REVIEWS DEALS BIKESHOPS TRAILS

New Facist Laws for Cyclists in Australia...

1079 Views 20 Replies 11 Participants Last post by cowpat, Jun 21, 2009

ilostmypassword

Discussion Starter · Jun 19, 2009

Cyclists to face big fines or prison under tough new laws in Australia.

Hit-and-run cyclists will face up to five years in jail under the tough new laws, effective from today. Roads Minister Tim Pallas announced the new penalties for dangerous riding in a crackdown on rogue cyclists.

"The new laws put cyclists on a similar footing to motorists when it comes to being charged with serious traffic offences and also apply to cyclists riding on roads and bikes paths," he said.

"We're driving home to cyclists the need for them to obey road laws or be punished. There are now harsher consequences for what are serious offences."

IF a person is killed or seriously injured by a cyclist and the rider has not immediately stopped and offered assistance - $68,052 or five years in prison.

IF property is damaged by a cyclist and the rider has not immediately stopped and offered assistance - $284 or seven days in prison for a first offence and $567 or prison for between seven and 14 days for a subsequent offence.

Mr Pallas said two people had died in the past 10 years after being hit by cyclists and another 68 had been seriously injured.

"Increasingly the message has to be everybody needs to share the road and nobody has an exclusive right to use the road and nobody has the right to ignore the road rules," he said.

wow……….more details on this ridiculous state of affairs here at the Herald Sun.

I reckon that its the final nail in the coffin against cyclists in a culture that already hates them. How short sighted is Australia becoming? What next? number plates and rego for bikes?????

What do you guys think about this?

See less See more

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

Wild Wassa

· #2 · Jun 20, 2009

As a long time cyclist and a vehicle driver, I think that these new laws are excellent and well over due. Here in the Capital Teritory cyclists are cut far too much slack in road accidents at the expense of drivers who may not even be at fault.

It is about time the idiot cycling fringe who have made cycling dangerous for responsible riders, especially the road riders are held to account for flagrant breaking of the rules of the road.
Every day I see riders clearly and deliberately breaking the rules and know that when I'm riding I'm tarred with the same brush that they have ignorantly wielded.

Warren.

ilostmypassword

Discussion Starter · #3 · Jun 20, 2009

Wild Wassa said:
As a long time cyclist and a vehicle driver, I think that these new laws are excellent and well over due. Here in the Capital Teritory cyclists are cut far too much slack in road accidents at the expense of drivers who may not even be at fault.

It is about time the idiot cycling fringe who have made cycling dangerous for responsible riders, especially the road riders are held to account for flagrant breaking of the rules of the road.
Every day I see riders clearly and deliberately breaking the rules and know that when I'm riding I'm tarred with the same brush that they have ignorantly wielded.

Warren.

I'm yet to see a culture that hates cyclists as much as Australia- I mean what's the issue there? Things being thrown at bikers, attacks on trails, bikes being banned on public transport.....and now this.

I don't understand how this will be policed.....how can it be? And what about the people who walk on bike only paths and get knocked down? are they to blame? or car drivers who open their doors/ cut cyclists off....where are the fines and jail time for this behavior? Once again the car WINS.

Fact is that there are maybe 2 incidents of deaths where a cyclist has hit and killed someone- can that be said about cars hitting bikers?

All this will do is give the already fat and angry car drivers more ammunition at bikers and society more reason to invest in planet killing cars. For such a new country, Australia has really fuked things up when it comes to it's dependency on cars and the TAXES they generate.

See less See more

Wild Wassa

· #4 · Jun 20, 2009 (Edited)

"I'm yet to see a culture that hates cyclists as much as Australia."

They are strong words Mate ... because where I live in our Nation's Capital the cyclists are totally indulged.

Let me read/quote some of the road rules, from the current Australian Capital Territory Road Rules Handbook, found on pages 98, 99 and 100.

"Motorists must take care and show consideration when sharing the road with cyclists, who have the same legal rights and obligations as other road users."

"Although Canberra has cycle paths it is not compulsory for cyclists to use them." (A side note: If you know our cycle paths and transit cycle lanes here in the Territory? ... cyclists are totally indulged)

"There are no roads in the ACT from which cyclists are excluded."

"Cyclists are very vunerable in traffic. They have very little protection in the event of a collision and this places more responsibility on the motorist."

Motorists should excercise care when:

"Overtaking cyclists- leave plenty of room in case they need to avoid a rough surface or obstacle on the road."

