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I ride a Swarf
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi

Thought I'd post this here (Till me dedicated lights section turns up hehe).

Not used em in anger yet. It looks like a nice bit of kit. nice spot beam. the spot is a fair bit tighter than my trail tech hid (but thats the 13degree flood one aswell) which suits me....i want a good bright spot for helmet use to be used in conjunction with the HID on the bars. the spot looks brighter than the brightest part of my HID.

I haven't confirmed this with measuremeants (Will do at work, we have a hall affect current clamp...it measures current by putting a clamp around a cable, no need to cut the wire and put anything in series like a ammeter). Anyway, I don't think that this is being driven at the full 1000mA that luxeons can take. I think its running at 700mA. The claimed burn time is 5+ hours from the 2.7AH battery. My rough sums indicate that it must be running at the lower current level.

So....if this is the case I might build my own controller (replacing the once attached to the battery). If I do I will include a variable brightness setting so that the burn time isn't hammered. I might pop the light open to check how well the LEDs are thermally bonded to the body....don't want to fry em. Hopefully the reflectors will be ok with that too :eek:) .

I am kind of hoping they are at the lower level...they are bright now....and I can make em brighter hehe.

Also....now this is in the public domain hehe....are there legal issues making my own controller....its not like I am reverse engineering anything. Just checkin hehe. If it is dodgy....I am not going to build a new controller....honest!

Stu
 

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Stuart B said:
Hi

Also....now this is in the public domain hehe....are there legal issues making my own controller....its not like I am reverse engineering anything. Just checkin hehe. If it is dodgy....I am not going to build a new controller....honest!

Stu
You own it, you can do with it whatever you want. No warranty afterwards. Post your thoughts on the double shot. I am hung up between the double shot and the Dinotte 5w for the helmet. I have the triple shot and love it.
Dan C.
 

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Yeah. Love to see some beam shots.

The Dual Luxeon III Double Shot will have more throw than the single Luxeon V DiNotte and thus make a better helmet light in my opinion. My comment is based on personal experience with my homebuilt Triple Luxeon III and Dual Luxeon V lights, and a fellow rider's DiNotte. Also, the DiNotte is underpowered in my opinion ( although I believe other battery packs are available).

I agree with Stu. I don't see how you could get 5 hours from a 2.7A batttery if you're driving the LEDs to their max output level (spec'd at 1amp). It's a 12v battery and the LEDs should only need 7 or 8 volts, so there's some reason for less than the 1A current draw. For example, when I drive my Triple Lux III LED light with the 1amp Buckpuck, it only draws about 750mA from my 14.4v battery pack.

CatEye might be running the LEDs at a lower current for extended battery life and better cooling... not to mention longer LED life... not that they wouldn't last 50,000 hrs at 1 amp :)
- Allen
 

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Cateye list the double with a 12V 2.7AH battery, which is 32.4WH. Since 2 Luxeon-IIIs draws around 6.5W, that would be ~5 hours. I suspect they are driving it near 1A.

You can do what you want with the light since you bought it, but you'll void the warrenttee if you modify it, obviously. I wouldn't. Run it as it is. Maybe change the optics if you don't like the beam.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I'll post my comments on it once I have used on the trails.

As far as warrenty goes...theres isn't much of one really as I bought it on ebay from the US, I am in England.

I did my calcs as you did, its gives just over 4 hours using 1000mA and 3.9V per led as the data sheet says is typical to get 1000mA. Using 700mA and 3.7V per LED it runs for 6 hours. So my guess is they run somewhere in between. may calcs ingore parasitics and effeicemcy of the controller as well.

I'll try an take some piccies of the beam and out on the trail comparing them to my HID.

Stu
 

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Stuart B said:
I did my calcs as you did, its gives just over 4 hours using 1000mA and 3.9V per led as the data sheet says is typical to get 1000mA. Using 700mA and 3.7V per LED it runs for 6 hours. So my guess is they run somewhere in between. may calcs ingore parasitics and effeicemcy of the controller as well.
Well, before you take apart the nicely integrated electronics, I'd still put the unit on a meter and see what it is drawing. Specs are often over-inflated (like hp ratings on cars).

Here's some food for thought:

Vf on a Luxeon-III can range from ~3.5V ~ 4V depending on bin.
New NiMH often have greater capacity than rated
Most lighting systems will shut down to a low power reserve beam when the battery is low, and burn for anouther 1/2hr.
If you combine the above, and quote the run time of the light until the LED shuts completely off, you could porbably get 5 hours on a lab bench at room temp.

