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A few months ago (right after Keyesville) I decided that I wanted to find an early fillet-brazed bike to restore. I think it was seeing all those Ritchey's and Potts' bikes up at the race, but whatever the reason, that was going to be my next project. I spent the next two or three months scouring Ebay, CL, the classifieds here, etc., but nothing I could afford was coming up. There were plenty of bikes, but I didn't want one that was already finished, and with the dollar sucking so hard the Euro's were boosting prices so high that I was priced out of the game anyway.
About 3 weeks ago someone revived an old thread posted by Bigwheel back in 2006 trying to identify an old bike: https://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=190223
I hadn't seen that thread back then, but I was up late and noticed it when it was bumped back to the front page. The frame looked well made and had some interesting features, so I posted a half-joking comment that if he wanted to sell it to let me know. Shortly thereafter Bigwheel sent me a PM, we agreed on a price, and in a week or so it was in my garage
.
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The first thing that needed to be done was stripping all that crap paint off, which took a few days, but I'm not exactly working at a blazing pace:
![]()
Now comes the "detective" part: No one knows who made this thing, but I'd like to get all of you involved in trying to figure it out. Below is everything I know about the frame, along with all of the features that are unique or unusual enough to separate it from any known builders' work, and as many photos as I can post showing the details.
Known facts:
1) Bigwheel picked this up in from a shop called "Tune Up" in Gunnison several years ago, where it was used in the 24 hour Townie World Championship. I'm guessing it was one of them that gave it the rattle-can camo paint job (see link above).
2) The guys at Tune Up thought it was built by Steve Potts, but this doesn't look like any Potts I've ever seen and I think they were just guessing. The only thing resembling a serial number is this stamped into one of the dropouts, but it could also just be a Shimano part number:
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3) Based on the geometry and the components that were on it, this is almost certainly a Nor Cal bike, or someone who was heavily influenced by the Marin crew. Below is a sub-list of the key features that identify it as such:
-Angles are 69/69
-17.25" chainstays
-When Bigwheel pulled the seatpost out for the first time, a WTB modified
Zefal pump fell out. (He generously included this when he shipped the frame.)
![]()
-Bull Moose bars with brazed-in steer tube extension on the fork for it to clamp on to.
![]()
-Ovalized seat tube at the BB, like a Ritchey.
4)There are also a couple of features that seem to indicate that the builder had road bike building experience:
-Fish-mouthed stays at the drop-outs. (see photo above)
-Chain hanger on the right seat stay.
5) At the same time, there are some definite MTB features that you wouldn't see on a road bike from this time period:
-Reinforcement around bottom of the head tube.
![]()
-Down tube gusset at the head tube junction.
![]()
-Massive ovalized/flattened seat stays, made from a non-tapering tube.
-Seat post clamp requires a Sun Tour or Specialized style quick release.
-Massive chainstay and seatstay bridges, and rear canti cable stop.
![]()
6) Then there are the features that aren't road or MTB specific, just very nice or very strange:
-The caps on the tops of the seatstays are great, very nicely done.
![]()
-Vertical dropouts. I thought these came much later, but correct me if I'm wrong.
-Ovalized seat tube at the BB junction. Not the cleanest job ever, but not bad for
being done with a hammer (probably ).
-The seat stays are really nicely done. They're ovalized along the whole length,
becoming progressively "flatter" as they approach the dropouts. It must have
taken a lot of cold-working labor to get them so consistent and even on both
sides.
-This gusset at the seat post clamp is a mystery, I can't figure out how he did it.
It's obviously brazed on and seems to wrap around the top of the seat tube, but
it disappears under the top of the stays and there is no sign of it from the front
or inside of the seat tube. Pacific Coast Chuck and I looked at it closely, but
we're both at a loss as to how it was done.
![]()
-The frame is straight as an arrow, whoever built it knew how to use an alignment
table.
![]()
7) Problems or sloppy build areas:
-The chainstay bridge is brazed in crooked. I can't figure out how you
could spend so much time on the stays or the canti cable hanger, then flub
something so simple.
-The head tube/down tube gusset is a good idea, but it looks kind of clunky.
Same as above, you'd think the builder could have finished it a little nicer.
-The head tube was cut too short, so much so that the builder had to put a dent in
the top tube to make room for the top head set cup to clear the frame.