"Overtaking other vehicles - watch for any oncoming cyclists. Wait until they have passed before you overtake."

"Negotialing intersections at the same time as cyclists - slow down and allow cyclists to negotiale intersections in safety."

"Children are riding - watch out for children on bicycles because they are not always aware of the road rules and their riding is somewhat erratic."

"Driving at night - look for reflectors on bicycles, wheels or peddals, not just headlights or tail lights. It is illegal to ride at night without lights but it does happen, so a reflector may be the first thing that you see."

"Check your rear vision mirror and look over your shoulder for cyclists when openning your door."

"Coloured Bycycle lanes at intersections are to remind drivers that this section of the roadway is a travel lane for bicycle riders ... and the right of way is legally granted to cyclists ... motorists must give way to a cyclist on a bicycle lane."

Then the Road Rules Handbook mentions the cyclists obligations ... to abide by the Territories, the States, and the National Road Rules. Including when riding on a shared path, riding two a breast and "not causing a hazzard to traffic," both to drivers and pedestrians.

The "Fascist's Laws" ... are nothing more than those already existing Mate ... just the severity of the penalties have changed.

In all the years that I've been riding on city and country roads the only real hazzards to me, have been from other cyclists ... from inconsiderate, unsure and unfit weekend riders and kids. But as a car driver, many daily commuter riders have an entitlement mentality, they are the real road hazzard. Their lack of indicating and pushiness and by defending interception geometry ... deserves their worst.

"Here lies the cyclist John Grey, who died defending his right of way!" Every cyclist to me is potentially a John Grey ... including myself.

Warren.

See less See more

nuclear_powered

· #5 · Jun 20, 2009

Lets summarize the article shall we?

note ILMP - I was reluctant to reply because I am almost certain you are just sh!t stirring as usual. But in case you can't see the article for the pile of dung it is (as is the case with most everything written in The Herald Scum), and are instead falling victim to sensationalist journalism, and subsequently missed the actual laws stated, here they are again:

Dangerous riding - Fine or Jail or Both

Careless riding of a bike - Fine

It is against the law to hit or kill a pedestrian while riding your bicycle, without stopping to offer assistance - Fine or Jail.

It is against the law to damage property while riding your bicycle, without stopping to offer assistance - Fine or Jail.

(Really, everything before and after that in the article is just the usual bullsh!t)

So ... can you point out the Fascism? Because all I see are roughly the same laws that apply to motorists in regards to potentially or accidentally causing harm to others or their property. Which are not all the different from the laws that apply to people in general potentially or accidentally causing harm to others or their property. Which are ... well ... pretty normal sounding laws if you ask me.

Are things different elsewhere? Are there countries where you can kill or injure people intentionally and get away with it? Or more importantly, are there people who kill or injure people accidentally, run away, and feel OK about it?

See less See more

waldog

· #6 · Jun 20, 2009

I tend to agree with N_P on this one. I commute most days to work and i'm utterly sick most riders disregard for road rules. Be it running red lights, going the wrong way down one way streets or many other stupid behaviours, regardless of what it is, it must be stopped. Cyclists are currently not held accountable for the actions and do nothing but make them selves look bad in the eye of car drivers, and i see these new laws as a step in the right direction.

I will say that i still see i fair share of idiot drivers out there that have no regard for cyclists on the road, and something must be done about that, but in this instance i think cyclists must be held accountable too.

How do we fix the drivers? Not sure, but riding within the road rules would sure be a good start!!!

ilostmypassword

Discussion Starter · #7 · Jun 20, 2009

nuclear_powered said:
note ILMP - I was reluctant to reply because I am almost certain you are just sh!t stirring as usual.

That's not very nice is it? I did not write the article or make the media go nuts over it. Pull your neck in eh.

Talking from experience of living in 3 countries and pretty much traveling the globe- I can tell you now that Australias bike hating culture is ripe. Fact. I can also tell you that this law and media hype will do nothing other than divide the car drivers and cyclists further....not solve anything.

If the country invested in proper cycle ways, education and embraced the bike as a valued mode of transport- like many other countries- this kind of bullying would not be needed.

Of course killing someone on a bike or riding dangerously needs to be stopped- but those laws i'm sure, were already present. It is the ridiculous fact that it cannot be enforced...and how exactly is it fair when so many drivers knock cyclists off daily and get away with no fines what so ever?

