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In my area most insurers have a limit $ / bike.
For recreation i consider any bike over 5,000$US out of my league.
It would cost me at least 300$ to insure it each year and 4-5 months it would collect dust due to snow. Even buying it used, but each choose what they are confortable with.
 

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These were the bikes I was looking at: Tazer, Decoy, Levo, Giant, Trek and Shuttle.
I wanted reasonable weight, that took out the Giant. I wanted at least 150mm rear travel, that took out the shuttle. What's left was Decoy, Trek and Tazer. When I was buying, the Decoy and latest Trek was not out. The Tazer was in my backyard, so the Tazer it is and I love it.
The Shuttle is such a good looking bike and I love their color selections as well. Only if it had 150mm of rear travel and I may have bought it.
 

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These were the bikes I was looking at: Tazer, Decoy, Levo, Giant, Trek and Shuttle.
I wanted reasonable weight, that took out the Giant. I wanted at least 150mm rear travel, that took out the shuttle. What's left was Decoy, Trek and Tazer. When I was buying, the Decoy and latest Trek was not out. The Tazer was in my backyard, so the Tazer it is and I love it.
The Shuttle is such a good looking bike and I love their color selections as well. Only if it had 150mm of rear travel and I may have bought it.
Pivot is located here in Tempe a couple of miles away from the rocky technical trails of South Mountain Park. Despite having a centimeter less travel than similar bikes; I’m pretty sure that the new bike is worthy of our hard-earned money.
 

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Pivot is located here in Tempe a couple of miles away from the rocky technical trails of South Mountain Park. Despite having a centimeter less travel than similar bikes; I’m pretty sure that the new bike is worthy of our hard-earned money.
I’ve ridden South Mountain several times, rocky trails pretty much sums it up. I’m sure if I ended up with a Shuttle, I’d be a happy camper.!
 

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I'm sure the bikes are great but you can buy a car for this type of money. So that is a crazy price range to be targeting.
 

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Nice looking bike, appears to be well designed.

I like the battery integration (low and centralized similar to the Levo),
but the size (504Wh) may be a limitation for some folks.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
These were the bikes I was looking at: Tazer, Decoy, Levo, Giant, Trek and Shuttle.
I wanted reasonable weight, that took out the Giant. I wanted at least 150mm rear travel, that took out the shuttle. What's left was Decoy, Trek and Tazer. When I was buying, the Decoy and latest Trek was not out. The Tazer was in my backyard, so the Tazer it is and I love it.
The Shuttle is such a good looking bike and I love their color selections as well. Only if it had 150mm of rear travel and I may have bought it.
The Shuttle, the Levo and Decoy feel like they have the exact amount of travel. I think the Pivot is efficient with the travel cause it sits high on the travel and doesn't bob. Plush too with good pivots. The rear shock is superior too to Levos.

the Decoy feels like it has more travel when it has the Fox X2 rear shock. That is a legit shock indeed. Very active and very tunable. It bobs a bit more than on DPX2 but it's hardly an issue on an ebike.

The Shuttle and the Decoy make every attempt to put the battery lower on the down tube. It makes a difference since older ebikes tended to be front heavy as the battery got close to the head tube. Front/rear balance is a new optimization of ebikes as designers make the weight a little more neutral. This is noticeable when doing drops/jumps/logs. The body adjusts when it's front heavy but it's better when neutral.

I'll try a Tazer. What's good about it?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Nice looking bike, appears to be well designed.

I like the battery integration (low and centralized similar to the Levo),
but the size (504Wh) may be a limitation for some folks.
504wh is killing me now. And the battery is not easy to swap on the field.

One of my groups has 700wh Levos and they have two batteries.

Practically, a 700wh eliminates battery anxiety on 2-3 hour rides. And it makes 4-5 hour rides feasible.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
It's good to see a focus on weight, 45 pounds looks pretty nice. It's important to remember that each 100 Wh of battery weighs about a pound, so bikes with with bigger batteries than the Pivot start out at a 1-2 pound disadvantage. I'd like to see higher capacity options from Shimano.

Blue looks good, though.
Very good guideline. So I've been lobbying for a 300wh battery and I think it's gonna happen.

90% of the time, especially on weekday rides, a rider will not come close to emptying a 700wh battery. That's really a 4-5 hour battery on eco/trail mode.

So why not have a 300-350wh battery for those hour and half rides. That way the bike is 39.9 lbs!!!!!

And on the weekend, use the big battery and put the baby battery in the pack.
 

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My wife has last year's Shuttle in 27+. I asked her about swapping to 29" wheels, which is really just a matter of a different fork or using a tire diameter that fits in the Fox 36, but she said she liked it the way it is.

In my wife's case, she found 29ers to be too tall and offering minimal improvement in ride quality for the kind of riding she does; flow, less technical.

I like 29ers, ride one for XC and was riding one for enduro and tech, they can offer better speed, higher efficiency, and improved obstacle bridging, but with the tall wheels and longer travel comes compromises:higher COG, more stack, reduced standover, etc...

