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Big Mac
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
To be clear, I am not a PAS hater. I wish them the best and hope that they will someday become an effective organization. As of right now, they are not. In fact I see them as more of a liability than anything. PAS has ZERO credibility with the FS at this point. Why would I want to be associated with that? It seems PAS may well be a sinking ship. Many saw the writing on the wall and jumped ship. I was one of them. Bad attitudes and poor leadership have resulted in a stigma that for many will be hard to shake. Maybe at some point PAS will their ***** together, but I question their ability to do what needs to be done. It's a shame really. Why is it so hard? Maybe this latest little rally will lead to some positive change. I hope so, but I have my doubts. Until that time I will choose to distance myself from PAS. Best of luck.
 

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I can't wait to see what you come up with! I'm glad that you're stepping up and devoting time toward making a real positive change in the area.

I'm pretty sure you can count on a great response from area riders and the FS. Keep us posted.
 

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Big Mac
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
D.F.L. said:
I can't wait to see what you come up with! I'm glad that you're stepping up and devoting time toward making a real positive change in the area.

I'm pretty sure you can count on a great response from area riders and the FS. Keep us posted.
Thanks for proving my point. It's you and your ilk, with your aggressive disdain for anyone that doesn't agree with you, that keep the status quo. Nice work. What is that, exactly that you have done that is so awesome wonderboy? I simply can not wait to hear! Jeez, you seem like a real pleasant fella.:madman:
 

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mbmb65 said:
Thanks for proving my point. It's you and your ilk, with your aggressive disdain for anyone that doesn't agree with you, that keep the status quo. Nice work. What is that, exactly that you have done that is so awesome wonderboy? I simply can not wait to hear! Jeez, you seem like a real pleasant fella.:madman:
he does build nice frames though.

Big Mac, you know I have the same opinion about PAS you do but it doesn't seem to be making any difference. That is why I'm going to the PAS meeting monday night and joining again. I will try and help change the image that has been created by PAS through my own actions and work. If I still get the same BS, well at least I can say I was involved. What time do you want me to pick you up?
 

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Big Mac
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
cruso414 said:
he does build nice frames though.

Big Mac, you know I have the same opinion about PAS you do but it doesn't seem to be making any difference. That is why I'm going to the PAS meeting monday night and joining again. I will try and help change the image that has been created by PAS through my own actions and work. If I still get the same BS, well at least I can say I was involved. What time do you want me to pick you up?
MEH. I've seen his frames. Nothing special. I applaud you for stepping up and getting involved with PAS. I've not the time nor resources to devote (again) to a poorly run and ineffective club. I hope that you and your crazy arse namesake:D can make a difference. If and when you do, I'll be the first to re-enlist. Till then, I really don't want to be associated with PAS. I will pay attention and look for positive change and progress. Have fun and do good work!
 

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Gabe.....
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1,182 Posts
"I've seen his frames. Nothing special."...............they seem pretty special to me, I think I know what I'm talking about.
Just got off the trail and saw that PAS is on the trail doing WORK on the well known Sidehill connector........good to see things happening. I will definitely give PAS a chance and support the local efforts. gabe
 

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Big Mac
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Smokebikes said:
"I've seen his frames. Nothing special."...............they seem pretty special to me, I think I know what I'm talking about.
Just got off the trail and saw that PAS is on the trail doing WORK on the well known Sidehill connector........good to see things happening. I will definitely give PAS a chance and support the local efforts. gabe
They don't to me. I too think I know what I'm talking about. Doesn't mean I do though. Like I said, I'm not a hater. I have no reason to trust the current administration, why is that hard to understand. For all you that support/continue to support PAS. Good on Ya! I hoppe to feel good enough about them in the future to re-up.
 

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pronounced may-duh
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mbmb65 said:
PAS has ZERO credibility with the FS at this point.
is this the crux of your argument? If so then it's just not true. I can't imagine what led you to this false assumption. Lets get some facts: according to this PAS has an agreement to work with the FS. Do you think the forest service would deal with a group that has "ZERO credibility"? I sure hope not. I really don't think the FS is that foolish.

Where are the facts that support your argument. Do you have any documentation or is this another case of truthiness?:confused:
 

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pronounced may-duh
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mbmb65 said:
Thanks for proving my point. It's you and your ilk, with your aggressive disdain for anyone that doesn't agree with you, that keep the status quo. Nice work. What is that, exactly that you have done that is so awesome wonderboy? I simply can not wait to hear! Jeez, you seem like a real pleasant fella.:madman:
Why don't you ask yourself the same questions? What have you done? What actions will you take?

