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MaLóŒ¢*size=
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
hi nino,

could you give a link or tell us something about that rear der. you are using. I believe the cage is too small, even for 2x9/10. Of course you will argue that, you will say the cage is long enough because bla bla bla...

but apart from that, can you give us your impressions on it, weightmodifications, etc... Did you also use a SRP rear der. bolt kit or a ti spring? what about the cogs? what about the cage plates?

thanks and best regards.
 

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MaLoL said:
hi nino,

could you give a link or tell us something about that rear der. you are using. I believe the cage is too small, even for 2x9/10. Of course you will argue that, you will say the cage is long enough because bla bla bla...

but apart from that, can you give us your impressions on it, weightmodifications, etc... Did you also use a SRP rear der. bolt kit or a ti spring? what about the cogs? what about the cage plates?

thanks and best regards.
You are attacking me and asking at the same time...i'll give you the details but please stay away from writing any BS-thanks

The Dura Ace derailleurs ALL work on a MTB. DA has the same quality as XTR so durability is on the same level.I personally find them even better than XTR.I have no slack in the cages and never catch any bushes/branches as the short cage is more tucked in when riding in trails.Much less exposed than the long caged MTB derailleurs.

Dura Ace derailleurs have a short cage and usually are supposed to work only up to 27t cogs on the cassette but they do great up to 32t cassette by replacing the standard 11t pulleys (at least the upper pulley) with smaller diameter 10t pulleys.This gives just enough room to accept a 32t cog. I have never found any performance difference when going from 10t to 11t pulleys and viceversa. 10t are lighter and in this case allow for a 32t cassette.

The short cage limits the overall capacity...means it can't take as much slack out of a chain as a longer caged derailleur. So if you run regular triple rings setups like 44/32/22 it could happen the chain hangs loose in the full crossed gear 22-11 and 22-12. But those gears aren't usually used anyway and as soon as you have the slightest pressure on the cranks the chain gets streched. By using a 42 ring up front this allowed me already to run a shorter chain and that problem was pretty much non-existent.These days with a lot of guys running double chainrings this isn't a problem at all. The regular ring sizes for 2x9/2x10 are around 40/26 or 42/27 and that's where the DA works great.There is less chain tensioning needed so definitely not the slightest problem for the DA.

The newest Dura Ace 7900 rear derailleur weighs 165g standard

Tuning:
I replaced the standard 11t pulleys with some lightweight 10t pulleys (9.9g/pair)
Aluminium pulley bolts
Aluminium cable clamping bolt
Aluminium B-tension bolt
Aluminium pivot bolt (hollow bolt from Torontocycles.com)
I also removed the derailleur cable adjuster completely since we all have such adjusters on the shifters at the handlebar so the one at the derailleur isn't needed anyway.I removed it and drilled a 5mm bore which now accepts the housing of the cable.

----> These modifications result in 143g weight.

On the picture below you also see a Ti-return spring but i did never install that one.It wouldn't fit and savings would be less than 1g anyway. I also tried to mount some carbon cages i had left from previous DA 7800 derailleurs but again they wouldn't fit and the savings were in the 1g range...The 7900 model already has carbon cages so no further mods are needed unless you want to break records...for me the DAs are the best derailleurs and i use them on both my MTBs. Both tuned exactly as explained above.

There's guys going crazy on tuning but they forget that certain parts need a certain durability...anyway - below is a picture of a german weight-weenie that went a bit further on that derailleur: 129g
 

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↓big watter↓
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AFC pulleyes do not last long when you ride also in muddy conditions.
at mine the bearings of the lower blockade after some weeks cause they where fully rusted.
such pulleyes with ceramic-hybrid bearings could be amazing.
 

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MaLóŒ¢*size=
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I attack you because you sell crap with no warranty, as everybody with some years in this forum knows perfectly. Don´t try to get me wrong.