Also, unlike halogens, the harder you drive an LED, the less efficient they become. For instance, measurements on a Lux-III shows they delivers 25L/W (lumens/watt) at 1A, 35L/W @ 0.5A, and ~50L/W @ 0.1A. Under-driving an LED by 10% only decreases the lumen by ~6%, and since your eyes are logrithimic sensors, that is not very noticable. On my DIY 3xLux-III light, I have 2 light levels, one driven at 0.95A, and 0.5A. The low beam delivers about 75% the brightness of the high beam, but doubles the run time.

Optics on the other hand, I'd change/experiment with anytime - if I didn't like the original beam pattern that is...

achesalot said:
... Also, the DiNotte is underpowered in my opinion ( although I believe other battery packs are available)....
I'm assuming you mean run time on the battery, at full brightness, the DiNotte draws ~5.5W from the battery. It's probably as bright as a Lux-V can safely go. The nice thing about it is the batteries are not proprietary, you can pick up spares relatively inexpensively and locally. But I agree, there's nothing like a reliable long run time battery.

Cheers,

Tom
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
itsdoable said:
Well, before you take apart the nicely integrated electronics, I'd still put the unit on a meter and see what it is drawing. Specs are often over-inflated (like hp ratings on cars).

Here's some food for thought:

Vf on a Luxeon-III can range from ~3.5V ~ 4V depending on bin.
New NiMH often have greater capacity than rated
Most lighting systems will shut down to a low power reserve beam when the battery is low, and burn for anouther 1/2hr.
If you combine the above, and quote the run time of the light until the LED shuts completely off, you could porbably get 5 hours on a lab bench at room temp.

Also, unlike halogens, the harder you drive an LED, the less efficient they become. For instance, measurements on a Lux-III shows they delivers 25L/W (lumens/watt) at 1A, 35L/W @ 0.5A, and ~50L/W @ 0.1A. Under-driving an LED by 10% only decreases the lumen by ~6%, and since your eyes are logrithimic sensors, that is not very noticable. On my DIY 3xLux-III light, I have 2 light levels, one driven at 0.95A, and 0.5A. The low beam delivers about 75% the brightness of the high beam, but doubles the run time.

Optics on the other hand, I'd change/experiment with anytime - if I didn't like the original beam pattern that is...

I'm assuming you mean run time on the battery, at full brightness, the DiNotte draws ~5.5W from the battery. It's probably as bright as a Lux-V can safely go. The nice thing about it is the batteries are not proprietary, you can pick up spares relatively inexpensively and locally. But I agree, there's nothing like a reliable long run time battery.

Cheers,

Tom
Don't worry....I haven't cracked the arc welder up yet hehe.

They seem plenty bright and I like the beam pattern I think....althought I still haven't ridden with them yet. The optics look propriotry from the out side. combination of reflector and a small lense section in the middle of the glass (about 10mm across). Not played with optics before, what are your thoughts on if they are propriotry or not.

The manual says they start to flash when the juice gets low as a warning. It says to stop where you are when that happens and put them on charge hehe. not so good mid ride lol. But that is onlt likely to happen at a 24H race anyway and the odds of losing both lights with in one lap are less likely with a bit of thought/guess work hehe.

Like you say the dim feature is definitely more useful than over driving them. Better to keep adding LEDs to get power efficient light.

I have a couple of ideas I'd like to explore with LED light controllers and it saves me worrying about building a robust light unit as well (For use out side of bike lighting circles and just for personal interest). And it will benefit me to turn the wick down just a touch to get a full UK summer night on one battery (Planning on doing a solo 24h with my mate in the summer...will be my first so I am keen to make it as easy as possible, I hope it will allow me to see where i am going comfortable when fatigued, and minimise battery changing/charging when I am knackered :) ).

Stu
 

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itsdoable said:
I'm assuming you mean run time on the battery, at full brightness, the DiNotte draws ~5.5W from the battery. It's probably as bright as a Lux-V can safely go. The nice thing about it is the batteries are not proprietary, you can pick up spares relatively inexpensively and locally. But I agree, there's nothing like a reliable long run time battery.Tom
The Dinotte is being driven at 700mA (full current for a Lux V); I disconnected one wire from the LED and placed a digital meter in series to measure the current. On high it showed 700mA and on low 370mA or about 50%. It's definitely brighter and floods better than a Lux III but doesn't have a good distance throw. It might be nice to run a Lux V for short distance flood and a Lux III for longer throw, it's funny but nobody currently makes that combination. Probably would require 2 controllers and a fair amount of battery or maybe run 2 lights the Dinotte 5W and the 3W version when it is released in a couple of months.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Went for a quick spin tonight, nothing majorly technical. Liek I already thought by in door tests the beam is pretty tight (not overly so though) and has a good throw to the light. The spot is brighter than the brightest part of my HID. I did run with it on itrs own, and altough it doen't have much periferal light, because its where your head points its ok, I'd rather not run with it on its own, but I could manage. Its nice having the instant on, good for when a car comes up on a lane, don't worry about killing the bulb like every time I switch the HID on hehe. which I also noticed the reflector has started to go cloudy already...had it 9 months or so, used it quite a few times in the last few months though, probably 3 times a week average. No such worries with LEDs.

