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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Replacing the Kokopelli...

Picking up an '08 that's sitting in my LBS - White/Silver, "Race" build.

My riding is primarily Colorado single track - i.e. rocky/steep, but at my age I tend to walk the more nasty stuff. Some racing - mostly endurance type events - Leadville, 50 milers, team 24 hour races, and an occasional sports class age group race.

Going to do some upgrade trade-outs first - what are your thoughts on the following:

1) Replace the stock DT Swiss Rims/Hubs with King Hubs (and I think DT Swiss Rims - the shop has a pair already built up). Stan's?

2) Flat bars with Cane Creek ends vs. teh Monkeylight risers.

3) Alliante XM instead of the SDG standard (Aliante on my road bikes - very comfortable. Older Gobi on the Koko, less comfortable).

4) CK headset (swapping the Cane Creek to the Koko, CK to the ASR).

Otherwise, I think the build is spot on and not much else to change out.
 

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Wheels

chuckred said:
Replacing the Kokopelli...

Picking up an '08 that's sitting in my LBS - White/Silver, "Race" build.

My riding is primarily Colorado single track - i.e. rocky/steep, but at my age I tend to walk the more nasty stuff. Some racing - mostly endurance type events - Leadville, 50 milers, team 24 hour races, and an occasional sports class age group race.

Going to do some upgrade trade-outs first - what are your thoughts on the following:

1) Replace the stock DT Swiss Rims/Hubs with King Hubs (and I think DT Swiss Rims - the shop has a pair already built up). Stan's?

2) Flat bars with Cane Creek ends vs. teh Monkeylight risers.

3) Alliante XM instead of the SDG standard (Aliante on my road bikes - very comfortable. Older Gobi on the Koko, less comfortable).

4) CK headset (swapping the Cane Creek to the Koko, CK to the ASR).

Otherwise, I think the build is spot on and not much else to change out.
The wheels are the only thing I would definitely do, the rest is just preference. I like the Stans rims laced up with DT/King whatever. My issue with the wheels you list, is that you really aren't saving much weight (if they are DT rims) because you still have to use a tubeless conversion kit = even more weight. The kings are lighter than the hubs the wheels come with, but having lighter hubs, with a heavy conversion kit far out in rotational-weight-land won't make the bike a whole lot quicker.

Does the '08 build come with the XT or RF cranks? I had horrible luck with the RF cranks on my 575. The ring bolts came loose weekly, and I actually snapped teeth off the rings as well. I think others have had good luck with them, but I'd prolly see if the shop would swap out cranks to XT if it isn't coming with them.
 

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+1 on the wheels, combined with tire selection it is the biggest factor as to how 'fast' the bike feels on raceday. Even if you don't want to go tubeless right now, buying a tubeless wheelset will give you the option in the future. My first 3 rides in Fruita last spring killed 3 maxxis ultralight tubes, I've been tubeless ever since.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
used2Bhard said:
Does the '08 build come with the XT or RF cranks?
Thanks -

It comes with XT cranks...

Will talk about wheels - if they build me a new set vs. what they have on the floor, it's only slightly more $s...
 

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chuckred said:
Thanks -

It comes with XT cranks...

Will talk about wheels - if they build me a new set vs. what they have on the floor, it's only slightly more $s...
That's good. The New XT cranks are great! I actually like them more than my XTR as far as stiffness, value, and durability.

I don't know if this applies to you, but I see this alot with others on the forums....
When it comes to wheels, it's often hard to jump ship from the prebuilts, and build up a custom set. I resisted this urge of going into the unknown for a while and wasted my time with Crossmax wheels that were heavy and had hub issues. Despite the pleas from folks on the forum...
Once I had my first set built I've never looked back. I run DT240CL hubs with Stans 355's and supercomps on my training wheels (1475 grams - lighter than XTR and Xmax, $100's less and more durable) and DT240CL's with Olympics and revo's on the race wheels (1345g same price as the 355's) The lightest Olympics hold up well for about 2 seasons with a tune here and there. The 355's are bombproof, will last for years without being touched. As a bonus you can get the spokes anywhere.

