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29 inches and Pissed Off!
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Hello all,
I will be moving to Las Vegas for work about 6 or more months, depending on how long my company wants me there or I can handle it. At the end of January.

I would appreciate any suggestions of where to live. I have been checking out Craigs List. I would like to keep it at around $1000 a month. 1 or 2 bedroom. My wife may stay at home, she has her own business, or she may go, depending on how lonely I get;) .

What am I in for? I live in Aptos, Ca. I am used to the beach, ocean and redwoods. I ride out of my door into a state park, or along the coast looking at the ocean. I ride 4 to 5 times a week, 2 or 3 on the MTB single speed and 1 or 2 on the road bike.

Thanks
Dan C.
 

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Captain Kana said:
Hello all,
I will be moving to Las Vegas for work about 6 or more months, depending on how long my company wants me there or I can handle it. At the end of January.

I would appreciate any suggestions of where to live. I have been checking out Craigs List. I would like to keep it at around $1000 a month. 1 or 2 bedroom. My wife may stay at home, she has her own business, or she may go, depending on how lonely I get;) .

What am I in for? I live in Aptos, Ca. I am used to the beach, ocean and redwoods. I ride out of my door into a state park, or along the coast looking at the ocean. I ride 4 to 5 times a week, 2 or 3 on the MTB single speed and 1 or 2 on the road bike.

Thanks
Dan C.
Dan it's hell here in Vegas, pure hell. Dont leave Aptos...

However, if you are coming anyway here is what to expect.

1. The locals are somewhat disrespectful of each other and their community as a whole. There seems to be alot who like to drive drunk, drive extremely fast, aggressive, and rude, more people than other places I've lived like to toss/ dump trash everywhere they please as well, I dont understand why it is tolerated here.

2. The population here is one of the dumbest in the nation. Seriously, if you have a degree expect to be outcasted by the indiginous population. Half of the students here cannot even graduate from high school. However, do not expect this to lower the level of vanity any, in this regard Las Vegas rates almost as high as southern California. Not that everyone here is dumb, that would be a rediculous statement, it's just that there is not an emphasis on higher education in this local.

3. It is insanely hot from about mid May to October, if you want to ride you are pretty much forced to do so at dawn or at night. In the winter it is generally pretty darned cold and windy alot of the time but at least you can ride in it. Night rides are pretty fun if you have the needed lighting equipment to do so.

That being said, there is actually some postives to Las Vegas.

There are some nice riding areas in the Cottonwood/ Blue Diamond area and Bootleg Canyon area.

It generally does not snow here, nor does it rain all that much.

You will never have any trouble locating a bar.

Housing is dirt cheap right now and very plentiful.

You are fairly centrally located to better riding areas like Moab, St. George, Big Bear, etc. It is a good starting point for extended weekend get away adventures.

Personally I dont hate living here, but I am always open to the possibilty of leaving and going elsewhere. Of course I would never move any further westward. If I were you, depending on where your work will be, I would look for housing on the west side of the valley or the Summerlin area. This is a nicer, higher socio-economic part of town and closer to Redrock Canyon and the Cottonwood trails. The east side I would recommend the Green Valley area, this is closer to Bootleg Canyon. The southwest is OK too and may be slightly less expensive. For six months it might be a nice adventure, but I would'nt make any long term plans if I were you unless you just love the "casino culture".
 

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Maaaaan
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Hi Dan.

I used to live in Pleasanton and now reside in Henderson NV.

The drivers are bad, but not as bad as in the Bay Area.

The people are insane and you have to watch out who you make friends with. (Lots of scammers.)

If you like technical riding and road riding, I'd move to the Southeast side of the Vegas valley near Wagon Wheel and US 95/93 here in Henderson. There is a nice loop called the River Mountains loop that you can ride with your road bike, and you can ride from here to Bootleg Canyon in Boulder City.
There is also rural highway access starting here at Wagon Wheel. You can do a century from here on nothing but rural roads.

There are all kinds of properties available in Old Vegas Ranch and it's close to the riding.
The crime rate is also under control around here.
In fact, the crime rate in Henderson is the lowest in the valley.

The summers are hot but ridable. The winters are cold but dry, unlike the Bay Area.

Eric.
 

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mojavehanna said:
Dan it's hell here in Vegas, pure hell. Dont leave Aptos...

However, if you are coming anyway here is what to expect.

1. The locals are somewhat disrespectful of each other and their community as a whole. There seems to be alot who like to drive drunk, drive extremely fast, aggressive, and rude, more people than other places I've lived like to toss/ dump trash everywhere they please as well, I dont understand why it is tolerated here.