I'm not trying to make you mad or insult you. I'm looking for solutions. If you feel there is a problem then you should provide a solution.
 

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cruso414 said:
he does build nice frames though.

Big Mac, you know I have the same opinion about PAS you do but it doesn't seem to be making any difference. That is why I'm going to the PAS meeting monday night and joining again. I will try and help change the image that has been created by PAS through my own actions and work. If I still get the same BS, well at least I can say I was involved. What time do you want me to pick you up?
Cruso, I have been looking for an excuse to get more involved with PAS myself... I am going to try to be there Monday as well... PAS has done tons for this area over the years....

Edit:..Despite it's recent bad press, (only one incident I can think of) I am a believer in its advocacy for mountain biking as a whole... I think part of the problem is, 20 years ago when I started riding, there was just one interest group-mtn bikers! Now, there are so many different forms of riding and many different opinions within our own user group as to what is "right". We need to come together and help the sport for everyone!
 

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pronounced may-duh
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4,306 Posts
mbmb65 said:
MEH. I've seen his frames. Nothing special. I applaud you for stepping up and getting involved with PAS. I've not the time nor resources to devote (again) to a poorly run and ineffective club. I hope that you and your crazy arse namesake:D can make a difference. If and when you do, I'll be the first to re-enlist. Till then, I really don't want to be associated with PAS. I will pay attention and look for positive change and progress. Have fun and do good work!
Really? Your ability to complain is disproportionate to your commitment for resolve. That's shameful. Time for a reality check. If you want something done your way, your gonna have to do it yourself. I'm sorry but that's the way life is.
 

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Single Speed Junkie
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I applaud cruso for going and getting involved. I appreciate the work that PAS does for the bike community, even if I don't agree with every decision. At this point in my life I'm not able to be as involved as I would like but I can send them a check. It still amazes me that so many people use Bent Creek and just expect it to be their "right" and not feel a need to give back in any way. so I'll take this opportunity to say thanks for advocating on behalf of mountain bikers in WNC.
 

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I switched my SORBA membership from Upstate to PAS a year ago. I still don't know that much about the organization, because I live too far away to go to meetings and so forth. I have met some good folks through this site who are members. It does seem to me that if you want to improve an organization, it would be better to get involved in that organization and work from within rather than *****ing and moaning on a public forum.
 

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Gabe.....
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mbmb65 said:
They don't to me. I too think I know what I'm talking about. Doesn't mean I do though. Like I said, I'm not a hater. I have no reason to trust the current administration, why is that hard to understand. For all you that support/continue to support PAS. Good on Ya! I hoppe to feel good enough about them in the future to re-up.
This is pretty freakin' special...............look at the TIG work, just sayin'. Stickel is the real deal! :thumbsup:
 

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I don't know MBMB at all, but can't understand his motives. He starts out by saying that he's not a PAS hater and "wishes them well," but then goes on with the attack... "Liability... Zero Credibility... Bad attitudes... Poor Leadership... Sinking Ship." ByStickel appropriately calls him out and essentially asks if he has an constructive ideas, only to have the criticism turn in his direction.

I've just joined PAS and aside from the membership fee, have not yet given of my time. I did feel pangs of guilt today as I rode by the PAS trailer at Bent Creek and saw the work crew on the Lower Sidehill Connector. I can understand constructive criticism, and would love to hear ideas on further the sport in WNC, but the personal attacks (in the absence of more facts, and alternative plans) need to stop.
 

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Big Mac
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Maida7 said:
is this the crux of your argument? If so then it's just not true. I can't imagine what led you to this false assumption. Lets get some facts: according to this PAS has an agreement to work with the FS. Do you think the forest service would deal with a group that has "ZERO credibility"? I sure hope not. I really don't think the FS is that foolish.

Where are the facts that support your argument. Do you have any documentation or is this another case of truthiness?:confused:
OK, maybe "little credibility" is a better choice. I know this to be true. The FS allows PAS to do work with very strict guidelines and rules, as it should be. I'm not sure why that statement seems so absurd.
 

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Big Mac
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Maida7 said:
Why don't you ask yourself the same questions? What have you done? What actions will you take?

I'm not trying to make you mad or insult you. I'm looking for solutions. If you feel there is a problem then you should provide a solution.
Good point. I was an active PAS member. I want to be involved. I have asked myself these questions many times. I don't have the solution. My question now is whether PAS is the answer.
 

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Big Mac
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Maida7 said:
Really? Your ability to complain is disproportionate to your commitment for resolve. That's shameful. Time for a reality check. If you want something done your way, your gonna have to do it yourself. I'm sorry but that's the way life is.
No need for apologies. But I'm not sure I see your point.
 
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