If you like Kings, have them build a set with 355's and you will be set!

If you can get a good deal, the XTR's are great as well, but they can be overpriced...
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
used2Bhard said:
When it comes to wheels, it's often hard to jump ship from the prebuilts, and build up a custom set.

If you like Kings, have them build a set with 355's and you will be set!

.
The wheels I was looking at were built by the shop and are the same that the owner recommended building - I just can't remember exactly what rims they were. He built them last year, so I can get a better price on them, but if there's a better set up, the price difference is not that much.

The reason I'm leaning towards King hubs is the instant engagement. On my old wheels, the angle between pawls makes it feel like I'm really struggling to get going from a stop on the trail. And if I have to ratchet through a tight spot, I really start to feel like I'm flailing around. I'm told the Kings will eliminate those issues - is that true - and a good reason to go with them vs. other options?

I'm always a bit slow of an adopter - the idea of tubeless has me nervous, but then again, after all of the pinch flats I got last Summer and Fall, I'm ready to switch. I've heard the trade off between heavier UST tires vs. Stan's kit and regular tires is close to being a wash?
 

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chuckred said:
I'm always a bit slow of an adopter - the idea of tubeless has me nervous, but then again, after all of the pinch flats I got last Summer and Fall, I'm ready to switch. I've heard the trade off between heavier UST tires vs. Stan's kit and regular tires is close to being a wash?
Either way (UST or standard) you need the stans kit with non-tubeless rims. It seals up the holes in the rim. Running a tubeless kit and UST's is very heavy!

Stan's rims use a kind of tape to seal up the holes, wheras XTR and Xmax have no spoke holes as the spokes mount differently. Bontrager tubless wheels use a rubber rimstrip that works well.

The DT rims are only tubeless when combined with the Eclipse kit or a Stans kit. Either option adds up to 80g per rim.

I always figure 50 -80g for sealant, then the tire weight. On my training wheels I use Tubeless tires, and then Standard on the race rims. There are good tubeless tires that aren't too heavy. You have to be picky. Some tires like the Larsen's can weigh nearly 800g! I like the Bontragers, Michelins, and Continental's. They have tubeless versions that are in the 600g range. Only a 100g penalty for a bombproof tire.

I average about 2 flats a year now compared with 40 beofre going tubeless. It also improves the ride and traction. Definitely worth it...especially in goathead country.
 

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used2Bhard said:
use a tubeless conversion kit = even more weight. QUOTE]

Educate me here. How is tubless conversion kit heavier then a good light weight tube? Yellow tape (±5 grams), Olympic valve stem (±20 grams) and couple scoop of sealants (±60 grams). Unless you use the Olympic rim strip that's roughly 40 grams? So depending on your set up you should be somewhere between 80-100 grams. Am I missing something?
 

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its not

WAZCO said:
used2Bhard said:
use a tubeless conversion kit = even more weight. QUOTE]

Educate me here. How is tubless conversion kit heavier then a good light weight tube? Yellow tape (±5 grams), Olympic valve stem (±20 grams) and couple scoop of sealants (±60 grams). Unless you use the Olympic rim strip that's roughly 40 grams? So depending on your set up you should be somewhere between 80-100 grams. Am I missing something?
Its not. I'm saying that taking a standard rim and adding a notubes conversion kit is heavier than having a tubeless rim/stans rim with yellow tape.

I'm pointing out that swapping to king hubs with the same rim then adding a conversion kit from eclpse or notubes, then adding a UST tire will add considerable weight.
 

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used2Bhard said:
WAZCO said:
Its not. I'm saying that taking a standard rim and adding.a notubes conversion kit is heavier than having a tubeless rim/stans rim with yellow tape.

I'm pionting out that swapping to king hubs with the same rim then adding a conversion kit from eclpse or notubes, then adding a UST tire will add considerable weight.
Thanks for the clairification.
 
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