![]()
So that's everything I have on the frame set, hopefully there's a Sherlock Holmes or two among the crowd here who is up to a challenge. Or maybe we can put our collective minds together and figure this thing out. Below is a post dedicated to all of the components that came with the frame, and also what I've collected so far to complete the build. The post below that is reserved for a future update, probably about painting it since I'm planning to do that myself.
About 3 weeks ago someone revived an old thread posted by Bigwheel back in 2006 trying to identify an old bike: https://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=190223
I hadn't seen that thread back then, but I was up late and noticed it when it was bumped back to the front page. The frame looked well made and had some interesting features, so I posted a half-joking comment that if he wanted to sell it to let me know. Shortly thereafter Bigwheel sent me a PM, we agreed on a price, and in a week or so it was in my garage
.
The first thing that needed to be done was stripping all that crap paint off, which took a few days, but I'm not exactly working at a blazing pace:
Now comes the "detective" part: No one knows who made this thing, but I'd like to get all of you involved in trying to figure it out. Below is everything I know about the frame, along with all of the features that are unique or unusual enough to separate it from any known builders' work, and as many photos as I can post showing the details.
Known facts:
1) Bigwheel picked this up in from a shop called "Tune Up" in Gunnison several years ago, where it was used in the 24 hour Townie World Championship. I'm guessing it was one of them that gave it the rattle-can camo paint job (see link above).
2) The guys at Tune Up thought it was built by Steve Potts, but this doesn't look like any Potts I've ever seen and I think they were just guessing. The only thing resembling a serial number is this stamped into one of the dropouts, but it could also just be a Shimano part number:
3) Based on the geometry and the components that were on it, this is almost certainly a Nor Cal bike, or someone who was heavily influenced by the Marin crew. Below is a sub-list of the key features that identify it as such:
-Angles are 69/69
-17.25" chainstays
-When Bigwheel pulled the seatpost out for the first time, a WTB modified
Zefal pump fell out. (He generously included this when he shipped the frame.)
-Bull Moose bars with brazed-in steer tube extension on the fork for it to clamp on to.
-Ovalized seat tube at the BB, like a Ritchey.
4)There are also a couple of features that seem to indicate that the builder had road bike building experience:
-Fish-mouthed stays at the drop-outs. (see photo above)
-Chain hanger on the right seat stay.
5) At the same time, there are some definite MTB features that you wouldn't see on a road bike from this time period:
-Reinforcement around bottom of the head tube.
-Down tube gusset at the head tube junction.
-Massive ovalized/flattened seat stays, made from a non-tapering tube.
-Seat post clamp requires a Sun Tour or Specialized style quick release.
-Massive chainstay and seatstay bridges, and rear canti cable stop.
6) Then there are the features that aren't road or MTB specific, just very nice or very strange:
-The caps on the tops of the seatstays are great, very nicely done.
-Vertical dropouts. I thought these came much later, but correct me if I'm wrong.
-Ovalized seat tube at the BB junction. Not the cleanest job ever, but not bad for
being done with a hammer (probably
).-The seat stays are really nicely done. They're ovalized along the whole length,
becoming progressively "flatter" as they approach the dropouts. It must have
taken a lot of cold-working labor to get them so consistent and even on both
sides.
-This gusset at the seat post clamp is a mystery, I can't figure out how he did it.
It's obviously brazed on and seems to wrap around the top of the seat tube, but
it disappears under the top of the stays and there is no sign of it from the front
or inside of the seat tube. Pacific Coast Chuck and I looked at it closely, but
we're both at a loss as to how it was done.
-The frame is straight as an arrow, whoever built it knew how to use an alignment
table.
7) Problems or sloppy build areas:
-The chainstay bridge is brazed in crooked. I can't figure out how you
could spend so much time on the stays or the canti cable hanger, then flub
something so simple.
-The head tube/down tube gusset is a good idea, but it looks kind of clunky.
Same as above, you'd think the builder could have finished it a little nicer.
-The head tube was cut too short, so much so that the builder had to put a dent in
the top tube to make room for the top head set cup to clear the frame.
So that's everything I have on the frame set, hopefully there's a Sherlock Holmes or two among the crowd here who is up to a challenge. Or maybe we can put our collective minds together and figure this thing out. Below is a post dedicated to all of the components that came with the frame, and also what I've collected so far to complete the build. The post below that is reserved for a future update, probably about painting it since I'm planning to do that myself.