2. The population here is one of the dumbest in the nation. Seriously, if you have a degree expect to be outcasted by the indiginous population. Half of the students here cannot even graduate from high school. However, do not expect this to lower the level of vanity any, in this regard Las Vegas rates almost as high as southern California. Not that everyone here is dumb, that would be a rediculous statement, it's just that there is not an emphasis on higher education in this local.

3. It is insanely hot from about mid May to October, if you want to ride you are pretty much forced to do so at dawn or at night. In the winter it is generally pretty darned cold and windy alot of the time but at least you can ride in it. Night rides are pretty fun if you have the needed lighting equipment to do so.

That being said, there is actually some postives to Las Vegas.

There are some nice riding areas in the Cottonwood/ Blue Diamond area and Bootleg Canyon area.

It generally does not snow here, nor does it rain all that much.

You will never have any trouble locating a bar.

Housing is dirt cheap right now and very plentiful.

You are fairly centrally located to better riding areas like Moab, St. George, Big Bear, etc. It is a good starting point for extended weekend get away adventures.

Personally I dont hate living here, but I am always open to the possibilty of leaving and going elsewhere. Of course I would never move any further westward. If I were you, depending on where your work will be, I would look for housing on the west side of the valley or the Summerlin area. This is a nicer, higher socio-economic part of town and closer to Redrock Canyon and the Cottonwood trails. The east side I would recommend the Green Valley area, this is closer to Bootleg Canyon. The southwest is OK too and may be slightly less expensive. For six months it might be a nice adventure, but I would'nt make any long term plans if I were you unless you just love the "casino culture".
wow
 

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East-siders may disagree, but I'd recommend finding accommodations on the West side, ie in the Summerlin area near or west of the 215 (near Charleston Blvd). There is a bunch of new housing out that way. From this location, you can ride out your front door for road rides to the Red Rock Loop, out to 160 and Mt. Potosi, and event to Mt. Charleston. Regular roadie groups meet at a Starbucks on W. Charleston. Also, only a five to ten minutes by car to the Cowboy Trails and 15 minutes to Blue Diamond/Cottonwood for trail riding. Right next to freeway that takes you to Mt. Charleston for afternoon riding on hot days. The valley slopes upward from east to west and the west side is significantly cooler in the summer, by five to 15 degrees.

Of course, it may depend on where you are working as the commute may be an issue.

If you want to ride out your door for mtnbiking and road riding, you may want to check out possible rentals in the town of Blue Diamond. It's about a 15-30 min commute to town, depending upon the location. BD is the hub of LV outdoor activities, populated by a bunch of climbers, cyclists, etc. as well as a variety of eccentrics.

I hope this is helpful.
 

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mojavehanna said:
Which part of my statement are you in dispute with, I can back most of it up with actual facts?

Like I said, I dont hate living in Las Vegas. However, like most any place it is far from perfect.
i hope you dont judge all the riding folk that you run into as well..:confused:
 

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THE RICK said:
i hope you dont judge all the riding folk that you run into as well..:confused:
I am not judging or being judgemental. I was offering my opinion and quoting factual statistics regarding Las Vegas. The statement about Las Vegas being one of the dumbest areas in the country is a fact, do some research if you dont believe me. Check out the graduation rates in this community and see what they are. Look into the starting salary of a beginning teacher in Clark Co. and gasp at what they are paid in relation to the cost of living here. People not valueing their community, this is a very transient town, very few view Las Vegas as their real "home". The area attracts a "party" crowd that tend to not care as much about family and community values. Ever wonder why many employers re-locate employees from other states to here to fill specific skilled postitions? That is actually why I am residing here now. Bottom line, Las Vegas still has a strong element of being a "good ol boys" town, long time residents stick together, outsiders remain outsiders.

Drive down any road that borders a housing development and the desert and look at all the trash that is illegally dumped. The area behind my housing track, in a nicer neighborhood, looks like a landfill from all of the dumped construction debris, TV's, waterheaters, etc. The actual dump is only about ten miles down the road, and the garbagemen will pick up virtually anything you put out, I dont get it. This occures all over the valley and surrounding area as well. Look out your window the next time you are stopped at a light and take note of the hundreds of cigerette butts that are littered at every single one, no matter where you are. It is disgusting. I witness people every week throwing bottles (usually beer) out of the car windows as they drive down the road, also lots of other trash such as fast food containers and coffee cups. It does'nt matter what neighborhood or community you are in, take a walk down the sidewalks and try not to step in all the dog poop that the valley's dog owners refuse to clean up when their dog takes a dump on the path/ sidewalk. These are just some of the examples I can cite to reenforce my position. I have lived in many areas, So. Cal. mostly, and some Central Coast as well as the Portland, OR. area for a short time, this is not a normal occurance in the other areas I have lived in.

