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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Neil from <a href="https://www.cyclemonkey.com">Cycle Monkey</a>, in his spare time between some pretty wicked custom wheel builds, came up with a super-clean, weight-saving alternative to Rohloff's Speedbone. He was telling me about this just a few months ago, and yesterday dropped one of his first production samples into my hands.

Neil says he hasn't got a name for it yet. I'm suggesting "Brake Bone" just to keep with the Speedbone theme, but for this post, I'll just refer to it as the "adapter."

Now, to be fair, I don't know who should get credit for this idea, since I've seen posts and heard stories of other Speedhub users modifying their stock disc brake adapters to do something similar. However, it all derives from Rohloff's early foresight to design their OEM2 axle plate to engage directly with the rear-most IS mounting hole, which, initially, was a Speedbone alternative only if the user wasn't running a disc brake on their disc-compatible frame.

In any case, here it is. Check it out.

It's pretty much just an ordinary IS to post mount caliper adapter, modified with some well-placed slots.

This means, of course, that you've got to have a 74mm PM-style caliper, ala Avid, Hayes, some Shimano, Formula, and Magura units. (Did I miss any?)

<img src="https://www.booboodog.net/images/hub/pm-adapter-01.jpg">

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The adapter (plus the two original mounting bolts that came with your brake) weighs in at a svelte 32g. Note that the bolts are not included.

This replaces the original brake adapter, the Speedbone, and the two longer Rohloff-provided mounting bolts, which weigh in at 94g.

(new adapter)
<img src="https://www.booboodog.net/images/hub/pm-adapter-02.jpg">


(the parts being replaced)
<img src="https://www.booboodog.net/images/hub/pm-adapter-03.jpg">

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For those non-Speedhub owners browsing this thread, here's a shot of the Speedbone in action. Note the silver "nub" extending in towards the wheel, engaged from underneath by a plate mounted to the Speedhub.

<img src="https://www.booboodog.net/images/hub/pm-adapter-04.jpg">

Here's the same thing (Speedbone, disc brake adapter, and axle plate), off the bike.


<img src="https://www.booboodog.net/images/hub/pm-adapter-05.jpg">

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Cycle Money's adapter interfaces with the axle plate like this...

(from the right, looking out from the hub)
<img src="https://www.booboodog.net/images/hub/pm-adapter-07.jpg">


(from the left, looking in towards the disc tab)
<img src="https://www.booboodog.net/images/hub/pm-adapter-06.jpg">

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It's a simple installation, but will require the axle plate to be dismounted and rotated one to two slots counterclockwise.

<img src="https://www.booboodog.net/images/hub/pm-adapter-08.jpg">

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Here are the before and after shots. The new adapter serves to clean up the appearance of the bike by eliminating the Speedbone.

It also makes wheel insertion extremely intuitive, because the Speedhub's axle plate engages the adapter in roughly the same upward direction as it enters the vertical dropouts.

The 62g saved isn't going to noticable to any but the most agro weight weenie, but <i>Hey!</i>, it's something.

As you can see, this is going to position the external shifter box in a slightly different orientation from where it sits using the Speedbone.

(before)
<img src="https://www.booboodog.net/images/hub/pm-adapter-09.jpg">

(after)
<img src="https://www.booboodog.net/images/hub/pm-adapter-10.jpg">

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Neil is sourcing these in small quantities from a local machine shop, and is pricing the adapters at $35. He can be contacted through his www.CycleMonkey.com website. Rohloff is apparently on board, and will distribute them to vendors through their normal distribution channels.

Installation was as straight-forward as you'd expect. My only cautionary note: if you currently run any washers between your frame's tabs and the disc brake adapter, as spacers (and I do, on two of my Avid-equipped bikes), you'll need to make sure those washers are small enough in diameter (~10mm O.D.) that they won't interfere with the slot in the Speedhub's axle plate.

Fortunately, Avid includes two washers with their brakes *perfect* for this duty. You can see them in the second-to-last photo, sandwiched under the heads of the CPS/caliper mounting bolts. You'll note in the last photo, they've been replaced with larger-diameter hardware store washers; the Avid washers are now squeezed between the frame's IS tabs and Neil's adapter. (And again, this isn't a concern <i>unless you are already using washers</i> to bump in your existing caliper alignment... this new adapter conforms to IS standards, and will duplicate whatever caliper alignment you have now).
 

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Thanx for the idea/info.

From the photos I see , Tell me if I'm wrong:
If you put some thinner washers to your caliper you could have better contact surface between your caliper and disk , thus better braking.
 

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King of vegetarians
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Btw

My name suggestion is "Monkey bone",I think that would be the perfect name for it because it also considers Neils business name (Cycle Monkey).
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
fokof said:
Thanx for the idea/info.