My views don't fall inline with yours- but no need to be a dick about it.

See less See more

chumbox

· #8 · Jun 20, 2009

I think the laws are long overdue and they are there to protect cycling culture cos we love it, not hate it. Come to Melbourne and see all the bikes, its a dream coming true down here.

ilostmypassword

Discussion Starter · #9 · Jun 20, 2009

chumbox said:
I think the laws are long overdue and they are there to protect cycling culture cos we love it, not hate it. Come to Melbourne and see all the bikes, its a dream coming true down here.

I respect your views mate- and if that's how it is now in Melbs- i eat humble pie - with a serve of pull my head in

How exactly do you think that it will protect the culture though?

nuclear_powered

· #10 · Jun 20, 2009

ilostmypassword said:
My views don't fall inline with yours- but no need to be a dick about it.

Dude, I said you were a sh!t stirrer - it's not like that's a mortally offending insult. Heck, it's barely an insult. I think you know you like to stir it up a bit with the whole "New Zealand's so great, Australia's so boring and flat" thing. One who stirs sh!t is most definitely a sh!t stirrer. If you're good at it, wear that badge with pride.

But this time I just found it strange that you, who seem to be pretty switched on when it comes to trail advocacy and bicycling culture, could find these laws fascist in nature or somehow indicative of a nationwide trend of hatred towards cyclists. You seem pretty adamant about this to the point of claiming it as fact (period) - did you like, live in every single city here and witness every interaction between every cyclist and every motorist ever? Or did you witness a handful of events, or receive some anger directed towards you, and assume that "Well, all these f**kers must be alike"? If it was the latter, then to be honest I would completely understand as I've been on the painful end of a car vs bike incident (painful as in physically, emotionally, financially) that left me pretty scarred in that regard too. And it was completely the drivers fault.

But perspective is key. Is every driver in the country like that? No. Are a lot? Yes. More than most other countries? I wouldn't say enough more than any other country where cyclists and drivers share the roads to label most of us as bike haters. I could find a dozen of these threads in the US-based areas with just a few quick searches I'm sure. Frustrated motorists exist the world over - even in your peaceful neck of the woods. If you can honestly say that absolutely zero of that frustration is directed at cyclists, then either all your cyclists are educated properly and obey the rules and don't pull some of the stupid sh!t Waldog and Wassa are referring to in here (which I also witness daily both as a commuter and driver), or you're all in some state of Zen calm that should be bottled and tipped into water supplies the world over. Peace in the middle-east within 6 months tops.

At the end of the day, these laws are as vague and open to abuse/scrutiny/misinterpretation as most law is in general. That's the way it works in both our countries and that's why lawyers are kept in business on both sides of the court. Bicycle riders need to be held as accountable as motorists when it comes to injuring others since when on the road - they are one and the same. Every other one of your points is completely valid - we need more bike lanes. We need more driver and rider education. We need more understanding. That last one needs to come from both sides, and most importantly take perspective into account.

See less See more

ilostmypassword

Discussion Starter · #11 · Jun 20, 2009 (Edited)

nuclear_powered said:
Dude, I said you were a sh!t stirrer - it's not like that's a mortally offending insult. Heck, it's barely an insult. I think you know you like to stir it up a bit with the whole "New Zealand's so great, Australia's so boring and flat" thing. One who stirs sh!t is most definitely a sh!t stirrer. If you're good at it, wear that badge with pride.

But this time I just found it strange that you, who seem to be pretty switched on when it comes to trail advocacy and bicycling culture, could find these laws fascist in nature or somehow indicative of a nationwide trend of hatred towards cyclists. You seem pretty adamant about this to the point of claiming it as fact (period) - did you like, live in every single city here and witness every interaction between every cyclist and every motorist ever? Or did you witness a handful of events, or receive some anger directed towards you, and assume that "Well, all these f**kers must be alike"? If it was the latter, then to be honest I would completely understand as I've been on the painful end of a car vs bike incident (painful as in physically, emotionally, financially) that left me pretty scarred in that regard too. And it was completely the drivers fault.

But perspective is key. Is every driver in the country like that? No. Are a lot? Yes. More than most other countries? I wouldn't say enough more than any other country where cyclists and drivers share the roads to label most of us as bike haters. I could find a dozen of these threads in the US-based areas with just a few quick searches I'm sure. Frustrated motorists exist the world over - even in your peaceful neck of the woods. If you can honestly say that absolutely zero of that frustration is directed at cyclists, then either all your cyclists are educated properly and obey the rules and don't pull some of the stupid sh!t Waldog and Wassa are referring to in here (which I also witness daily both as a commuter and driver), or you're all in some state of Zen calm that should be bottled and tipped into water supplies the world over. Peace in the middle-east within 6 months tops.