Very interesting. Seems to me that to go below 8kg in a hardtail you have to start doing tuning that compromises a lot performance, like this rear der or like carbon saddles; smaller pulleys means more chain drag, smaller cage, less durability (xtr is designed for dust, bumps and dirt), etc...

Thank you nino for the explanation. Now I know better where the limit is. Anyway looks very nice the full black, better than xtr or sram.

I like 11-27 + 22-32-44. (2x9 is too much compromising as you perfectly know, but good for racing with mechanics who will swap rings depending on the circuit, 38-11 or 40-11 is just way too slow). So maybe in my case, if I can change the dura-ace cage with an XTR middle cage (not the road cage, not the standar mtb long cage, just the one in between) it will work. What do you think about this? would it be possible to do this?

I still think it´s much better using xtr shadow and avoid compromise (there is still some people who actually ride their bikes), but I want to know even better where the limit is. Nino is always over the limit, that´s why he has a rideable bike (he calls it winter bike, ha ha ha ha!!!!)
 

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MaLoL said:
...he calls it winter bike, ha ha ha
Well - as mentioned above my Winter-Bike (Scott Scale 10) again uses the exact same DA derailleur:D

Welcome back though-i already thought you would put a serious question but it sems you are still the same guy you have always been. And you still missed the "revolution" of the biking industry going 2x9/2x10.
 

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morrisgarages said:
Why are you even helping him nino?? But thanks for your very helpful answer. What shifters are you using with your DA rd?
Well - for one second i thought he might really have a serious question...anyway- i try to post in a way others can take profit as well.I think it's pretty obvious what's needed to make it work and it's pretty obvious that some guys just need to play the clown.

I use 9s Grip-shifters.

The DA is just like any other Shimano derailleur---->you can put whatever Shimano compatible shifter wheter it be 5s or 10s. Shimano derailleurs will do what the shifter above says.
 

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MaLoL said:
hi nino,

could you give a link or tell us something about that rear der. you are using. I believe the cage is too small, even for 2x9/10. Of course you will argue that, you will say the cage is long enough because bla bla bla...

but apart from that, can you give us your impressions on it, weightmodifications, etc... Did you also use a SRP rear der. bolt kit or a ti spring? what about the cogs? what about the cage plates?

thanks and best regards.
Are you runing 1x10 now k--s ?
 

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MaLóŒ¢*size=
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I don´t understand waht do you thin it´s not serious in this question but still...

fortunately, I still have 44-11 to go fast, 38-11 0r 40-11 must be for losers or racers with mechanics in slow circuits. I wouldn't call that a revolution.

Thanks and bye. Good luck fooling the newbies.

PD: for the yankees: your dear armstrong ate crap again this year, ehh??
 

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MaLoL said:
I don´t understand waht do you thin it´s not serious in this question but still...

fortunately, I still have 44-11 to go fast, 38-11 0r 40-11 must be for losers or racers with mechanics in slow circuits. I wouldn't call that a revolution.

Thanks and bye. Good luck fooling the newbies.

PD: for the yankees: your dear armstrong ate crap again this year, ehh??
I sse it the other way round - If you need 22-32 or 34 you must have weak legs and slow legs as well.I can spin quite fast and i'm sure my top-speed isn't that much less than yours. All the pro-riders in the worldcup using such gearing can't be all that weak, can't they.

See - there's always 2 points of view:D

But beeing a clown still must be fun. Enjoy it-we do as well.
 

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I took a M950 medium cage/mech arm & installed it on a 9speed dura ace body. when you remove the mech arm from the M950 you need to use the spacer off the dura-ace mech arm.
with the medium cage installed I can still use the bigger jockey wheels with a 34T rear cassette.

Its not exceptionally light weight at 189g, but if anything the pivot tolerances are even better than XTR & the springs are even stronger.
I used alu main mech bolt & a ti cable pinch bolt, but only standard jockey wheels as I log a lot of miles, often in filthy conditions & dont want to be regularly replacing expensive lightweight jockey wheels.
 