From the photos I see , Tell me if I'm wrong:
If you put some thinner washers to your caliper you could have better contact surface between your caliper and disk , thus better braking.
I'm not sure I'm reading you right.

If I were using a two-piston hydraulic unit, I would want thinner spacers, in order to center the caliper over the rotor.

With the Avids being a single-sided actuator, they require some amount of rotor flex to engage the rotor with the inboard pad. So it is desireable to have the caliper shifted as far to the right (or, as far to the inside) as I can allow, providing the greatest amount of gap in the caliper slot to the side the rotor is flexing.

I find that allowing a bit of rotor flex really helps taylor the modulation of this brake, and I've seen installations where the rotor has ground a good bit of material out of the caliper body due to inattentiveness to caliper spacing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
yoginasser said:
Around 2 ounce savings with the Rohloff is nothing to pick ones nose at...
What's curious is whether this proves to be lighter than the OEM1 mounting option.

The OEM1 axle plate, mated to a frame with a Speedhub-specific dropout, <i>plus</i> a forged Avid brake adapter weighs 58g (37g axle plate + 21g forged adapter). But this 58g total does not include the extra material in the extended dropout, which could easily total another 20 to 30g (wild guess).

Neil's adapter, by comparison, totals 70g (42g axle plate + 28g machined adapter). But there is no extra frame material involved. And it arguably has a cleaner appearance.

Either way, it's close to a wash in weight. And there is no added expense or difficulty in frame design, as conventional vertical dropouts will suffice.

Again, I'm no weight weenie (the weight of the Speedbone was trivial to me), but analytically, the preferred OEM1 mounting method may have just lost favor for all except those with non-standard IS tabs (chainstay mounted), or with no disc tabs. Ironic, because a frame I've been waiting 8 months for -- with custom Speedhub-specific dropouts -- will be arriving in the coming weeks.

I like your suggestion for a name.
 

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King of vegetarians
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What's curious is whether this proves to be lighter than the OEM1 mounting option.

The OEM1 axle plate, mated to a frame with a Speedhub-specific dropout, <i>plus</i> a forged Avid brake adapter weighs 58g (37g axle plate + 21g forged adapter). But this 58g total does not include the extra material in the extended dropout, which could easily total another 20 to 30g (wild guess).

Neil's adapter, by comparison, totals 70g (42g axle plate + 28g machined adapter). But there is no extra frame material involved. And it arguably has a cleaner appearance.
That was going to be my next question and you alrady answered it:thumbsup:
And no doubt the appearance is simpler and cleaner.

Either way, it's close to a wash in weight. And there is no added expense or difficulty in frame design, as conventional vertical dropouts will suffice.

Again, I'm no weight weenie (the weight of the Speedbone was trivial to me), but analytically, the preferred OEM1 mounting method may have just lost favor for all except those with non-standard IS tabs (chainstay mounted), or with no disc tabs. Ironic, because a frame I've been waiting 8 months for -- with custom Speedhub-specific dropouts -- will be arriving in the coming weeks.
Everything happens for a perfect reason Nate.But tell me more about this frame that you have been waiting so long for,it sounds very interesting.
I am also about to start a new frame and my builder and I (at this point) are going with the idea of using track ends with slotted disc brake caliper mounts,I have not seen anyone do this with a Rohloff before but I sent pictures of such track ends to Carsten at Rohloff Germany and he said there should not be any problem with it other than maybe more care being needed when adjusting the wheel,do you have an opinion about this Nate or if you see any conflict in using this new adapter with this set up?
I am alittle surprised (but very glad) that Rohloff is on board as I would have thought that they would see this adapter as rendering their speed bone obsolete,not to mention the point that you brought up about the OEM1 that I did not consider.But hey,what works works!

I like your suggestion for a name.
Thank you:D It would be kool if he ends up choosing it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
yoginasser said:
...tell me more about this frame that you have been waiting so long for,it sounds very interesting.
</font>

The frame is a Mrazek Boh FX 29"er. <a href="http://www.mrazek.com">Mrazek</a> is a relatively small Cezch company that builds their frames in-house, but not necessarily to spec. I wasn't exactly looking for a replacement for my Buzz Bomb back in October when I first saw the Boh, but I immediately fell for the look and began talking to their US rep, Jeff, about customizing the dropouts for the Speedhub.

The company has been around since the early 90's and their frames have received some great writeups in various mags an in the MTBR reviews section. My biggest hesitation is switching from a sliding dropout to an EBB, but Mrazek tells me they've had no complaints about their setup, and my fingers are crossed.

