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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm sitting here editing these pictures I shot for Jim Kish of a very unique bike that I really want to try while we are on our 6th straight day of high winds and heavy rains, it's killing me to not be able to try this thing out! Can't imagine it's more than 13 lbs, bunnyhops would be so easy it would be dangerous. It's kind of a BMX meets Ti singlespeed thing, very cool but it looks like I won't get to ride it, bummer. Oh well, makes my messy studio/garage look more classy!

Here's a few pics
 

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Those pictures make it look like there is some serious undercut on those welds. Hopefully it's just the lighting. Especially on the head tube area
 

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kmac999 said:
Those pictures make it look like there is some serious undercut on those welds. Hopefully it's just the lighting. Especially on the head tube area
Are you referring to the angles? HT?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
kmac999 said:
Those pictures make it look like there is some serious undercut on those welds. Hopefully it's just the lighting. Especially on the head tube area
Yeah, you are seeing something the judges who awarded the bike Best Titanium Frame didn't.... LOL

Only on mtbr!
 

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Very pretty. Call me old fashioned though but I'd have thought a front brake wasn't optional on a mountain bike.
 

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kmac999 said:
Those pictures make it look like there is some serious undercut on those welds. Hopefully it's just the lighting. Especially on the head tube area
+1 I thought the exact same thing as soon as I saw the pics. I wonder if it's just an optical illusion?
 

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That's a beauty. I like the mounting location of the rear brake, too. It makes the bike look really clean. I've never seen brakes mounted down there before either (probably for practical reasons, but it still looks cool nonetheless :D )
 

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TheNightman said:
I've never seen brakes mounted down there before either (probably for practical reasons, but it still looks cool nonetheless :D )
What's old is new! ;)

It is beautiful, no doubt!

I've got a Merlin (Cir. 1988) that I converted into a Townie with a "U-Brake" on it!
 

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naya the dingo said:
+1 I thought the exact same thing as soon as I saw the pics. I wonder if it's just an optical illusion?
Beautiful welds but I'm seeing the same thing. Got to be the lighting. I hope.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Try this: 99% of all LCD monitors are set way too bright so I wonder if you guys are seeing all the detail that there is to be seen in these images or if it's just going white in the highlights (right on the weld) as your monitors are set too bright? For reference, my graphics monitors are hardware calibrated to commercial printing standards. Even so, brightness on one is set to 0, the other 13%. The 0% one is still too bright so is not suitable for judging brightness. On that one the entire reflection on the head tube welds is white so you can't see any detail. Try turning down your brightness and see if you can't see some detail that's otherwise not visible.

I'm just not seeing what you guys are seeing so I'm putting up the pic from the other side unedited that might help. Ignore the rubs, that's why I had shot the other side (didn't feel like polishing it up). But I'm just not seeing any way to judge that the tube is short based on what I'm seeing.
 

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photodog said:
Try this: 99% of all LCD monitors are set way too bright so I wonder if you guys are seeing all the detail that there is to be seen in these images or if it's just going white in the highlights (right on the weld) as your monitors are set too bright? For reference, my graphics monitors are hardware calibrated to commercial printing standards. Even so, brightness on one is set to 0, the other 13%. The 0% one is still too bright so is not suitable for judging brightness. On that one the entire reflection on the head tube welds is white so you can't see any detail. Try turning down your brightness and see if you can't see some detail that's otherwise not visible.

I'm just not seeing what you guys are seeing so I'm putting up the pic from the other side unedited that might help. Ignore the rubs, that's why I had shot the other side (didn't feel like polishing it up). But I'm just not seeing any way to judge that the tube is short based on what I'm seeing.
That looks better in that picture. It's not that the headtube is short, "undercut" is a welding term. If you run your finger across the weld can you feel a ridge on either side?
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
naya the dingo said:
That looks better in that picture. It's not that the headtube is short, "undercut" is a welding term. If you run your finger across the weld can you feel a ridge on either side?
As if it was welded just from the end of the tube and not enough over the outside, correct? No, I don't feel any ridges, feels smooth to me (other than the beads of the welds of course).

I think I see what you mean in the first pic of the HT area though as the shadow from the overhead light falling does make it look odd but on the high res pics you can see it's still flat. It's actually the shadow from the headset overhanging that just happens to fall right in the weld making it look weird. Even on the second pic the angle of the light makes it look odd but on a totally different spot.

Might just re-shoot those tight head tube shots, glad it got figured out so I know what to watch for on the next shoot. I don't shoot a whole lot of bikes so it's good to learn what to watch out for. Who'd have thought I'd get good commercial photography feedback on MTBR!?
 

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photodog said:
As if it was welded just from the end of the tube and not enough over the outside, correct? No, I don't feel any ridges, feels smooth to me (other than the beads of the welds of course).

I think I see what you mean in the first pic of the HT area though as the shadow from the overhead light falling does make it look odd but on the high res pics you can see it's still flat. It's actually the shadow from the headset overhanging that just happens to fall right in the weld making it look weird. Even on the second pic the angle of the light makes it look odd but on a totally different spot.

Might just re-shoot those tight head tube shots, glad it got figured out so I know what to watch for on the next shoot. I don't shoot a whole lot of bikes so it's good to learn what to watch out for. Who'd have thought I'd get good commercial photography feedback on MTBR!?
http://www.vendettacycles.com/vendettacycles/lugs.htm

There is a picture of undercut about halfway down the page in the link. Basically, it gets too hot, or not enough filler rod is added, and it pulls material from the tubing into the weld. That creates thin/weak spots in the tubing on one, or both sides of the bead.
 

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put some rain gear on and go ride. if we didn't ride int he rain, we would never get to ride.
its a bike, who cares if it gets wet.
 

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tim208 said:
put some rain gear on and go ride. if we didn't ride int he rain, we would never get to ride.
its a bike, who cares if it gets wet.
A lot of people care if it gets wet. :thumbsup:
 

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photodog said:
Try this: 99% of all LCD monitors are set way too bright so I wonder if you guys are seeing all the detail that there is to be seen in these images or if it's just going white in the highlights (right on the weld) as your monitors are set too bright? For reference, my graphics monitors are hardware calibrated to commercial printing standards. Even so, brightness on one is set to 0, the other 13%. The 0% one is still too bright so is not suitable for judging brightness. On that one the entire reflection on the head tube welds is white so you can't see any detail. Try turning down your brightness and see if you can't see some detail that's otherwise not visible.

I'm just not seeing what you guys are seeing so I'm putting up the pic from the other side unedited that might help. Ignore the rubs, that's why I had shot the other side (didn't feel like polishing it up). But I'm just not seeing any way to judge that the tube is short based on what I'm seeing.
the weld does look undercut in the pictures. it could be an illusion but it shows up in all the pics. as far as it being an award winner and that meaning its welds are perfect, that's pure bs. welds are tested by x-ray and other methods, not by eye other than undercut which looks present and i doubt the nahbs does non destructive testing of welds at the show



https://www.prest-o-lite.com/EUWeb/MIG_handbook/592mig10_5.htm
 

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Interesting welding lesson ITT. Kish bike are pretty awesome, and come with a hefty price tag. I suspect he doesn't make too many welding errors :)
 

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Here's my guess:

In terms of structural integrity vs aesthetics, I believe the builder would try to have the welds as flat as possible, since grinding wouldn't be an option on bare Ti.

So you'd take the risk of being minimally undercut vs overfilling the weld and ruining it all.
 
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