[djlee]

The unfortunate part is that less-informed buyers don't know any better. This is one of the number one reasons I won't buy a specialized. Proprietary crap like this (special linkage designs) has no place on my bikes. Proprietary stuff like Trek DCRV shocks, some of the Scott stuff, Spec Brains, etc., it's all well and good for a few years, but after that, it's not supported and your bike becomes a giant paperweight if something craps out that is no longer supported and available due to being proprietary. Those wacky shock mounts are one of those things. It's not that the smaller builders are always better, but they usually have to "fight" for their customers over these big companies, so they tend to design them for the long haul and are relying less on image and brand recognition. Give me a Guerilla Gravity any day over a Specialized.

This. I tend to shy away from proprietary parts on principle alone.

Another point: Manufacturers who sell through a licensed dealer network (like Specialized) require the dealer (LBS) to handle the front end of warranty in exchange for the privilege of getting to sell a name-brand product. This arrangement has already been agreed upon by the LBS and the LBS has profited from selling the name-brand product. The consumer paid more money for a name-brand bike bought through the LBS model than he/she would have for a direct-to-consumer model.
The consumer has every right to expect the shop to make this right. Personally, I would never go back to that shop again if the shop doesn't make it right.
I get this is a hardship for the shop, however, and if the shop does make it right, then I would go out of my way to continue supporting them.

 

[Arm&Hammer]

You all are nuts to think the customer should move on or is at fault. He bought a product from a retail location that is expected to have a warranty. He did not bring in the part to the shop, he did not modify it himself and at no time did anyone even suggest any issues. The shop took his money for said item and they bear the brunt of the refund or replacing the item. It is up to the shop to go after Specialized or Fox for compensation if they choose to. Sue the shop in civil court and you win easy.

 

[Fajita Dave]

Crap design from Specialized. A shock isn't a structural component and shouldn't be expected to handle those kind of off center loads. Even if a shock does handle those kind of loads I doubt it's all that good for bushings, seals and the overall life of the shock. I don't like Fox either but I don't see reports of other frames snapping shock shaft like that. For this reason alone I'd put the blame squarely on Spech but I don't think you'll get anywhere with them.

 

[Harold]

Wow a nice heated debate! OP here: there's merit in all arguments, however I push back that it's my responsibility to bear.

• I didn't buy the bike new and then install a shock; I bought the bike with a coil shock together. Both from the LBS. Installed together before I even laid eyes on the bike (it was out of stock when I paid for it). And the combo was recommended by at least one worker there that rides the same combo
• The incompatibility wasn't known to the LBS at the time of purchase. Fox and Spec' only made that public about a month later. I wasn't notified or anything, and this wasn't "publicized" in fact they kept it hush hush. It was the resulted of many reports of near failures (and few full failures like mine) coming in. They're still keeping it under covers, while probably attempting to notify all shops
• To this date as an owner, I haven't received any notice that I should be aware of the incompatibility. I wonder if Specialized Enduro owners will receive notices...

If this combo was recommended to you by the shop, then it's on the shop. Definitely nothing on Fox. Maybe Specialized deserves criticism for not being clear about rear shock compatibility sooner, but at this point there's not really anything that you can do about it with Spesh.

Count me as another person who avoids proprietary crap like the plague. I have a friend who bought one of those new Trek FS bikes with that proprietary rear shock that integrates into the top tube. I look at that thing and I see nothing but trouble.

Specialized definitely doesn't need to make huge public announcements about this kind of compatibility concern that's come up later. They don't sell this combination as an OEM combo, so there's no requirement that they treat this like a recall notice. As you're learning here, there's more to swapping rear shocks than simply sizing. Tuning, leverage ratios, and so on are all part of it. There's a lot more involved, so much so that I've avoided diving into upgrading the rear shock on any FS bike of mine. Even I know that not every rear shock with the same physical dimensions is going to be suitable to every frame. And I know that some frames are specifically designed to use air or coil shocks. I'm not just going to make a change like that on a whim at one person's recommendation.

 

[Sparticus]

If this combo was recommended to you by the shop, then it's on the shop.

/ thread.

 

[mtnbkrmike]

Side question...does the Orbea Rallon suffer from the same design concerns?

 

[rebel1916]

I put a bigger turbo on my WRX. My engine blew up and neither Subaru, the aftermarket turbo company or the tuner shop wants to compensate me for my troubles. Who should I sue?

 

[Carl Mega]

/ thread.

Exactly. I feel a bit for the dealer as they probably wouldn't have known but in the end, the dealer is the customer's conduit to the mfgr. You are supposed to follow their informed advice - they represent the mfgr to the customer. Unless they expressly told/put in writing that this is a warranty voiding, ill advised, etc - they basically sold you a bike that had an incompatible, dangerous part spec that voided a mfgr warranty before it rolled out the door.

If someone got hurt here, I guarantee there would be a lawsuit in which the LBS would find very difficult to defend. While I wouldn't do it personally, I think you would win in small claims. I think this is a honest mistake as a dealer would have to be reckless to sell new bikes, they installed with known incompatible parts that the mfgr states could cause "injury/death". The litigation/liability exposure wouldn't warrant the minuscule profit.

