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I really have to wonder what else is in the well water in Vermont. The constant pedantic whining that goes on on this forum is truly amazing.
It's mostly just one dude who thinks he's a libertarian and likes to attack trail organizations for reasons of autonomy and blah, blah, nonsense. I've made it a springtime hobby to argue with him because he's wrong a lot and I'm stuck in front of the computer a lot. :).

But trails are open and the weather's great, so I'm going into semi-retirement as Chief Dave Annoyer.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
I really have to wonder what else is in the well water in Vermont. The constant pedantic whining that goes on on this forum is truly amazing.

Our trail system on the sane-side-of-the-river never closes, why because they are TRAILS for God's sake, not Broadway performances. OK, maybe we build or trails better than you because they are always rideable, and they don't get damaged because someone rode through a mud puddle.
Of any group that I know of, mountain bikers should exercise the least amount of gatekeeping, since we are more maligned than about any other public land user.
Sorry, I just don't think this is truthful While I do know some types of trail can be ridden in all conditions without damage, plenty of NH has Mud Season and well organized local clubs that would absolutely object to you riding in certain conditions.

Trail conditions are variable and your personal impact changes with them. In addition, if you ride off the edge of the trail over living vegetation and displace the top layer of organic material to avoid a small root, you just expose more of the root, and this activity continues, the user-group's impact increases exponentially. As a member of a paid crew working on state land, this one type of trail creep was what we mitigated time and time again. Perry Hill it's basically all we did....that and cut out about 5,000 roots causing folks to go off trail.

In Vt, it's literally what the clubs spend money on. We would get criticized for "Sanitizing" the trail. My response is, "stop riding around trail features and we won't have to remove them. Restoring a tight trail corridor is, and should be IMO, the priority. The alternative of an ever-widening jumble of roots as wide as a 4 wheeler or jeep road for the sake of "Tech" is a fail, and at that point you might as well let dirt bikes in because you essentially have all the damage of a motorized trail system.
 

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Why do I need to go to the VT forum to be entertained by name calling, insults, and threats of people pissing in someone else's maple syrup? What's up with all of you Massholes lurking here on this forum? Let's go back to the Massachusetts forum and see how tough you are, you filthy, corporation loving, Bud Light swilling, SUV driving, weird talking, fat assed carbon fiber weekend warrriors. You guys suck! Meet me there today after school if you're not chicken!
 

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Hey don't knock the massholes or the rhoholes!
Since this virus pandemic, they have been hiding out in their second or third homes up here. Since they are so bored by all of our trees and no malls, they have been doing valuable cleanup work on our trails over here.
Our trails are in the best condition ever, for this time of year, and I give most of the credit to the southern-holes hiding up here amongst us. ;-)
 

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Oh and in response to "I don't think this is truthful" in reference to never closing our trails. We have an organized NEMBA chapter, and no we have never closed our trails, ever. And that's going all the way back to 1985.

We aren't incessant gatekeepers on the sane-side-of-the-river. Live free and ride!
 

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Oh and in response to "I don't think this is truthful" in reference to never closing our trails. We have an organized NEMBA chapter, and no we have never closed our trails, ever. And that's going all the way back to 1985.

We aren't incessant gatekeepers on the sane-side-of-the-river. Live free and ride!
Green Woodlands is currently closed, and is usually closed in the early spring.
The Boston Lot trails close pretty regularly based on conditions.
 

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So just to be clear by your logic the the trail builder makes the correct choices on where the trail should go 100 percent of the time, and trail should never have any room for "correction"?? Basically is saying the trail builders are infalliable and they could never make any mistake, and any mistake they did make need to be reinforced and kept to make sure everyone else suffer from their **** mistakes.



Really.
 

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I thought Trail Creep referred to those guys that park at Trail Heads in older nondescript Toyotas and pretend to be reading newspapers while watching people enter and leave trail.
 

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So just to be clear by your logic the the trail builder makes the correct choices on where the trail should go 100 percent of the time, and trail should never have any room for "correction"?? Basically is saying the trail builders are infalliable and they could never make any mistake, and any mistake they did make need to be reinforced and kept to make sure everyone else suffer from their **** mistakes.



Really.
OK, but surely you frown on the corner cutters straight-lining curves
with dreams of Strava KOM's dancing in their heads, no?

I've built a lot of trails, and sometimes, I admit, the 'avoidance' line reveals itself as the better line (and I do the work to reset my own trail accordingly)---but, that represents a very, very small fraction of trail deviance, and poor etiquette, selfishness, and pride are more often the root cause.

You're right to point out that 'always' and 'in every circumstance' is an untenable position (no matter what we're talking about). But the significant plurality off trail creep, as I'm sure you've noticed, stems from poor form and bad attitudes.

And, no matter the original line choice, braids, go-arounds, and blow-outs are bad for trail advocacy...period.
 

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Even as strava user, I think Strava cut to save time are bullshit. I typically shut them down. If I KOM the actual line and now you beat me by going straight and cutting off 200 yards of trail does it really count?


but with that said trail IMO a trail should be ridden for a couple years (depending on the traffic/situation) before any attempt to stop trail creep are stopped.

My favorite trail system is literally just ridden rake and ride after someone clear corridor . Its has more "Flow" than anywhere I ever ride, mostly because someone didnt try to force the riders into the path they wanted.

B-man where are you coming to Vermont man?
 
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