Mutz setup 275+ vs...
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I went from carbon rimmed 26x4 with floaters, to 50mm carbon rimmed 27.5+ with purgatory 3.0. Honestly I don't think I lost any noticeable bb height, but I lost between 2-3lbs of bike weight.
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Wow, 2-3 lbs on wheels is a huge difference. I'm at the point where I will either sell my Mutz or I need to go with a 27plus wheel set. It's a fun bike with 4" tires but they are overkill for summer especially when the rest of your riding buddies are on 28lb bikes. We ride some really technical, rocky trails so I have an advantage in spots but at the 10-12 mile mark I am wiped and end up pushing it up some of the really steep climbs.
I really don't want to lower the bb since I already smash the crap out of my pedals and cranks but I guess it's a trade off for weight.
I really don't want to lower the bb since I already smash the crap out of my pedals and cranks but I guess it's a trade off for weight.
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What is your bottom bracket height with the 27.5+ vs 26?Finished my 27.5+ summer setup and installed today .![]()
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I didn't measure with the 26 on but based on hub height of the 26 vs 27.5+ I lost maybe 5mm.
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Finished mine today
Seems about right I finished mine today and went for a spin, if there is any lost BB height it's negligible. Rear wheel lost 1# 8oz, Front was 1# 4oz over my 26 setup. I also went with a boost Pike RCT3. It's big fun, and feels like a dragster compared to my 26" setup. I beat one 2 mile climb PR by 30 seconds over my 26" wheels without really trying and on another, Cat 4 climb, I matched my PR set on my 29" carbon Trek Superfly. I was about to sell the Mutz and buy a "Real" regular bike because I rode the Mutz right about 2000 miles over the last 14 months and was looking for a change; but, I initially wanted to build the Mutz like this in the first place so I figured I'd try it and if I didn't like just get a new frame and rear hub. I really like this though and if we head to the beach I still have my 4" stuff :thumbsup:
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150mm Pike?
I agree, the Mutz is a great bike, it just needs a few tweaks. I was also looking at getting a dedicated trail bike, but I'm gonna save some pennies, working on dropping the front end using an internal lower cup, reducing the Wren to 140mm, and I'm sourcing some different cranks/BB to get my stance as narrow as possible.
I rode in the Southwest (Moab, Cortez, Sedona, St George) for a week over Spring Break, and to be honest I don't know that any other bike has better climbing prowess on slickrock, it made me into a super hero! The only thing that I'd change is shorter chainstays; it was some kind of work to manual over and over all day long.
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No 140MM, Initially I was going to get a 140 to match the rear end. Then the Wren cam out in 150 so I thought about getting a 150 Pike. Then I read what you had to say about the 150 Wren feeling slightly choppered out and on some of the stuff I climb regularly I'm having enough trouble keeping the front end down with the Bluto so I opted for the 140 Pike and put on a slightly longer stem and that seemed to do the trick. This setup with the 9-44 out back and a 26 up front seems to be awesome. I'll probably switch to a 28 or 30 up front once I start venturing off my neighborhood loop; but, it has a lot of 16-18% stuff that kills my knees.
I'm in Seattle now (well, Snoqualmie actually) but I'm from the southwest (Prescott AZ, about 30 minutes from Sedona) I've taken the Mutz back a few times to ride the granite "trails" (really just white dots painted on rocks) in 26X4 form. I liked it, though pedal strikes were regular and brutal.
I thought about buying an Alpine+ and having two bikes; but, I just figured one would fall by the wayside and I'd have a $5500 dust collector in the garage at any given moment. I think dropping the coin on the plus set up whilst having the ability to go 4" whenever is the best use of resources. BTW YAY! Cane Creek for offering just the crown race for $10
I'm in Wenatchee. Do you hit Tiger much?
I just got back from a Southwest tour, hit Moab, Cortez, Sedona, and St George. The Mutz was solid, no complaints when clambering around on the rock, and downhill runs and air time were solid.
Yeah, pedal strikes are a pita, the Mutz has a lowish BB and wide Q, so it can make things tight.
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Oddly, I've never been to Tiger, the parking lot is three miles from my house and I've never gone. One, I have to use the car to get there (hate that, because I don't know if you're familiar with how packed every single trail access lot gets over here, but it's nuts, if you're no there by 06:30, the spaces are all gone) and two I was worried about getting lost but I just bought a Garmin 520 so I can load the trail maps on it and go explore.
I like Tokul a lot ( I can ride there and the trip there is awesome) and the trail wizards are adding a bunch of trails ( rumor has it over 200 miles, I don't know if I buy that) on a good size hill just the other side of 90 ( find Snoqualmie point park on the map and the trails are on the hill next to it) that I'll be able to ride to.
