[TwoNin9r]

Hey guys. Attached is a picture of my new access frame matched up yo my rumblefish. What van I expect in terms of difference in feel. Astounding can see when I match 3 of the contact points (bb, rear drop, head tube) the seat tube is about an inch farther back. The picture doesn't do a whole lot of justice but I'm wondering how different it will feel. I'm sure ill feel a bit more stretched out but what aside from that? Any info helps


gemoetry

rumblefish
A Head Angle 70.1°
B Seat Angle 72.2°
C Effective Top Tube 62.024.4
D Chainstay 45.217.8
E Bottom Bracket 33.213.1
F Offset 5.12.0
G Wheelbase 114.545.1
Actual Frame Size 48.319.0
Trail 8.03.1
Standover 79.331.2
Seat Tube 48.319.0
Head Tube 12.54.9
Frame Reach 43.3

Access (mine's a 21)
-----------------------------------17-----------------19--------------21-------------23
Seat Tube (C-T)----------431.8 mm-----482.6 mm---533.4 mm---584.2 mm
Seat Tube (C-C)---------361.8 mm------412.6 mm--463.4 mm---514.2 mm
Effective Top Tube------580 mm--------605 mm------630 mm------650 mm
Actual Top Tube---------555.7 mm-----577.1 mm---601.9 mm---625 mm
Chainstay------------------455 mm-------455 mm------455 mm------455 mm
Head tube-----------------110mm---------115 mm------140 mm------155 mm
Bottom Bracket Drop--60 mm --------60 mm--------60 mm--------60 mm
Wheel Base--------------1066.9 mm---1092 mm----1117.7 mm--1138 mm
Head Angle---------------71 deg----------71 deg--------71 deg--------71 deg
Seat Angle----------------72.5 deg-------72.5 deg-----72.5 deg-----72.5 deg

EDIT: picture deleted as it was unhelpful

Ill try to take a more even picture cause I didn't really line it up right but if you can imagine when I match everything up the seat tube is about perpendicular and about an inch back.

 

[frdfandc]

Your comparing apples and watermelons.

 

[Berkley]

Looking at the geometry figures on paper would be a much more accurate way of determining differences. Pictures do not show the details adequately.

 

[shiggy]

Hey guys. Attached is a picture of my new access frame matched up yo my rumblefish. What van I expect in terms of difference in feel. Astounding can see when I match 3 of the contact points (bb, rear drop, head tube) the seat tube is about an inch farther back. The picture doesn't do a whole lot of justice but I'm wondering how different it will feel. I'm sure ill feel a bit more stretched out but what aside from that? Any info helps

Ill try to take a more even picture cause I didn't really line it up right but if you can imagine when I match everything up the seat tube is about perpendicular and about an inch back.

Line up the BB shells, and height of the rear dropouts. Then look at the differences

 

[Quadzilla81]

Line up the BB shells, and height of the rear dropouts. Then look at the differences

That will not work either. It does not compensate for sag.

 

[dubtrialsin]

Ones a Fisher one is Walmart.
Both are Chinese.

 

[TwoNin9r]

Ones a Fisher one is Walmart.
Both are Chinese.

Insults are always helpful.

Thanks everyone else ill post up the geometries in a bit

 

[dubtrialsin]

No insults.
Just playing Capt. Obvious to point out a similarity (failiure with my death valley dry humor)
sag will always play a big part in how the HT and ST angles change.
Shorter chainstays loft the front wheel
longer top tubes stablize at speed
Steep HTs steer quick

 

[TwoNin9r]

No insults.
Just playing Capt. Obvious to point out a similarity (failiure with my death valley dry humor)
sag will always play a big part in how the HT and ST angles change.
Shorter chainstays loft the front wheel
longer top tubes stablize at speed
Steep HTs steer quick

then i retract my previous statement, and also thank you for THIS very helpful reply... i feel that sometimes people who are very knowledgeable (yourself included) forget what it was like when you really didn't know much. i love biking, but don't know a great deal about biking geometry. i bought the rumblefish because it felt superb and really felt right on a test ride. i couldn't be happier... i then bought the access frame so that i could get a real hands on feel of what it was like to build my own setup... i don't mind if i screw up here and there because it was super cheap and i'll always have the RF to ride, so this is my learning experience, and the best way to minimize said "screw ups" and maximize progress is to ask questions of those more knowledgeable than myself... hence, you guys

editing the first post with gemoetry

 

[appleSSeed]

this reminds me of that double rainbow video...what does it mean!?

 

[meltingfeather]

suspension sag on the access will pitch it forward a tad.
the rumblefish will probably squat more or less equally, pitching the seat tube backward a tad.
or just ride it?

 

[TwoNin9r]

Will ride it as soon as it's built. Just wanted an idea of what to expect (besides the obvious lack if rear mushyness)

Come on guys. A little slack please?

 

[shiggy]

That will not work either. It does not compensate for sag.

be a heck of a lot closer than the way he has it,

 

[shiggy]

No insults.
Just playing Capt. Obvious to point out a similarity (failiure with my death valley dry humor)
sag will always play a big part in how the HT and ST angles change.
Shorter chainstays loft the front wheel
longer top tubes stablize at speed
Steep HTs steer quick

The Access frame is not "Walmart".
Unsagged the rear axle of the fully will partly compensate for fork sag on the hardtail when lined up for a rough comparison.
IME a longer wheel base increases high speed stability no matter if it is in the chainstays or the front center, though i prefer it to be in the stays.
HTA is more about weight distribution if fork offset maintains the trail distance.

 

[meltingfeather]

Will ride it as soon as it's built. Just wanted an idea of what to expect (besides the obvious lack if rear mushyness)

Come on guys. A little slack please?

Confucius say, "Expectation is the root of disappointment."
:thumbsup:

 

[Berkley]

Most #s are very close. RF will be more stable at speed, with the slacker head angle and longer wheelbase (and rear suspension). The Access will likely handle better in twisty, quick turning scenarios.

 

[blunderbuss]

Ones a Fisher one is Walmart.
Both are Chinese.

Sorry to disappoint. Rumblefish is Taiwanese.

 

[TwoNin9r]

Most #s are very close. RF will be more stable at speed, with the slacker head angle and longer wheelbase (and rear suspension). The Access will likely handle better in twisty, quick turning scenarios.

this is pretty much the answer i was looking for. thanks

 

[dubtrialsin]

Sorry to disappoint. Rumblefish is Taiwanese.

The sticker on the frame means just about nothing.
Yet I've personally peeled China stickers off of several Fisher suspension bikes (while working a dealership) which are still claimed to be US made.
Pacific plant or Merida plant, they both turn out good and bad,
And both are in Asia.
The path of a bike from raw materials to trail is always fuzzy and seemingly shrouded in mystery..
I'd love (no really I would!) to see the actual places bikes come from, most people don't know that cannondale is part of Schwinn..

 

[meltingfeather]

The sticker on the frame means just about nothing.

What the sticker means is detailed in United States Code Title 19, Chapter 4, Subtitle II, Part I, §1304 "Marking of Imported Articles and Containers"
link
While it might not coincide with what you think it should mean, it certainly doesn't mean "nothing."

Yet I've personally peeled China stickers off of several Fisher suspension bikes (while working a dealership) which are still claimed to be US made.

Which "made in the US" Fishers have you pulled "made in China" stickers off of?

most people don't know that cannondale is part of Schwinn..

that's because it's not. both are owned by the same company (Dorel).