The colour of the light is different on the lamps, the double shot actually makes the HID look green compared to its bluer light. its not massively coloured either way, just noticable.

The only fast single track bit was cool though....i could look ahead and across before reaching a kink in the path and antipate it....was more comfortable taking it at near full/day speed.

Can't say I noticed the waight on my hemet either...which is good.

It started to rain so I decided to turn back and save my legs for a ride in wales tomorrow. I'll try an do an updated review in more technical stuff and I'll take my camera.

Stu
 

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Road Rider said:
The Dinotte is being driven at 700mA (full current for a Lux V)... ... It's definitely brighter and floods better than a Lux III but doesn't have a good distance throw.
The difference in "throw" is strictly a function of the optics, not the Lux-V or Lux-III. I have a DIY 2x Lux-V with a 10deg optic and a 30deg optic, and the 10deg is very spot like, with lots of "throw", more than a similar optic'ed Lux-III (... like about 40% ;) ). The DiNotte uses a ~20deg optic - which I find good as a bar mount. I actually like it as a helmet mount too (mostly because of the type of riding we do) but you can always substitute a narrower optic for more "throw".
 

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itsdoable said:
The difference in "throw" is strictly a function of the optics, not the Lux-V or Lux-III. I have a DIY 2x Lux-V with a 10deg optic and a 30deg optic, and the 10deg is very spot like, with lots of "throw", more than a similar optic'ed Lux-III (... like about 40% ;) ). The DiNotte uses a ~20deg optic - which I find good as a bar mount. I actually like it as a helmet mount too (mostly because of the type of riding we do) but you can always substitute a narrower optic for more "throw".
Hmmm... what kind of optics are you using? I've tried the same optics ( Luxeon Collimator LXHL-NX05, 10 degree beam) on both the LuxIII and LuxV and the Lux III always had better throw. The same was true when using the same 18 degree, 20mm IMS reflector. I'm certainly open to trying different optics if I can get better thow from my homebuilt dual Lux V. I've read around on candlepowerforums and most people agree this difference is due to the physically smaller emitting area of the Lux III as compared to the larger Lux V which tends to cause more flood, less throw. Perhaps the optics/reflectors that I've tried were just designed with the Lux III in mind? Anyway, just my experience.
 

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achesalot said:
Hmmm... what kind of optics are you using? I've tried the same optics ( Luxeon Collimator LXHL-NX05, 10 degree beam) on both the LuxIII and LuxV and the Lux III always had better throw. The same was true when using the same 18 degree, 20mm IMS reflector. I'm certainly open to trying different optics if I can get better thow from my homebuilt dual Lux V. I've read around on candlepowerforums and most people agree this difference is due to the physically smaller emitting area of the Lux III as compared to the larger Lux V which tends to cause more flood, less throw. Perhaps the optics/reflectors that I've tried were just designed with the Lux III in mind? Anyway, just my experience.
Interesting. Learn something new every day. I've mostly use the Fraen 25mm optics on the Lux-Vs, and many different ones, mostly 18mm, on the Lux-IIIs (Fraen 25 & 18mm, Carclo, NX, some unknown ones), but I can't say I noticed much difference between the III's and V's with the 25mm fraen optics. But the size of the source will have a bigger effect with a smaller optic. However, the beam pattern and spot changed rapidly with very slight changes of the optic position. I have not used the reflector types. I've mostly been playing with the Lux-III's in the last 2 years, but I recently picked up some Lamina 5W LEDs to experiment with.

I like the Carclo optics best (so far) - a very smooth beam. The NX05's are very spotty with dark rings. The Fraen are not bad, with some very slight dark rings, which may be effects of the source size.

FYI: Fraen 10deg, 30deg optics, in 18mm, 25mm, and tri-version, + eliptical : Carclo 18mm optics in all beams (6~40deg + eliptical). NX05, and several unknown ones.
 

