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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
https://flic.kr/p/5408036606
Personally, I am getting singlespeed dropout burnout. So complicated, so expensive... and so freaking many of them now. I think if I were building a SS for myself, today, I would just build a regular old geared frame and use a Forward EBB or a chain tensioner of some kind.

I'm sure in another day or two I'll be less grumpy...

-Walt
 

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heck no man!

The nice thing about these drop out designs is the large adjustment which allows going from one cog to another with 2 or more teeth and not messing with half-links or changing chain lengths.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Seriously?

Even if you break the chain rather than just use powerlinks, it can't possibly take even an incompetent mechanic more than 5 minutes to swap out cogs and add/subtract chain links.

Or you can just have 2 or 3 chains, one of each length you need. They're dirt cheap.

As I said, I'm grumpy this morning...

-Walt

jmw said:
heck no man!

The nice thing about these drop out designs is the large adjustment which allows going from one cog to another with 2 or more teeth and not messing with half-links or changing chain lengths.
 

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I'd rather have a BB30 EBB. Problem solvers had an EBB for BB30 presented at Frostbike but it is mysteriously missing from their recap. But I'm with you on the vertical dropouts. That area of the bike can get very complicated... and some days gears are nice. The only issue is reaming out a BB30 as a framebuilder.
 

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Walt, you are just grumpy. Those look rad. Whether or not they'll hold up to torquing with only one bolt and the tension screw so far away from the sliding part is another question.

A forward EBB is (a ridiculous IMO) $160. Compared to Paragon sliders at $100, which are, say, $70 more than a standard vertical Paragon DO, that's quite the up-charge.

And standard tensioners suck. You either need to have a front chainguide to keep things on, or you need to run enough tension that there's a lot of drag in the drivetrain. Maybe not enough that it's easy to tell with your legs, but I bet it's a few watts.

Sure, there are too many options from a utilitarian standpoint, but you could say that about standard dropouts, too. I remember someone telling me they thought the Klein Adept, which used the same suspension as a Fisher Sugar was stupid 'cause it was the same suspension design. But the same person wouldn't make the same comment on Klein vs. Fisher hardtails, and the suspension bikes were at least as different from each other as the hardtails. I think this is a similar situation.
 

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Walt said:
Even if you break the chain rather than just use powerlinks, it can't possibly take even an incompetent mechanic more than 5 minutes to swap out cogs and add/subtract chain links.

Or you can just have 2 or 3 chains, one of each length you need. They're dirt cheap.

-Walt
I personally hate changing the chain on my SS or removing/adding links from the chain when changing gear ratios - I am lazy and switch cogs on a very regular basis (almost every ride or every other ride). I had the multiple chain setup in the past - pain... and EBB - even worse... have to change saddle for/aft, height, and the maint is too much!!

AND - a Tensioner on a SS? - that is just wrong in so many ways - what a nightmare. The FF components BB is an OK band-aid for a geared frame but still a pain to setup and adjust (yes, i have one) and really has no place on a dedicated SS bike (yes, I believe SS frames should be dedicated to SS without all the extra junk on them like cable stops/etc)

So - I think all of these options that are coming out are AWESOME! Simple, allow enough adjustment for two/three teeth on rear cog and low maint - how can you get better than that? Super awesome that a lot of the smaller builders are doing their own versions and not just using off the shelf stuff... you should make some of your own Walt and get on the bandwagon...
 

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Walt said:
https://flic.kr/p/5408036606
Personally, I am getting singlespeed dropout burnout. So complicated, so expensive... and so freaking many of them now. I think if I were building a SS for myself, today, I would just build a regular old geared frame and use a Forward EBB or a chain tensioner of some kind.

I'm sure in another day or two I'll be less grumpy...

-Walt
I think the design is pretty simple and clean.
Rick does mention he is making the dog bone beefier, though once the bolts are tightened I think it would be OK.
Same for the strength of the adjuster. It is just that and the main bolts hold the drop out in use. Better safe than sorry...
 

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SOFTBUTT said:
I prefer simple horizontal over all of these complicated mouse traps.

I shortened these Pauls dropouts, since I don't like the look of them full length. I figured I'd always keep the wheel in the same general area, anyway. I positioned the caliper so that the brake pads fit over the disc for most of the range, and I don't have to loosen the caliper to remove the wheel.
 

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Walt.... I'm with you.. screw the happy people.

SS sucks. Gearded bikes are simpler, cheaper, work better, and are lighter half the time as well.

Although props to the guy for shortening the Pauls.. nice work. I agree most ss drops look wanky.

GEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!

-Schmitty-
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
That...

...is a really nice look. I am less grumpy already!

Feldman, you are so banned. :)

-Walt

Blaster1200 said:
I prefer simple horizontal over all of these complicated mouse traps.

I shortened these Pauls dropouts, since I don't like the look of them full length. I figured I'd always keep the wheel in the same general area, anyway. I positioned the caliper so that the brake pads fit over the disc for most of the range, and I don't have to loosen the caliper to remove the wheel.
 

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As a newbie builder without a real jig, I really like horizontal dropouts. It makes it so that chainstay length differences aren't as critical. A 1 mm difference can go un noticed. However, with this frame I got lucky and it was darn near nuts on.

The challenge with horizontal dropouts is phasing. If one of the dropouts is a small degree out of phase from the other, the wheel's tracking can go off as the wheels is adjusted through its range, except for the sweet spot used to initially hold the dropouts for welding. I made this error on my second frame. Fortunately, it was only slightly off, but it goes unnoticed, since I have the wheel at the sweet spot. Fortunately, I identified the problem and also got it right on the orange frame.

Walt, wait until you see how I used the low disc mount Paragons. I think you'll like it. I took your notes/comments into consideration when I came up with the mounting method so that the chainstays aren't really wide - they're in about the same position as normal. Unfortunately, I didn't take pictures showing what I thought was the cool part, but the end result seems good.
 

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Eric the Red
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Blaster1200 said:
The challenge with horizontal dropouts is phasing. If one of the dropouts is a small degree out of phase from the other, the wheel's tracking can go off as the wheels is adjusted through its range, except for the sweet spot used to initially hold the dropouts for welding.
Get a dummy axle from Anvil. They have d-shaped ends, so they keep your dropouts in phase. Best $35 you'll spend on framebuilding.
 

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edoz said:
Get a dummy axle from Anvil. They have d-shaped ends, so they keep your dropouts in phase. Best $35 you'll spend on framebuilding.
I have one. From what I remember, there's just enough slop in the interface to allow a little bit of movement.

But that and the disc mount jig was one of my better investments!
 

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Haven't done a singlespeed for 12 months now - seems like road bikes are the new singlespeed.

Don't say I miss them.

:D

Still, I saw Ricks dropouts a couple of weeks ago, and am looking forward to seeing the finished product. If the finish is CNC fresh, they could be a Paragon slayer.
 

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They're a bit like a Lawwill with overtightened pivots. I wonder whether those bolts will stay tight or be creak-free.

Bigger axle adjustments could take a while and would require an open-end. He could modify the ballcrank to have a bolt head coming out the back side of the button.
 
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