It's a great bike no doubt, my wife was raving about the Shuttle last night to a friend.

Our only complaint with the shuttle is the lack of a water bottle holder.

Oddly enough, my wife's Shuttle is black and spec'd with the performance elite suspension, 160mm travel Fox fork, purchased last winter for 7k out the door, so I suspect our bike was the precursor to the price point bikes.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
My wife has last year's Shuttle in 27+. I asked her about swapping to 29" wheels, which is really just a matter of a different fork or using a tire diameter that fits in the Fox 36, but she said she liked it the way it is.

In my wife's case, she found 29ers to be too tall and offering minimal improvement in ride quality for the kind of riding she does; flow, less technical.

I like 29ers, ride one for XC and was riding one for enduro and tech, they can offer better speed, higher efficiency, and improved obstacle bridging, but with the tall wheels and longer travel comes compromises:higher COG, more stack, reduced standover, etc...

It's a great bike no doubt, my wife was raving about the Shuttle last night to a friend.

Our only complaint with the shuttle is the lack of a water bottle holder.


Oh, my bike is 29er in the front only. 2.6 tire on 27.5 wheel on the rear. This is the baller setup. Slack and low and quick.


The YT Decoy is setup like this box stock and the chainstays can only accept a Plus 27.5 wheel.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
FC

What do you think about the Decoy?
For the money, there is no contest. It is the best.

Price not considered, it's still one of the best. That and the Levo and the Shuttle. It's only weakness is the Shimano motor system. Very good but version 1.0.

1-Francis-30.jpg

2-DECOY Village-3.jpg
 

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Oh, my bike is 29er in the front only. 2.6 tire on 27.5 wheel on the rear. This is the baller setup. Slack and low and quick.


The YT Decoy is setup like this box stock and the chainstays can only accept a Plus 27.5 wheel.
I read that Ghost are doing some called by them *hybrid*.
29 front with 27.5+ rear. I think it is 2.8 but it might be 3.0.
Just from memory but i think the front is 2.4.
They say that avoids the less precise + in front
and prodives lots of traction and cush for HT.
I could not find any in Quebec.
They are with Shimano and the HT is quite light(carbon model).
 

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Very good guideline. So I've been lobbying for a 300wh battery and I think it's gonna happen.

90% of the time, especially on weekday rides, a rider will not come close to emptying a 700wh battery. That's really a 4-5 hour battery on eco/trail mode.

So why not have a 300-350wh battery for those hour and half rides. That way the bike is 39.9 lbs!!!!!

And on the weekend, use the big battery and put the baby battery in the pack.
I think I remember you testing the Focus Jam2 that has an internal 378wh battery. I know for sure since I also own one that it does not weigh 39.9 lbs! I'm not sure on the Pivot going to the E7000 motor at that price point. Add to that the lower capacity battery compared to the Levo and I'm not seeing best value.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I think I remember you testing the Focus Jam2 that has an internal 378wh battery. I know for sure since I also own one that it does not weigh 39.9 lbs! I'm not sure on the Pivot going to the E7000 motor at that price point. Add to that the lower capacity battery compared to the Levo and I'm not seeing best value.
Yeah, E7000 at $8k is far from ideal. I think the Fezzari $3500 got the price point to that level by using that motor? Less torque I believe.
 

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Yeah, E7000 at $8k is far from ideal. I think the Fezzari $3500 got the price point to that level by using that motor? Less torque I believe.
E7000 torque is 60Nm vs. 70Nm for E8000. I've never ridden E7000, but people I know who have ridden both say they would never notice the difference unless you rode two otherwise identical bikes back-to-back.

I agree though, when you can get an E8000 bike for under $4K (BikesDirect HAL-E), cheaping out on the motor at that price point seems, well, cheap. Does anyone know if the E7000 gear internals are the same as E8000? Less power wouldn't be a deal killer but durability might be.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
E7000 torque is 60Nm vs. 70Nm for E8000. I've never ridden E7000, but people I know who have ridden both say they would never notice the difference unless you rode two otherwise identical bikes back-to-back.

I agree though, when you can get an E8000 bike for under $4K (BikesDirect HAL-E), cheaping out on the motor at that price point seems, well, cheap. Does anyone know if the E7000 gear internals are the same as E8000? Less power wouldn't be a deal killer but durability might be.
Thank you for that.

I think one would only notice when climbing those walls like 30% grades at 2mph. The Shimano is legendary there in my book.
 

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Brand new 2020 Shuttle XL XT Build
Carbon Pivot/Reynolds wheels off a Firebird 29
Bike Yoke Revive 185 Dropper w/ wolf tooth level
800 wide 30 rise Renthal Handlebar
Fox GRIP 2 Dampener
Shimano XT 4 piston brakes
Maxxis Assegai 2.5 F/R

This is my first E bike and wow is it fun. I actually like the weight for aggressive descents as it feels more planted. Wil write a full review later.
 

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