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MaLóŒ¢*size=
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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
Dear Nino, as everybody knows, THE ONLY CLOWN HERE IS YOU.

You are the one who change his "thoughts" depending on what is being produced in taiwan that you can sell. Crap cheap parts that you will sell to rookies, like those atik cranks, those cheap twister shifters, alu casettes, and no brand parts, WITH NO WARRANTY, NO RETURNS, AND WITHOUT PAYING TAXES!!!

You are not a swiss, you are more like a southern italian!!!!

Before you praised road casettes with 3 rings in the front and a 20t granny, and you said 2x9 was crap. Now you changed your mind completely, 11-34 is the best and ten speeds rocks (just because you sell it). When you had no transmission parts to sell, 3x9 was the best. Come on!!! Before shimano trigger shifters were the best (and they are) but now that you sell crappy twister shifters from taiwan, they rock... You change with the wind dear Nino.

WHO IS THE CLOWN HERE? GROW UP AND GET A PROPER JOB, YOU LOSER.
 

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MaLoL said:
Dear Nino, as everybody knows, THE ONLY CLOWN HERE IS YOU.

You are the one who change his "thoughts" depending on what is being produced in taiwan that you can sell. Crap cheap parts that you will sell to rookies, like those atik cranks, those cheap twister shifters, alu casettes, and no brand parts, WITH NO WARRANTY, NO RETURNS, AND WITHOUT PAYING TAXES!!!

You are not a swiss, you are more like a southern italian!!!!

Before you praise road casettes with 3 rings in the front and a 20t granny, and you said 2x9 is crap. Now you change your mind completely, 11-34 is the best and ten speeds rocks (just because you sell it). When you had no transmission parts to sell, 3x9 was the best. Come on!!! Before trigger shimano shifter were the best (and they are) but now that you sell crappy twister shifters from taiwan, they rock... You change with the wind dear Nino.

WHO IS THE CLOWN HERE? GROW UP AND GET A PROPER JOB, YOU LOSER.
It seems i hit the mark with your weak legs;)

Anyway - There's too much wrong statements in here to even continue at this level.
 

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Well his grammar sucks but he's right, you do change your tune about what works and what doesn't depending on what products you have in inventory that you need to obviously protect sales of. Can't very well tell people that they shouldn't be buying something you have a few thousand dollars worth of sitting around unsold.
 

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MaLóŒ¢*size=
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
scant said:
I took a M950 medium cage/mech arm & installed it on a 9speed dura ace body. when you remove the mech arm from the M950 you need to use the spacer off the dura-ace mech arm.
with the medium cage installed I can still use the bigger jockey wheels with a 34T rear cassette.

Its not exceptionally light weight at 189g, but if anything the pivot tolerances are even better than XTR & the springs are even stronger.
I used alu main mech bolt & a ti cable pinch bolt, but only standard jockey wheels as I log a lot of miles, often in filthy conditions & dont want to be regularly replacing expensive lightweight jockey wheels.
This sounds like a great tuning. Maybe a Dura-Ace rear der. with an XTR middle cage could be the perfect setup. I have a XTR M960 with middle cage, tuned with SRP Alu main pivot bolt + 2 alu. bolts for the jockey wheels + 1 alu.bolt for the cable + carbon fiber plate for the inner cage. I also like shimano jockey wheels cause they last much longer than the alu ones.

Maybe a tuning like the one of nino but with a middle cage and standard jockey wheels could be the best ever. Is there available a Shimano middle cage made out of carbon? I know XTR Shadow rear der. has a carbon cage, at least the long cage, but I don´t know if the middle cage is available and if that middle cage is made out of carbon fiber too.
 

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Malol, such anger in a thread which you started... And I thought cycling was a friendly sport. Very disappointing to read - I'm surprised the mods allow it.
 
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