<img src="http://www.mrazek.com/BOH%20FX%2029erLg.jpg">


yoginasser said:
I am also about to start a new frame and my builder and I have at this point are going with the idea of using track ends with slotted disc brake caliper mounts,I have not seen anyone do this with a Rohloff before but I sent pictures of such track ends to Carsten at Rohloff Germany and he said there should not be any problem with it other than maybe more care being needed when adjusting the wheel,do you have an opinion about this Nate or if you see any conflict in using this new adapter with this set up?
No, no experience with either. But I'm sure Carsten wouldn't steer you wrong. You're going with the Touring axle (bolt-on) Speedhub, I presume?

Is the disc adapter slotted only at one end, and anchored at the other? I wonder if a steel insert would be in order to allow it to be torqued tightly, or it that isn't a concern.

yoginasser said:
I am alittle surprised (but very glad) that Rohloff is on board as I would have thought that they would see this adapter as rendering their speed bone obsolete,not to mention the point that you brought up about the OEM1 that I did not consider.But hey,what works works!
I didn't ask. Rohloff is smart, though. Anything to add appeal to their product, whether this adapter or a click shifter, will positively impact their hub sales. Plus, it gets them out of the whole liability waiver deal with the Speedbone, which they initially seemed very serious about. And because their dropout drawings are openly available, I don't believe they are collecting any fees or royalties for frames produced for the OEM1 solution, so it's probably no great loss if that dwindles in popularity.
 

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King of vegetarians
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The frame is a Mrazek Boh FX 29"er. <a href="http://www.mrazek.com">Mrazek</a> is a relatively small Cezch company that builds their frames in-house, but not necessarily to spec. I wasn't exactly looking for a replacement for my Buzz Bomb back in October when I first saw the Boh, but I immediately fell for the look and began talking to their US rep, Jeff, about customizing the dropouts for the Speedhub.

The company has been around since the early 90's and their frames have received some great writeups in various mags an in the MTBR reviews section. My biggest hesitation is switching from a sliding dropout to an EBB, but Mrazek tells me they've had no complaints about their setup, and my fingers are crossed.

<img src="http://www.mrazek.com/BOH%20FX%2029erLg.jpg">
I`m a fan Mrazek,excellent choice Nate!Not having a funky looking derailleur hanging in the back should accentuate the beauty of that frame too.

No, no experience with either. But I'm sure Carsten wouldn't steer you wrong. You're going with the Touring axle (bolt-on) Speedhub, I presume?
TS DB actually,but with a beefy pitlock skewer.

Is the disc adapter slotted only at one end, and anchored at the other?
Undecided as of yet,but that would be the easiest for wheel removal as far as I can tell.I have heard from someone on this forum that has managed to make this same set up work (minus the rohloff) with wavy rotors in a way where there is no need for loosening any caliper adapter bolts and just pulling the wheel straight back when removing the wheel just by aligning the caliper with the bottom of the wave of the rotor when installing the wheel (I hope I didn`t confuse everyone with that explanation),it would be nice if the person who has done that chimes in as I am not %100 clear on this myself.The Rohloff set up would require loosening the bolt between the faceplate and the adapter,but it would be nice if there is no further adjustment needed.
I wonder if a steel insert would be in order to allow it to be torqued tightly, or it that isn't a concern.
I was visualizing a washer of some type or perhaps slotting the caliper mount at such an angle (not sure what would be best yet) that would not lend to the bolt loosening.Any Ideas?

I didn't ask. Rohloff is smart, though. Anything to add appeal to their product, whether this adapter or a click shifter, will positively impact their hub sales. Plus, it gets them out of the whole liability waiver deal with the Speedbone, which they initially seemed very serious about. And because their dropout drawings are openly available, I don't believe they are collecting any fees or royalties for frames produced for the OEM1 solution, so it's probably no great loss if that dwindles in popularity.
I see,makes sense.
Any info on the new Rohloff or Nicolai shifters yet?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
yoginasser said:
Any info on the new Rohloff or Nicolai shifters yet?
The news is "no new news." Thomas says there's been lots of interest, maybe in '08.

Is Nicolai making the click shifters? A few months back, I looked for a reference, couldn't find squat.
 

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King of vegetarians
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Speedub.Nate said:
The news is "no new news." Thomas says there's been lots of interest, maybe in '08.

Is Nicolai making the click shifters? A few months back, I looked for a reference, couldn't find squat.
I spoke to them at the end of last year and at that time they said that they should have a Rohloff trigger shifter ready for EuroBike,looks like it`s time to call them again on Monday:yesnod: I will keep you guys posted.
 

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I've contacted the boss at Cycle Monkey in an effort to purchase one of these new 'bones' myself.


Hopefully, I will be able to try one out on my RIP 9.


R.
 

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That's a really neat solution for all you retrofit guys.
 