As for the rest, well that is my personal opinion, which I am still entitled to. However, I hear these same criticisms from many others that have lived here as well so I know it's not just me being negative. I see how my statement can be construed the wrong way, especially on the internet, but whatever... it is what it is. The advice I gave is my perspective, take it or leave it. And I am actually quite friendly to people that I meet, especially on the local trails. I do my best to support the community in my own ways, but I am certainly not going to turn a blind eye in regard to the problems here when asked. I also listed some positive aspects and tried to offer some useful advice, so I think before you guys light the torches and grab the pitchforks that you give a little thought to what I am actually saying. If that is'nt good enough... ;)

Is this the worst place in the world? No, but it is not without it's share of problems is all. It all depends on what your leaving and what your looking for I suppose.

Get this thread back on topic now, the man is looking for some advice.
 

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Ericmopar said:
Hi Dan.

I used to live in Pleasanton and now reside in Henderson NV.

The drivers are bad, but not as bad as in the Bay Area.

The people are insane and you have to watch out who you make friends with. (Lots of scammers.)

If you like technical riding and road riding, I'd move to the Southeast side of the Vegas valley near Wagon Wheel and US 95/93 here in Henderson. There is a nice loop called the River Mountains loop that you can ride with your road bike, and you can ride from here to Bootleg Canyon in Boulder City.
There is also rural highway access starting here at Wagon Wheel. You can do a century from here on nothing but rural roads.

There are all kinds of properties available in Old Vegas Ranch and it's close to the riding.
The crime rate is also under control around here.
In fact, the crime rate in Henderson is the lowest in the valley.

The summers are hot but ridable. The winters are cold but dry, unlike the Bay Area.

Eric.
I agree with you, I have always liked this area. However, if you work near the Strip or anywhere but the Henderson/ east side of town this makes for a painful commute.

Although the traffic in Vegas is considerably less than urban Cal., there are definately traffic concerns and issues here. Knowing where he will be employed would help alot in offering any advice on where to live and why.

This is actually a really crazy area. Geographically there is alot squeezed into a relatively small area. Contained within there are amazingly nice communities and crime ridden slums and everything in between.
 

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mojavehanna said:
I am not judging or being judgemental. I was offering my opinion and quoting factual statistics regarding Las Vegas. The statement about Las Vegas being one of the dumbest areas in the country is a fact, do some research if you dont believe me. Check out the graduation rates in this community and see what they are. Look into the starting salary of a beginning teacher in Clark Co. and gasp at what they are paid in relation to the cost of living here. People not valueing their community, this is a very transient town, very few view Las Vegas as their real "home". The area attracts a "party" crowd that tend to not care as much about family and community values. Ever wonder why many employers re-locate employees from other states to here to fill specific skilled postitions? That is actually why I am residing here now. Bottom line, Las Vegas still has a strong element of being a "good ol boys" town, long time residents stick together, outsiders remain outsiders.

Drive down any road that borders a housing development and the desert and look at all the trash that is illegally dumped. The area behind my housing track, in a nicer neighborhood, looks like a landfill from all of the dumped construction debris, TV's, waterheaters, etc. The actual dump is only about ten miles down the road, and the garbagemen will pick up virtually anything you put out, I dont get it. This occures all over the valley and surrounding area as well. Look out your window the next time you are stopped at a light and take note of the hundreds of cigerette butts that are littered at every single one, no matter where you are. It is disgusting. I witness people every week throwing bottles (usually beer) out of the car windows as they drive down the road, also lots of other trash such as fast food containers and coffee cups. It does'nt matter what neighborhood or community you are in, take a walk down the sidewalks and try not to step in all the dog poop that the valley's dog owners refuse to clean up when their dog takes a dump on the path/ sidewalk. These are just some of the examples I can cite to reenforce my position. I have lived in many areas, So. Cal. mostly, and some Central Coast as well as the Portland, OR. area for a short time, this is not a normal occurance in the other areas I have lived in.