At the end of the day, these laws are as vague and open to abuse/scrutiny/misinterpretation as most law is in general. That's the way it works in both our countries and that's why lawyers are kept in business on both sides of the court. Bicycle riders need to be held as accountable as motorists when it comes to injuring others since when on the road - they are one and the same. Every other one of your points is completely valid - we need more bike lanes. We need more driver and rider education. We need more understanding. That last one needs to come from both sides, and most importantly take perspective into account.

You really don't like me eh.

FFS lighten up and stop taking the internet and my comments so literally and personally - it just makes you more ANGRY

LyNx

· #12 · Jun 20, 2009

WOw, those stats seem quite high

2 people have been killed by bicycles :eekster: What sort of riding are these people doing to be able to kill someone with a bicycle?

ut: I wonder how many cyclists have been killed by cars? :skep:

As for obeying the rules of the road, hell yes, you need to obey them just as a car does, that means stopping at stop lights etc. Who the hell hits someone and doesn't stop to see if they're OK, whether it's the persons fault or not. As for the damamgeing of property :skep: mostly that occurs from some asshat in a car coming to close to a cyclist and then contact is made - drivers fault, give bicycle respect and room.

ilostmypassword

Discussion Starter · #13 · Jun 20, 2009 (Edited)

LyNx said:
WOw, those stats seem quite high 2 people have been killed by bicycles :eekster: What sort of riding are these people doing to be able to kill someone with a bicycle? ut: I wonder how many cyclists have been killed by cars? :skep:

As for obeying the rules of the road, hell yes, you need to obey them just as a car does, that means stopping at stop lights etc. Who the hell hits someone and doesn't stop to see if they're OK, whether it's the persons fault or not. As for the damamgeing of property :skep: mostly that occurs from some asshat in a car coming to close to a cyclist and then contact is made - drivers fault, give bicycle respect and room.

That was my reaction too. Other countries deal with bikes and cars sharing spaces in many ways- but Australia once more uses threats and media fear.

They are also talking of rego for cyclists...like car drivers. Of course fees will be involved

Aside from the fact that its impractical, where will this stuff end? Kids paying taxes on their first bike? And serioulsy, who is going to pay? The pleasure of just riding a bike will become a criminal act down under......what a joke!

As for the image of bikers being tax free from most car drivers perspective- what rubbish. Most cyclists either own or have owned vehicles and pay taxes on these while sat in the garage

My original points (before they were pushed off track by N_P's personal stuff - again) are that how exactly will this nonsense be enforced? Why exactly do such harsh laws need to be enforced? What about bike parks where your average family comes around that blind corner and hits a walker who should not be on that trail? Where are the strict laws to safe guard the CYCLISTS?

See less See more

Hud

· #14 · Jun 20, 2009

ilostmypassword said:
What do you guys think about this?

I think all along Nuclear_Powered has been trying quite reasonably to respond to this part of your first post.

ilostmypassword

Discussion Starter · #15 · Jun 21, 2009 (Edited)

Hud said:
I think all along Nuclear_Powered has been trying quite reasonably to respond to this part of your first post.

Could you take that sentence any more out of context?

Inbetween the personal jabs and assumptions- yeah i suppose he has a few valid points.

What do you actually think? Do you think that fines for cyclists that are far in excess of the equivalent crime for a motorist is fair? For comparison, careless driving in Victoria attracts a fine of 2.4 penalty units, or $272.21, and 3 demerit points (for those outside Australia - get 12 of these and your license gets suspended.)

So why is the fine for cycling so much higher, and why does it automatically escalate for subsequent offenses?

http://www.legalaid.vic.gov.au/2034.htm"

Surly just amending the current laws for "vehicles" would have been more appropriate rather than a whole new set with stiffer penalties to their fellow car users?

See less See more

Hud

· #16 · Jun 21, 2009 (Edited)

Edit: deleted response to ILMP as I don't want to escalate something I shouldn't be involved in.

As for what I think of these laws. I regard them as I do the 3km/h tolerance for speeding. Pretty severe, but don't offend, don't pay. Meaning other people provide income for the government.

