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I'm researching an aggressive Ti HT frame/bike for this spring. I'm a bit of a novice where frames are concerned, specifically Titanium. Two frames that currently have my interest are Chromag's Doctahawk and Sonder's Signal.
Could someone shed some light as to what makes one Ti frame $1500 and another $3k. I can get a complete Signal build for the price of the Doctahawk frame.A dumb question to ask but is one 2x's better than the others.
Just trying to figure out what am I paying twice the price for and is it worth it over the long haul.
 

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Generally the difference will be the quality and number of welds as well as the hardware/dropouts. There is a clear stratification in price between bikes where a set of standard tubes are welded together and bikes were a lot more effort and detail has been put into the frame. That does not mean that the cheaper bike is of a lesser quality ...
 

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I will just say that at $3,000 you are at the price for custom TI frame. For hardtails, how they ride is in large part dictated by the tubeset used. A production builder has to use a strong enough tubeset to make sure their frames don't break under a large aggressive rider. If you are not large and aggressive, you will likely end up with a heavier and stiffer frame then needed. In addition, with custom, you can work with the builder to get a geometry that works best for your riding style and use.
 

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I have two Moots, one Dean, and a new Carver.....the Moots do two weld passes and look beYOOTiful, that being said I also love my other bikes....The custom Carver was cheaper, but would say that welds may not be as pretty, but still look AWESOME. Love riding all my bikes.
 

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I have two Moots, one Dean, and a new Carver.....the Moots do two weld passes and look beYOOTiful, that being said I also love my other bikes....The custom Carver was cheaper, but would say that welds may not be as pretty, but still look AWESOME. Love riding all my bikes.
I call BS on the Dean, nobody who has ever ordered one has actually received their frame. :rolleyes:
 
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Like everyone else is saying, there’s not a direct correlation between price and ride ‘goodness’. The ride is tubing choice and geometry. I’ve had ti bikes I hate and others i love. Ti bikes both too flexy and too stiff.

like you’ve probably heard, ti is hard to work with and small issue with cleanliness can mean fatigue problems down the road. I’d get the bike that rides nicest, but only if it has support you trust.

I bought my Kona raijin used, developed a small 2mm crack at base of seatpost slot. Has an aluminum sleeve pressed against the ti. Kona was useless but Lynsey (who made the frame for Kona) said they’d replace the entire seat tube for a very reasonable fee. Solid. Instead I got a double wide seat clamp and it’s held fine for years.

Anyway, advertising is fun but I would never buy a bike I didn’t ride first.
 

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oh shoot. Good call @jeremy3220 . There were a couple ti frames made . . https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2830502/

but it looks like they never hit production.
right, they produced two titanium doctahawk frames, but they did not (yet) enter serial production. the standard model is 4130 chromo steel, made in canada by brad howlett.
they do offer the slightly less aggressive rootdown in steel and ti, both made in taiwan. the price of the ti version is almost 4x the price of the steel.

i have a 2016 kona honzo ti, built up with a 130mm fox36, 2° angleset, and 29x2.6 minions. excellent trail bike, with a great geometry, and light and comfortable enough for long days in the saddle. sadly it is no longer in production.
i also have said doctahawk in steel, with a 180mm yari and 27x2.8 minions, which sits right in the middle of the enduro bracket. in spite of the added weight, compared to the honzo ti, it is a very good climber - which i attribute to the steep seat angle. and obviously a badass smasher on the downs.

the reasons for the price differences of different ti frame offerings have already been discussed above. if you're looking for aggressive ti frames in the range of 1000 - 2000 euros, you could check out the nordest bardino ti, or the kingdom bikes vendetta, in addition to the sonder you already mentioned. an interesting alternative is the planet x moto loco (ti version of the infamous hello dave), which seems to be only available as a full build, but at a killer price, and apparently it's in stock.
 

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The cost of a Ti bike or frame is related to distribution efficiency as much as more than it is related to quality.
The frame factory that makes my Ti bikes builds for several brands other than Motobecane. All of these brands sell their frames and complete bikes for at least double our pricing. Some for triple. Same quality of build and tubing; and massive price difference. So frame material and quality of build, in my experience are not the big factors in final price that many would like you to believe.

I am super happy with the Moto Ti bikes, I love Ti and 853 bikes. My major issue is I can not get them as quickly as they sell. Have Ti road, gravel, Fat, and hardtail 29ers on order - but it could be easily over a year to get them. (Same with 853 - on order but the wait is super long)

side note: I see a coming increase in quality steel and Ti demand, as customers get bored with CF
 

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Pretty sure Sonder can build you a custom Signal. I know as a mate had a Ti Signal that cracked before the gusset at the steerer tube/downtube junction. I understand it was a heat/weld related issue and it happened a couple of months from purchase .While they were handling his warranty they told him that they could build the replacement frame with his choice of geo. They use a Ti builder in China and it took a while but he's has the frame for two years now, bike gets used a ton, has travelled abroad, bikepacked, raced enduros and it's going strong.

I understand there are more bespoke builders but Sonder's customer support is excellent and the frame is more than decent.
 

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I would look at the Knolly Tyaughton Ti frame.
Great looking frame. Do you happen to know where they are welded?

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
 

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I was after an all/adventure type frame but went pretty nuts trying stuff, testing and doing homework with choices. To start, like many things in the sport there are diminishing returns as you spend.

One thing I noticed was a lot of bikes used a same straight gauge tube set while the best use different tube diameters, tube thickness, sleeves, and some butting. The latter does a lot to increase the price. Instead of buy a tube set from wholesaler they're making a mix for the bike and size.

I could see the obvious difference in labor. Some off shore and some brands have larger ti makers subcontract their frames in Tennessee. That's a big part of the price.

Finish varies. Not just the welds but threaded mounts. Some are simply polished. Some have some anodizing.

Admittedly, I went rather nuts with a Moots and I have no regrets. Somehow unlike some I tried they have the same super comfy feel but are also super solid or stiff feeling. Threads and everything is just perfect. It replaces a similar steel bike and my old self can sit on it for 1-3 hours longer without regretting it the next day.

I also tried MTB hard tails. I think the MTB tire size disguised some of the magic I sensed in the gravel/tour/adventure bikes but they were still wonderful.

As much as each ti bike I tried was great, the Moots ride, touch, assembly and look really does reflect the huge amount of experience they have. I'm sure it could be done for less money if someone was doing the same off shore but I'm okay with the premium paid for my US made frame and assembled in WI Bontrager wheels.

 
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