As for the rest, well that is my personal opinion, which I am still entitled to. However, I hear these same criticisms from many others that have lived here as well so I know it's not just me being negative. I see how my statement can be construed the wrong way, especially on the internet, but whatever... it is what it is. The advice I gave is my perspective, take it or leave it. And I am actually quite friendly to people that I meet, especially on the local trails. I do my best to support the community in my own ways, but I am certainly not going to turn a blind eye in regard to the problems here when asked. I also listed some positive aspects and tried to offer some useful advice, so I think before you guys light the torches and grab the pitchforks that you give a little thought to what I am actually saying. If that is'nt good enough... ;)

Is this the worst place in the world? No, but it is not without it's share of problems is all. It all depends on what your leaving and what your looking for I suppose.

Get this thread back on topic now, the man is looking for some advice.
wow
 

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mohavehanna:

I have degrees from, arguably, the two top universities in the world. In my opinion, based upon my many years of living in academia and many more years dealing with highly educated people on a professional level, using education to judge intelligence is, at best, naive and, most likely, just plain condescending.

There are lots of really smart people here and elsewhere...some educated, some not.

Listen to these "uneducated" Las Vegans, as their stories might amaze you. You might even learn something from them...at the very least, some humility.
 

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wingforward said:
mohavehanna:

I have degrees from, arguably, the two top universities in the world. In my opinion, based upon my many years of living in academia and many more years dealing with highly educated people on a professional level, using education to judge intelligence is, at best, naive and, most likely, just plain condescending.

There are lots of really smart people here and elsewhere...some educated, some not.

Listen to these "uneducated" Las Vegans, as their stories might amaze you. You might even learn something from them...at the very least, some humility.
You are missing my point, I am not saying I am smarter than anyone. Here is a source for that statement...

http://channels.isp.netscape.com/whatsnew/package.jsp?name=fte/smartstates/smartstates&floc=wn-nx

This has been common knowledge for years, Im surprised that more hav'nt heard. The rankings are not based on #'s of people with degrees, but rather on many other social factors such as drop-out rates, low teacher pay, student / teacher relationships, etc. Las Vegas is very, very poor in these areas unfortunately and that is plain to see if one chooses to look. Nevada ranked 49th out of 50 for 2006/7. That is pretty "dumb" in my opinion.

Have a nice day.
 

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I don't want to turn this into a battle but I agree with a lot of what mojave has to say.

The driving here is probably the worst I've personally experienced anywhere in the world. In terms of speeding, red light running and just off the wall craziness.

There is a lack of community. There are people in my neighborhood who won't even wave to me and my wife who walk our dog by their house every day. Let alone a block party, clean up the neighborhood day, festival, etc....

The city is dirty. Empty lots are dumping grounds, the owners only clean them when the city threatens fines or they're actually going to build something.

All of this isn't really the thing that bothers me about Vegas. Its the people. Selfish, vain, ignorant, shallow. I've had a hard time here finding people to talk to and hang out with. Its made me kind of withdrawn when I meet new people which isn't like me. This doesn't mean everyone in the city sucks, but the atitude is pretty pervasive.

I'm not saying its all bad. I can ride my bike and my motorcycle all year and that helps keep me sane. Its not hard to be a superstar in my field since there is a gaping talent void. Vegas is close to a lot of cool things so road trips are plentiful.

Still, I'm looking forward to the day (before the year is out) that I see this city in my rearview.
 

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Several points made are, indeed, accurate. Unfortunately, Nevada is run by the casino industry, propping up local and state politicians with promises of cushy casino executive jobs after demonstrating support of gaming revenue during their political careers. 5.9% tax on "reported" casino earnings is way too low and a 1% increase could significantly impact Nevada's educational system.

I just really hate to hear people called stupid because of lack of education. Some of us had great opportunities, which translated into good educations. Some very smart people don't have that opportunity and miss out on the education. They are still smart (some of the uneducated may be giving you accurate directions on some obscure trail someday).

Despite all the negativity, Southern Nevada's educational system sent 6 kids to Harvard and 7 to Stanford this past year. Some of our kids, parents and teachers are doing a pretty good job!

Las Vegas is a young community presently forming roots. We may see a change over the next two decades as the town matures. The current economic downturn may accelerate the process. Just my opinion.
 

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wingforward said:
Several points made are, indeed, accurate. Unfortunately, Nevada is run by the casino industry, propping up local and state politicians with promises of cushy casino executive jobs after demonstrating support of gaming revenue during their political careers. 5.9% tax on "reported" casino earnings is way too low and a 1% increase could significantly impact Nevada's educational system.

