[TantrumCycles]

I live/ride in South Florida. Ft. Lauderdale will never make people think of mountains. When I moved here from Reno NV my pals started calling me a flatlander. We have some pretty good MTB parks here, and the trail builders have done a great job of spoiling us. One-way trails with no hikers/horses. Tech enough to use up some brake pads, but enough flow to explore the small cogs. If you consider we don't have gravity to help and it's only pedal power, you can see how it is something to wear out a set of brakes in a year.

Jim,

No real plans to be in Fla anytime soon. Next time for sure will be feb, in the Ft Myers area. Depending on what's left of the state after the governments zika experiment. Just kidding. I think.

 

[TantrumCycles]

Got any plans for local demos? I'm in the Indy area...

Well, it's possible we could go riding sometime. Where's your favorite spot?

 

[TantrumCycles]

Running too linear almost always results in too much reliance on damping, causing spikes and using giant foam bottoming cushions, which are a crappy black art all to themselves. From my personal; bike experience, too linear always required a higher spring rate, or in the case of a coil over, too much preload. Otherwise it would just sag too much.

Before somebody else busts me, of course there are downsides to too much rising rate. For extreme example, if you're running 45% sag and don't use full travel, you probably have too much rising rate.

If you are running 35% sag and not using full travel, do you have too much rising rate? Maybe, but not necessarily.

 

[Haint]

Jim,

No real plans to be in Fla anytime soon. Next time for sure will be feb, in the Ft Myers area. Depending on what's left of the state after the governments zika experiment. Just kidding. I think.

From arguing on the Internet to baiting conspiracy.

Borrowed Time.

 

[lactatofilo]

@TautrumCycle,
I really like the frame and his shapes. I looked at Otburst geometry numbers and my questions are:
*Is It designed around a 150mm fork?
*Fork offset is listed as 37mm. I have 44-45-46-51mm offset forks available in the market, which should work best? What do you think about Ohlins forks for that frame with 551mm lenght and 46mm offset (140mm)
As far as suspension system I only hope It works great in real life. All I ask for is a trouble free and fun bike to ride.
Thanks in advance for the answers.
Cheers (from Argentina)

 

[TantrumCycles]

From arguing on the Internet to baiting conspiracy.

Borrowed Time.

is that why black drones are following me around?

 

[TantrumCycles]

@TautrumCycle,
I really like the frame and his shapes. I looked at Otburst geometry numbers and my questions are:
*Is It designed around a 150mm fork?
*Fork offset is listed as 37mm. I have 44-45-46-51mm offset forks available in the market, which should work best? What do you think about Ohlins forks for that frame with 551mm lenght and 46mm offset (140mm)
As far as suspension system I only hope It works great in real life. All I ask for is a trouble free and fun bike to ride.
Thanks in advance for the answers.
Cheers (from Argentina)

Hi lacto,

it was designed around a 140 mm fork. it currently has 125 mm rear travel in 29er form, although we just came out with a mixed wheel size with the 140mm 29er front end combined with a 165 mm 27.5 rear end.

Also, if you wanted more of an XC application, you could install a 120-130 mm fork, steepen up the rake and save a few grams.

The fork offset listed is out of date. My apologies, we'll correct it with 2017 info.

The good news is the it DOES work great in real life and reliability has been stellar in prototype and production sample testing.

 

[TantrumCycles]

TC, so what happens under standing pedalling (in terms of the physics of the lower link and it's behavior)?

Sorry if you already answered.

The physics are the same. if you are standing to deliver max torque, the suspension will go to full extension, progressively, as torque increases until it is essentially locked out if the effort is sustained and there are no bumps.

BUT, since someone did ask this earlier, if you are standing and pedaling, say on level ground, but you don't really have to, you can make the bike bounce around. If you are truly sprinting at max effort on smooth pavement, the rear shock will not extend like it will on a climb, but will stay solidly at the sag level without bobbing, seated or standing.

 

[TantrumCycles]

Many of the questions that have come up, I've tried to answer in this video. I know it's far from perfect, but I think it definitively shows a few characteristics that are unique and beneficial.

Among the points being illustrated:

1) A smooth, paved climb, where the shock extends fully to give optimum climbing geometry

2) A very rocky climb, showing a very active rear suspension action

3) A very steep climb, starts out smooth, (after compressing at the transition to carry speed) and requires a max, out of the saddle effort, but has some roots near the top that the rear must absorb to maintain traction, despite being max effort.

This last one is especially interesting because it shows the rear go to full extension and briefly "lock out" until it hits the roots. You can see the shock compress quickly to absorb the roots and then go right back to full extension for the rest of the climb, slowly settling back down as the grade decreases at the top.

I welcome any and all comments about how to make the video better. I've shot a ton of footage and it's mind numbing to try to whittle it down to something that actually SHOWS something, instead of being a cool action shot.

 

[Gunnar Westholm]

If you can find a way to film a closeup side by side on how the linkage is working, I think that could help for making the video even more clear on how the suspension is funktioning. Hard to do on freehand I guess.
But maybe you could use a Feiyu Gimbal on an extra long stick or on a suspended and balance boom ťhat can follow the bike closely on an climb that have about the same arch as the boom can cover.

What are you plans for bike demos in Europe?

Skickat från min SM-G900F via Tapatalk

 

[Aglo]

A side by side video would also be good, that way we could better correlate what's happening in the shock and what's happening in the terrain.

