent cable rub. Mine wore through after the first ride.
I zip tied my front brake line to the crown of the fork and was done with it.
Be careful with the zip tie on the crown, I did that with my fox 36 and it wore a groove in the crown over 1/8" deep. check out the cable pics I did below for alternate ways to tie the zip cable so it wont rub
 
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