I just really hate to hear people called stupid because of lack of education. Some of us had great opportunities, which translated into good educations. Some very smart people don't have that opportunity and miss out on the education. They are still smart (some of the uneducated may be giving you accurate directions on some obscure trail someday).

Despite all the negativity, Southern Nevada's educational system sent 6 kids to Harvard and 7 to Stanford this past year. Some of our kids, parents and teachers are doing a pretty good job!

Las Vegas is a young community presently forming roots. We may see a change over the next two decades as the town matures. The current economic downturn may accelerate the process. Just my opinion.
I would never call anyone 'dumb' or 'stupid' based on a degree, as you have stated a degree is not in itself an accurate gauge of intellegence. I dont look down on people who lack the opportunity to go to college, nor do I judge those who simply dont want to go. Although that I strongly encourage everyone to do so, it is not for everyone. For example my best friend has no degree and is a pretty smart guy and doing alright in life. I was simply stating the results of a recent study of our national population and where our local population scored.

Of course there are some smart kids/ people in the valley, like I said earlier to think that everyone here is dumb would be rediculous. However, similar to our valleys income levels there is a huge dichotomy between those kids and the vast majority. There is not an emphasis in general here to lean toward higher education, or in many cases high school graduation. I have never lived anywhere prior to here where I heard on several occassions from several different people "why are you still going to school, that's stupid", or some similar variation.

Of course there are some great teachers in this valley who work dillegently everyday to help alleviate this problem despite the extremely low paycheck and public support, and for what its worth I will soon be one of them. But more often than not the low pay here is not enough to attract or hold very many quality teachers for long.

If the valley's educational system alone was the sole "big issue" it would not necessarily be a "deal killer" for Las Vegas for many. However, compared to many other places there are several other issues that cause many to quickly become disenchanted with this community. This is why we have such a transient population that Las Vegas has demonstrated over the last couple of decades. I theorize that many long term Vegan's simply do not know what it is like living in another community, those of us who have recently moved here do. If you have never experienced any other culture other than the "Vegas culture" you would have no idea what you were missing. This is especially prominant with those of us who came from smaller towns with a strong sense of community. Like BigSlacker said, I have lived here over five years and have never had trouble meeting new friends until I moved here.

I too never intended for this to be a huge debate on the pro's/ con's of southern Nevada, but I wish I was told a few of these things and did a little more research before I decided to move and buy a home here. Additionally, this is why I try not to post all that much on the internet. If this were an in person converstation most of us would most likely be in agreement. However, as with any debate on an internet forum it is certain to lead to disagreement, misunderstanding, and hard feelings. I have said all that I need to say on the matter.

Have a great day.
 

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Personally I find the 'underfunded' issue a cop out anyway. My wife is from Poland and she went to school during the communist years. You're not gonna tell me they had even 1/10th the budget US schools do these days. Yet her and a great many other Poles I've met have impressed me with their breadth of knowledge compared to even highly educated (but more narrowly focused) US folks.

I think the main problem in the US (before you go to college) is lack of standards and accountability for students. Not enough is expected of the kids at school or at home and it breeds laziness. Kids are like dogs, they need positive challenge and work or their energy will go who knows where, probably chewing on your couch. :D

FWIW I'm a college dropout (I lasted 1.5 years) and in the educational business. I teach high level technical bootcamps. I've had a lifelong love of knowledge and learning that was almost squashed by the formal educational system. I found that from kindergarten to undergrad if you're intelligent and able to conceptualize quickly you're going to be nothing but held back by the system. Its just not healthy to make kids memorize to pass a test, then forget as you're on to the next thing. Give them the concept, then make sure they can find the specifics they need on their own to solve real problems. Teach a man to fish and all that. You won't see this in almost any public schools and not until graduate level in most colleges.

Ummmm....... Riding was great at bootleg today. :D
 

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a third WOW. i know it is hard to believe that las vegas is unique relative other metro populations of 2 million or greater, but it is. it must be the strip, or maybe the weather, no, blame it on hoover dam.

i agree on the locals disrespect for one another; from one local to another, from me to wingbackwards, i wish you many flats for the new year. take that, ha!

on a more depressing melancholy note, cowboy is looking damn good.

my $0.02 on the topic is for you to talk to a real estate agent and tell them what you are looking for. i am partial to the west, but that is because that is where i hail. the guys out of henderson, AKA green valley, ride their butts off, and have their own favorites on that side of town. the weather and close proximity to some very unique geography is a huge plus.
 
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