 

[Arm&Hammer]

I put a bigger turbo on my WRX. My engine blew up and neither Subaru, the aftermarket turbo company or the tuner shop wants to compensate me for my troubles. Who should I sue?

So the dealer suggested that option and then installed it before you picked the car up brand new from the dealer? The dealer should be sued.

 

[Cleared2land]

Despite all of the many thoughts and opinions,
the bottom line is that I feel the OP shares no responsibility at all and I hope that everything works out to his satisfaction.

 

[Sparticus]

Exactly. I feel a bit for the dealer as they probably wouldn't have known but in the end, the dealer is the customer's conduit to the mfgr. You are supposed to follow their informed advice - they represent the mfgr to the customer. Unless they expressly told/put in writing that this is a warranty voiding, ill advised, etc - they basically sold you a bike that had an incompatible, dangerous part spec that voided a mfgr warranty before it rolled out the door.

If someone got hurt here, I guarantee there would be a lawsuit in which the LBS would find very difficult to defend. While I wouldn't do it personally, I think you would win in small claims. I think this is a honest mistake as a dealer would have to be reckless to sell new bikes, they installed with known incompatible parts that the mfgr states could cause "injury/death". The litigation/liability exposure wouldn't warrant the minuscule profit.

Right. I'm not down on the LBS at all, I'm just looking objectively at the general rules of liability. The LBS is front line in this, they installed the shock. In turn, if Specialized has some liability as well, then the dealer can pursue them secondarily to recoup/subrogate.
None of this has anything to do with emotions or good/bad feelings or rapport, just legal liability.
=sParty

 

[Harold]

Right. I'm not down on the LBS at all, I'm just looking objectively at the general rules of liability. The LBS is front line in this, they installed the shock. In turn, if Specialized has some liability as well, then the dealer can pursue them secondarily to recoup/subrogate.
None of this has anything to do with emotions or good/bad feelings or rapport, just legal liability.
=sParty

And it may even be that one specific employee who made the recommendation in the first place that the shop needs to come down on. Ultimately the guy IS the shop in the sale, but the owner/manager of the shop should probably come down on the guy for making the recommendation/sale in the first place, without clear information regarding manufacturer support.

Because if a shop employee is making modification recommendations to customers that void the mfr warranty before the bike goes out the door....that's a problem for the shop.

 

[DIRTJUNKIE]

And it may even be that one specific employee who made the recommendation in the first place that the shop needs to come down on. Ultimately the guy IS the shop in the sale, but the owner/manager of the shop should probably come down on the guy for making the recommendation/sale in the first place, without clear information regarding manufacturer support.

Because if a shop employee is making modification recommendations to customers that void the mfr warranty before the bike goes out the door....that's a problem for the shop.

Yep, I’d hate to be in his shoes right now.

 

[Blkdoutindustries]

Despite all of the many thoughts and opinions,
the bottom line is that I feel the OP shares no responsibility at all and I hope that everything works out to his satisfaction.

He's does share some, not most but some, as the buyer/owner he has the final say on what gets upgraded or not, and if he ok'd the change he had some culpability.
I still agree that shop should make it right since at end of the day you have an invoice showing the purchase with that shock so he would have no problem getting a favorable judgment if he wanted to pursue legal action imo

 

[Aglo]

Simple question for the OP, how did you decided on the upgrade?
Did you choose the shock, said you wanted the upgrade, and the LBS worker said he did the same upgrade and was happy with it?
Or you wanted to upgrade the shock to coil and asked the LBS about what shock should you get.
Fox has no fault in this.
Specialized has no fault in this, apart from just being Specialized.
The LBS may have a some amount of guilt.

 

[rebel1916]

So the dealer suggested that option and then installed it before you picked the car up brand new from the dealer? The dealer should be sued.

Plenty of dealers will install **** that will improve performance, while reducing engine life. When you start requesting bespoke options, it's on you.

 

[Arm&Hammer]

Plenty of dealers will install **** that will improve performance, while reducing engine life. When you start requesting bespoke options, it's on you.

Not true at all, cmon dude. If you are buying a new car and THEY suggest the change THEY are also responsible for letting you know that it will void the warranty and I do not know any dealerships that would make that suggestion on a brand new car. How about you call all of the Honda or Toyota dealers in your area and see if they will swap out the engine for a different one and no additional costs on a brand new vehicle. Bet you can’t find one.

 

[Cleared2land]

He's does share some, not most but some, as the buyer/owner he has the final say on what gets upgraded or not, and if he ok'd the change he had some culpability.

When a shop is selling a new bike and makes a recommendation to install a shock, then the shop holds responsibility for the recommendation.

 

[Blkdoutindustries]

When a shop is selling a new bike and makes a recommendation to install a shock, then the shop holds responsibility for the recommendation.

And you hold responsibility for accepting their recommendation, it's just a recommendation, a suggestion, not an order. I can recommend you drop out of college, that you go break into a bank, etc, in the end you are the one with the choice and power to do it or not. I'm not saying he bears full responsibility but some of it he does for sure. Only way I see the shop having 100% responsibility would be if they swapped the shock without his prior knowledge or consent

 

[rebel1916]

,