As for the penalties for the list below, personnally It's irrelevant. If I hit a pedestrian while riding it won't be because I was running a red light or riding carelessly, and I will stop to help them. Who wouldn't? The people that do any of the things below deserve to have the book thrown at them. There is a bad attitude towards cyclists by some drivers, and a bad attitude towards road rules by some cyclists. At least if cyclists start obeying rules, they have the moral high ground and drivers can't use the law-breaking of cyclists for their own agenda.

'"Dangerous riding - Fine or Jail or Both

Careless riding of a bike - Fine

It is against the law to hit or kill a pedestrian while riding your bicycle, without stopping to offer assistance - Fine or Jail.

It is against the law to damage property while riding your bicycle, without stopping to offer assistance - Fine or Jail."

See less See more

ilostmypassword

Discussion Starter · #17 · Jun 21, 2009 (Edited)

i don't why you guys always make stuff so personal and the whole "kiwi vs aussie thing" - you need to get over it. no wonder no one bothers to post in here any more......

Anyway- back on topic. I see what you mean hud about the "bad apples" and getting what is coming to them - of course that makes sense. And as i've already said (if you read the thread) punishment for killing and reckless behavior is of course fair! I agree and understand that rouge cyclists need to be punished (for the final time) - its just the heavy handed and ridiculous approach to the situation and unfairness that will follow that i disagree with....so can we maybe stay in topic?

If you guys would just stop taking criticism as a personal attack on "your country" you might see how unfair the laws are- and how they will cause more divide between the car drivers and the "average cyclist". What you seem to forget is that most drivers put all cyclist in the same box - rouge or not.....and this is a potential mine field.

If you drive recklessly you get points off your license and a fine less than a cyclist. The cyclist then has subsequent offenses escalate - unlike car drivers who just get the same fines.

I'm surprised at how much you guys cannot see how this is just another nail in the cyclists coffin when it comes to being treated fairly and equally in Australia. But maybe that's because you have never experienced that in your country....yet.

Maybe facist was a harsh word. if i could amend it to "unfair" "biased" or "non required" i would."

See less See more

_Moose_

· #18 · Jun 21, 2009

Such a stupid idea, well im sure its great for those who want to deter people from getting out and riding around the place, it will make all those who complain about all those "cyclists from hell" happy .. it wont change peoples perception of cyclists either just fuel the fire and further the divide.

The first thing most drivers say abotu cyclists is that they "all" or a large percentage don't follow the rules (red lights etc) then the go on to say that cyclists have no place on the roads until they pay rego .. well sorry ive paid rego on every one of my cars so far so its not like im not paying any rego. Until my bike does as much damage to the roads as a car does i dont see what paying rego will achieve? Not until the general attitude of the public changes towards cyclists will things get any better - look at Melbourne its a bike friendly place to be & is much better accepted. This isnt the case in NSW.

If you think its a way of identifying a cyclist who has done something wrong to report them think again, how many loonies who hate cyclists will just ring and report people for nothing apart from being a cyclist? how much time would that take up for either RTA/Police or who ever the governing body would be? If you call the police at the moment there are long wait times until a cop shows up for say a break and enter or theft - i wouldnt want to see police time wasted on "cycling offences"

This doesn't mean cyclists shouldn't be held accountable for their actions, especially if they injure someone that's just not on. But the same thing happens with drives leaving the scene of an accident, people dont always get rego etc especially if no one else is around.

That fine amount is ridiculous its the same as if I was caught for speeding +31kph-45kph in a car, that is more dangerous than anything a cyclist could do in an accident.

Would it affect me, no not really as im not to willing to battle on the road with cars in sydney due to the poor way you get treated, i will put the bike in the car and head out somewhere for a ride (trails or somewhere with bike paths) to specifically avoid any of those situations.

maybe as another idea if you have a car and pay rego / CTP you can pay an additional much smaller part for CTP that covers you when you are out riding (insurance) so that in the case of an incident with someone else where they are injured the insurance will cover their costs?

But over all I think this country is just getting stupider and stupider with some of the laws of what you can and cant do considering the lack of support \ infrastructure provided for outdoor activities.

See less See more

crank1979

· #19 · Jun 21, 2009

_Moose_ said:
everything he said

I think that all seems to be pretty good and i agree with the ideas/thoughts there.

Stevob

· #20 · Jun 21, 2009

You can't change a person's frame of mind with a law.

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.