 

[hikerdave]

Hi Dave,I can't say for sure it will climb better than your bionicon, as I've never ridden one. How much geo change could you get? But I can say it climbs unbelievably good. One brand PM said "it's more efficient at 160 mm of travel than any bike in our lineup". The bikes you see on our site weigh 29 pounds with pedals, with sort of a mid-build. Final component spec TBD.

But seriously, 9 years on South Mountain? I'd say you got your money worth and then some.

Now, leisurely just ride up over obstacles???? For my personal bike, I'm thinking of putting that cheater motor in my BB, because no matter how good my bike climbs......i just can't seem to pull of leisurely climbs! It does have a nice way of popping up over obstacles. Like when you have to lift the front under power just to get it up and get to the back tire to the obstacle without hitting the chainring.

The Bionicon would change from 67 degrees to 74 degrees in climb mode. Pretty much guarantees disaster to head downhill with the uphill setting.

I think that your bike will be a bit more popular, since there isn't a massive cluster of extra tubes on the front. But I had no reason to buy a new bicycle until it broke.

Hopefully you include 2x10 in the component specification. I bought the lower-end model of my current bike specifically to get that 22 x 36 low gear and at 58 years old and 200 pounds with a lot of hard miles on me I would even like a step lower.

 

[TantrumCycles]

If you can find a way to film a closeup side by side on how the linkage is working, I think that could help for making the video even more clear on how the suspension is funktioning. Hard to do on freehand I guess.
But maybe you could use a Feiyu Gimbal on an extra long stick or on a suspended and balance boom ťhat can follow the bike closely on an climb that have about the same arch as the boom can cover.

What are you plans for bike demos in Europe?

Skickat från min SM-G900F via Tapatalk

I am working on a video where I am just with the bike, with some of the linkage removed. I can clearly show how the forces act on the chainstay and the result of those forces on the shock, through the Missing Link. Hopefully soon, although "other" work keeps coming up....Lots to do to launch a brand.

I'd like to try some drone shots too, if I can get it to track the bike....

I will be at Eurobike this year with a couple bikes. I will not have my own booth inside, but may try to get in on the demo days.

After that, it may depend on how I proceed with European distribution in general, for which I have no concrete plan at the moment, although I am in discussion with several interested parties.

 

[TantrumCycles]

A side by side video would also be good, that way we could better correlate what's happening in the shock and what's happening in the terrain.

You mean like a split screen? I thought about that but I thought it would just be too much to take in. Maybe in superslomo, although it does get a bit grainy

 

[Gunnar Westholm]

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Hopefully you include 2x10 in the component specification. I bought the lower-end model of my current bike specifically to get that 22 x 36 low gear and at 58 years old and 200 pounds with a lot of hard miles on me I would even like a step lower.

Have you looked into the ratios the new 10-50t cassettes can provide? I like the idea of larger steps that makes for quicker gearing in varying terrain.
And to be honest I don't really need to pedal as fast as the top gears on 2×10 goes.
Hers a really good gear calculator i like to use http://www.gear-calculator.com/

 

[TantrumCycles]

The Bionicon would change from 67 degrees to 74 degrees in climb mode. Pretty much guarantees disaster to head downhill with the uphill setting.

I think that your bike will be a bit more popular, since there isn't a massive cluster of extra tubes on the front. But I had no reason to buy a new bicycle until it broke.

Hopefully you include 2x10 in the component specification. I bought the lower-end model of my current bike specifically to get that 22 x 36 low gear and at 58 years old and 200 pounds with a lot of hard miles on me I would even like a step lower.

67 to 74 degrees is pretty extreme. The Missing link gives up to 4 degrees, so the Meltdown would go from 66 to 70ish. I say ish because it's always changing and varies with conditions. So, no way you will have anything bUT a 66 degree HT when headed downhill.

There will be an option to use a front derailleur. I feel your pain. Sometimes on the monster long climbs, it just helps to spin a bit easier. A 22 x 50 might be a bit much, but a 22-42 would basically be one more lower first gear.

 

[Gunnar Westholm]

67 to 74 degrees is pretty extreme. The Missing link gives up to 4 degrees, so the Meltdown would go from 66 to 70ish. I say ish because it's always changing and varies with conditions. So, no way you will have anything bUT a 66 degree HT when headed downhill.

There will be an option to use a front derailleur. I feel your pain. Sometimes on the monster long climbs, it just helps to spin a bit easier. A 22 x 50 might be a bit much, but a 22-42 would basically be one more lower first gear.

I was thinking 28t x 50t is a slightly lower lowest gear with 1x12 (500% ratio) in enchant for the highest gear on a 2x10 (536% ratio) with a 22-42t cassette.
https://www.sram.com/stories/introducing-sram-eagle-1x

But I suspect it will cost a bit more then equivalent 2×10 setup..

Skickat från min SM-G900F via Tapatalk

 

[Aglo]

You mean like a split screen? I thought about that but I thought it would just be too much to take in. Maybe in superslomo, although it does get a bit grainy

Yes, a split screen, forgot to mention the slomo. And obviously both videos synchronized.
For me, it's easier to visualize what's happening to the shock this way, and it also allows to see in which points the shock is fully compressed/expanded.

 

[schoolie]

Well, it's possible we could go riding sometime. Where's your favorite spot?

Ha, well my brother (Joe S.) beat me to it. I showed him your site and told him about the design concept and he took it from there Hope to meet you soon!

 

[TantrumCycles]

Ha, well my brother (Joe S.) beat me to it. I showed him your site and told him about the design concept and he took it from there Hope to meet you soon!

Would you please drop me a line on the contact part of our website. Trying to set a little ride up this week. Home