I miss the southwest and we still have a place in AZ as suicide prevention for the winters here so I go whenever I can spare a week.
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Let me preface the following by saying that if I think something sucks, I will flat out say it sucks including my decisions about any particular thing. The following are my actual observations.
I've now spent a week and about 80 miles on the plus setup, climbing steep stuff, bouncing around a pretty nice local bike park and blasting around my 12.3 mile neighborhood fitness loop with 1600 feet of climbing and some fun downhill sections that aren't technical but really fast. In no particular order here are the things that come to mind:
1. I knocked 17 minutes off my 12.3 mile loop vs. the 26X4" tires. My Strava segments were slightly faster but the areas between the segments were much faster for a given effort.
2. In comparison the plus tires even when aired down don't feel as comforting as the fat tires in turns and under braking. I figured this out after nearly throwing myself off a hill a few times when the combination higher speed and the tendency for the rear to lock up sooner made all my braking markers irrelevant
3. while the plus tires aren't as "grippy" as the 4" tires which feel like a slug conforming to tree roots rocks etc. They still ride nicer?
4. The Pike is a nice thing, after a couple rides and some fiddling it was sorted and works well
Am I glad I spent close to $2k to change a year old bike that cost me around $5k to build in the first place? I think so. I was speaking with a friend about potentially buying the Alpine+ and selling the Mutz He said "Well, the Mutz is a very good full suspension fat bike that you can set up as a plus bike; whereas, the Alpine+ is just another plus bike and there are many of those with more sophisticated suspensions and lighter weights. The Mutz can basically do what the alpine+ can but the Alpine+ can't necessarily do what the Mutz can with the 4" tires"
Although I was annoyed that he kinda bagged on Foes, he did have a point.
Of course whether you should do it or not is your deal, I am allowed to have one bike and I really like the Mutz, Ive been riding it on average 60 miles a week since the day I finished it.
I've now spent a week and about 80 miles on the plus setup, climbing steep stuff, bouncing around a pretty nice local bike park and blasting around my 12.3 mile neighborhood fitness loop with 1600 feet of climbing and some fun downhill sections that aren't technical but really fast. In no particular order here are the things that come to mind:
1. I knocked 17 minutes off my 12.3 mile loop vs. the 26X4" tires. My Strava segments were slightly faster but the areas between the segments were much faster for a given effort.
2. In comparison the plus tires even when aired down don't feel as comforting as the fat tires in turns and under braking. I figured this out after nearly throwing myself off a hill a few times when the combination higher speed and the tendency for the rear to lock up sooner made all my braking markers irrelevant
3. while the plus tires aren't as "grippy" as the 4" tires which feel like a slug conforming to tree roots rocks etc. They still ride nicer?
4. The Pike is a nice thing, after a couple rides and some fiddling it was sorted and works well
Am I glad I spent close to $2k to change a year old bike that cost me around $5k to build in the first place? I think so. I was speaking with a friend about potentially buying the Alpine+ and selling the Mutz He said "Well, the Mutz is a very good full suspension fat bike that you can set up as a plus bike; whereas, the Alpine+ is just another plus bike and there are many of those with more sophisticated suspensions and lighter weights. The Mutz can basically do what the alpine+ can but the Alpine+ can't necessarily do what the Mutz can with the 4" tires"
Although I was annoyed that he kinda bagged on Foes, he did have a point.
Of course whether you should do it or not is your deal, I am allowed to have one bike and I really like the Mutz, Ive been riding it on average 60 miles a week since the day I finished it.
The whole set or just 29+ up front? This is what i would like to try.Next up, mixed wheelsets
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Man, Tiger was a BLAST! Just did it a few weeks ago when I was down there on vacation...
Just up front, that's how I'm riding now, works great!
Do you have a build in mind? I am happy with my Nextie JFs so that is what I will probably get in 29. I have a new Hope 4 hub although I would rather use Onyx.
It depends on the tires, mine is 5mm lower with 27 + Trail Boss than 26 x 4 JJs. Less than a 1/4" = non issue.
Try a 29+ on the front and it gets even better
To be realistic, the pedal strike issue with the Mytz is more related to wide bb/cranks than low bb. Fat bikes are fat.
Sag can play a big part in bb drop, might want to look at your pressure and adjust it higher on tech terrain, lower on flow.
A long travel fork will.also bring things up...in more ways than one
I like Scrapers, they're durable and not crazy expensive...like Onyx hubs.
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Just love the Foes With 27.5 and 3" Nobby Nic. So quick handling, and what a grip of these tires. I am running Procore from Schwalbe also to be able to go lower Down the air pressure. Love the Onyx hubs With nextie rims.
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