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Guys, thanks for the name suggestion and for the enthusiasm. I think there is no other option than Monkey Bone.

My first hub went on a custom cross bike a few years ago and the frame builder I worked with wasn't keen on sliding dropouts so I used an ECBB and standard vertical dropout. I always thought the Speedbone setup looked a bit bulky. Now that most brake companies have gone to post mount (and the hub has gained in popularity) it seemed reasonable to have a custom bracket made. I'll get it photo'd and up on my website sometime soon.

Nate, thanks for the detailed photos showing exactly how it installs!

Neil
 

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King of vegetarians
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Guys, thanks for the name suggestion and for the enthusiasm. I think there is no other option than Monkey Bone.
Joy!!!Do I win anything;)

My first hub went on a custom cross bike a few years ago and the frame builder I worked with wasn't keen on sliding dropouts so I used an ECBB and standard vertical dropout. I always thought the Speedbone setup looked a bit bulky. Now that most brake companies have gone to post mount (and the hub has gained in popularity) it seemed reasonable to have a custom bracket made. I'll get it photo'd and up on my website sometime soon.

Nate, thanks for the detailed photos showing exactly how it installs!

Neil
Thank you for making it,great idea and beautiful job.

BTW:I was really digging this sweet lacing pattern that you have on your site

rohlofflace.jpg

I have not seen it before and I was wondering how it compares in strengths to the average lacing patter or if there are drawbacks?
 

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Hmmm, I'll have to think about a prize.

The 2 leading, 2 trailing pattern has worked fine for me on the dirt and on the road. I have several wheels with this pattern under several people and no complaints. I haven't gotten around to building a wheel stiffness jig but I have not seen any negative issues in use. I'm just coming up on 1 year for the oldest pair though.

From a practical standpoint, the standard 2x, 3x, or 4x (depending on number of spokes) patterns are strongest and will last the longest. With the high quality of spokes and rims available today, I think wheels can be built in more unique patterns and still provide an acceptable service life.

If you look at the way the spokes are grouped at the rim on the 2 leading / 2 trailing pattern, 4 spokes come from one side, then 4 from the other. This means that as the spokes pass through the bottom of the wheel and the tension relaxes, the rim will shift to one side a bit, becoming more prone to tacoing in this direction should a substantial side impact occur. The alternating spokes on a normal lacing reduce this and provide more even support. As the number of spokes decreases or the rim diameter increases, the gaps between spokes increase and the same thing occurs. Bontrager and other wheels have closely paired spokes, then a gap with no spokes, then another close pair to reduce the rim deflection. This leaves unsupported sections of rim for vertical impact, but that's another issue.

Soooo, it's not for everyone but it does add a unique touch to your bike - and a nice photo!

Neil
 

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King of vegetarians
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Hmmm, I'll have to think about a prize.
:band:
The 2 leading, 2 trailing pattern has worked fine for me on the dirt and on the road. I have several wheels with this pattern under several people and no complaints. I haven't gotten around to building a wheel stiffness jig but I have not seen any negative issues in use. I'm just coming up on 1 year for the oldest pair though.

From a practical standpoint, the standard 2x, 3x, or 4x (depending on number of spokes) patterns are strongest and will last the longest. With the high quality of spokes and rims available today, I think wheels can be built in more unique patterns and still provide an acceptable service life.

If you look at the way the spokes are grouped at the rim on the 2 leading / 2 trailing pattern, 4 spokes come from one side, then 4 from the other. This means that as the spokes pass through the bottom of the wheel and the tension relaxes, the rim will shift to one side a bit, becoming more prone to tacoing in this direction should a substantial side impact occur. The alternating spokes on a normal lacing reduce this and provide more even support. As the number of spokes decreases or the rim diameter increases, the gaps between spokes increase and the same thing occurs. Bontrager and other wheels have closely paired spokes, then a gap with no spokes, then another close pair to reduce the rim deflection. This leaves unsupported sections of rim for vertical impact, but that's another issue.

Soooo, it's not for everyone but it does add a unique touch to your bike - and a nice photo!

Neil
Thank you for all that great info,I have too many questions about all the kool services and stuff on your site so I guess that I will just call on Monday morning.
Yogi
 

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Speedub.Nate said:
Plus, it gets them out of the whole liability waiver deal with the Speedbone, which they initially seemed very serious about.
I'm not sure this really makes any difference, really. Very similar "unusual" forces are being applied to the disc mount with or without the Speedbone, so any concerns are still valid.

Anyway, looks pretty neat :). Better than my hacked up job anyway:
The thing I like about it besides looking better and it being more simple is that it makes getting the rear wheel on and off somewhat easier since the axle and disc mount point are more inline than with the Speedbone.
 
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