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itsdoable said:
The DiNotte uses a ~20deg optic - which I find good as a bar mount. I actually like it as a helmet mount too (mostly because of the type of riding we do) but you can always substitute a narrower optic for more "throw".
Actually it comes with a 6-degree optic for a 12-degree total but it is still not what I would call a spot. I have tried different optics, L2 makes a 5-degree, but the standard lens seems to work the best. I really haven't found other standard optics that fit the DiNotte light well but the closest are the L2 optics. The experts at DiNotte did tell me that the Lux V would always be more flood than a Lux III because of the construction differences; the Lux V is harder to focus into a narrow beam due to its 4 LED construction.
 

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Road Rider said:
Actually it comes with a 6-degree optic for a 12-degree total but it is still not what I would call a spot. I have tried different optics, L2 makes a 5-degree, but the standard lens seems to work the best. I really haven't found other standard optics that fit the DiNotte light well but the closest are the L2 optics. The experts at DiNotte did tell me that the Lux V would always be more flood than a Lux III because of the construction differences; the Lux V is harder to focus into a narrow beam due to its 4 LED construction.
I have not opened up the DiNotte yet, but my measurements show the FWHM at ~25deg. 6deg is probably for a RED Lux-I or III, the beam varies depending on colour & LED, and is widest for white. I prefer quoting the beam width with the actual LED that is being used, especially as I can't remember all the numbers for each colour...

I find that 20~30deg beam works well on the bars, and I don't mind a narrower beam on the helmet. But I don't like a narrow spot, or a really bright hotspot - I find that just gives you tunnel vision. But that depends alot on the type of trails you ride.

Cheers,

Tom
 

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Road Rider (or Tom, because I know you will just have to pull it apart one day!),

I’m just wondering if you could pull the face plate off and optic out of your DiNotte and give me a measurement for the Inside Diameter and Outside Diameter of the shell, and a depth from the very base of the plate the Luxeon bolts on to, to the edge of the shell for me?

From some of the drawings and photos I’ve seen it may be possible to machine a bit of material out so that you have a bit more choice for optics and reflectors??

Also, is the faceplate sealing up against the optic, or has it got it’s own acrylic lens??

I really don’t need yet another light, but I think I do… It might have to be a DiNotte I think!! :D


Cheers, Dave.
 

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Low_Rider said:
Road Rider (or Tom, because I know you will just have to pull it apart one day!),

I'm just wondering if you could pull the face plate off and optic out of your DiNotte and give me a measurement for the Inside Diameter and Outside Diameter of the shell, and a depth from the very base of the plate the Luxeon bolts on to, to the edge of the shell for me?
....Cheers, Dave.
I was going to wait till I got the elliptical optic to open it up, but...

Optic is 18mm dia by 10mm deep, with a 19.8mm dia lip.

ID if the housing is 18.4mm, with a ledge that is 20.9mm dia and 0.6mm deep. The lip of the optic sits in the ledge, and a translucent gasket sits on top of everything sealing the unit. The Luxeon's black plastic housing sits almost exactly 10mm from the front, it is an emitter (not a star) and is mounted to a pc board, which in turn is mounted to the housing, I didnot remove the Luxeon to check the depth to the base of the housing.



It looks to me like Carclo optics would fit fine, which gives you a choice of 6, 15, 25 and a 25x6 deg optic. Fraen optics are marginally thicker, but the gasket may take care of that.

Cheers,

Tom
 

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You're a champ Tom!!

Seeing I still have a box full of Carclo's, you may have just drained my bank account too!! :D

It’s interesting that DiNotte uses the optic as the final "lens" as such.

I guess it adds weight, but I like lights that have separate lenses to protect the optics from getting scratched and dirty. I guess it's still well sealed though, actually probably more so with a seal directly up against the optic.

Cheers, Dave.
 

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Low_Rider said:
It's interesting that DiNotte uses the optic as the final "lens" as such.

I guess it adds weight, but I like lights that have separate lenses to protect the optics from getting scratched and dirty. I guess it's still well sealed though, actually probably more so with a seal directly up against the optic.
From a manufature's point of view, replacing the optic probably cost the same as replacing a protective lens, plus you have another interface for dirt, and more plastic for absorption. And considering how often I've replaced the protective plastic lens on my old lights in the last 5 years (ie: never...) I think buying a new optic if I accidentally scratch up the front baddly is OK.

Now, to return this Hi-Jacked thread... Stu, how's that Double-Shot working out?
 
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