[rufus]

Ok, I just cannot mount a tire to these rims. I'm trying them with a tube for now, just because I've never run a tubeless setup, and want to wait and learn a bit more before I try it. But I just cannot get the tire onto the rim without using levers, and in the process, I end up destroying the tube. I've gone through three or four tubes so far,

Have the same problem whether it's the cheapie wire bead Nanoraptors I first got, or a new Schwalbe Racing Ralph. I've watched the videos on the Stan's site, and he just makes it look so easy, hanging the tire off the rim and then rolling it up on. But I just can't seem to get the hang of this.

Any trick to getting these things on the rim without destroying them in the process?

 

[edubfromktown]

Running with a tube for a bit is not necessarily a bad thing; when you go tubeless, they will probably seal a little easier.

Here's what I do to mount a tire with tube (no levers required):

Mount one side of the tire on the rim.

Inflate the tube with just enough air for it to take it's round shape.

Insert the valve through the rim and gently roll the tube inside the tire all the way around.

Sit on the floor and put the tire between your legs with the valve at the lowest point.

Gently slip the tire bead over the rim where tire valve is located.

Using both hands continue slipping the tire bead over the rim in opposite directions, making sure the tube stays out of the way (by pressing it in the tire if needed).

As you get close to the "top of the rim" it will become more difficult to slip the tire over the rim. When you can no longer progress: start with both hands down near the valve again move the tire back and forth while pushing toward the top of the rim. Continue working your hands around the tire on both sides.

You should be able to roll the remainder of the tire bead over the rim. If you can't, repeat the previous step again.

Once the tire is mounted, pump it up to ~40 PSI or until you hear a couple of loud pops. If I do not hear the beads seat on the rim, I pump them up to 60 PSI and let them sit for a couple hours, then drop the pressure down.

 

[rufus]

Well I just destroyed another tube. Got the tire mounted on the rear, and pumped it up, but a few minutes later it's obvious it's not holding air.

Instead of continuing to waste money on tubes, I think I might just try the tubeless setup right now. I've got a set of Arch rims built up for me by Universal Cycles, and they included a set of valve stems and the Stan's yellow tape with them. What do I need to go tubeless with Stan's rims? Is just the yellow tape enough? Only a single layer, or does it need a couple times around?

I assume then I put in the valve stems, and get some Stan's sealant, and then just do what I've seen on the videos, correct? And if using the Stan's valves, do I need to enlarge the hole in the rim, like I've seen him say on the install videos?

 

[hillwilly]

I'm running motorcycle stems on Azonic Outlaws tubeless. I would go tubeless if you trail ride allot. My LBS put 2 wraps of tape on inside of the rims. It requires extra effort to go tubeless, but I think it's worth it.

 

[dwt]

Here's the link to "correct way" to install a tubeless tire by hand:

http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/t...sTires/SI-0028A-ENG_v1_m56577569830607782.pdf

The soapy water recomendation is key, and don't omit it. Soapy water both helps get the bead on the rim, as well as sealing the bead when you inflate.

Now, back to the real world. You are hardly alone finding that the correct way doesn't appear to work all that well for normal people installing a UST beaded tire onto a ZTR rim. At least the first time it is mounted. It gets easier after a change or two if you do change your tires. UST beads are designed to be inflexible, which is what keeps them on the rim, but the trade off is potential trouble mounting.

I have devised a sure fire way which is similar to the correct way, but it involves tire levers. Bike mechanic purists say levers are for freds and barneys. I have no problem with that. I want my freaking tire mounted and if the only way I can do it is with levers, so be it. It's better than swearing a blue streak, pissing off your wife or g/f, and scaring your pets and/or kids.

I highly recommend these levers because they are strong but not metal and therefore don't damage rims. Once you get into levers, you should forget about tubes, because the levers will cut into tubes more often than not - at least if you are dealing with UST beads.

Install the first bead as described for the correct way. But for the second bead, we depart from the correct way, and start at the valve rather than the other side of the tire. Why? Since we have given up on doing it by hand, we don' t care that beads are on the ledge and not in the channel. We are trying to guarantee that once we get the tire mounted, we won't have any issues getting the beads to seat into the bead socket at this crucial point on the wheel, where the air goes in. We want to pump air into the tire, not into space.

Next, we work the bead around over the rim to the point where our hand muscles give up. This should be at least 80% of the way around. Don't forget soapy water.

Now, lay the wheel on the floor. If you are right handed, step on the tire with your left foot to keep the bead in place on the left side of the rim. Don't step on your $80 rim, however. From the other side, pry the bead over the rim with the tire lever a few inches at a time. Don't go for a big piece of bead, as it requires too much leverage. A little elbow grease and care will get the tire on completely with no damage to either the bead or the rim.

Now that you have the sucker on, you can probably inflate it with no sealant, the rule of thumb being the tighter the bead, the easier to seat and inflate. But that is probably not a great idea unless you have full UST spec bead and rim. So inject a bit of sealant through your valve*, slosh it around, and then inflate. A floor pump is all you need with a ZTR rim.

*If you don't have a valve with removable core, forget everything above until you get one, unless use have full UST spec and don't need sealant.

 

[rufus]

Do you need to replace a removable core every time you take it out, or can you re-use the old one?

I just made an order from Stan's for the stuff I'll need, but I didn't order extra valve cores.

 

[dwt]

Do you need to replace a removable core every time you take it out, or can you re-use the old one?

I just made an order from Stan's for the stuff I'll need, but I didn't order extra valve cores.

You can re-use them. Sometimes they get gunked up with sealant and can't be tightened or loosened easily, but if you soak them in water (or in tough case stronger solvent), you can clean them.

 

[edubfromktown]

Well I just destroyed another tube. Got the tire mounted on the rear, and pumped it up, but a few minutes later it's obvious it's not holding air.

Instead of continuing to waste money on tubes, I think I might just try the tubeless setup right now. I've got a set of Arch rims built up for me by Universal Cycles, and they included a set of valve stems and the Stan's yellow tape with them. What do I need to go tubeless with Stan's rims? Is just the yellow tape enough? Only a single layer, or does it need a couple times around?

I assume then I put in the valve stems, and get some Stan's sealant, and then just do what I've seen on the videos, correct? And if using the Stan's valves, do I need to enlarge the hole in the rim, like I've seen him say on the install videos?

Hmmm, I wonder if there's something sharp along the inside of the rim you are having issues with.

You got it - re: tubless setup. Follow Stan's recommendations.

Once around with rim tape (overlap just a smidge). Poke a hole through for the stem (I use a jeweler's screwdriver and round out when I put it through. You can re-use all parts of the stem.

I use 1-1/2 of the little cup fulls of Stan's goo.

Inflating the tire with a hand pump can be a challenge... you may need higher volume pump to inflate them.

I'll never use a UST tire...

 

[edubfromktown]

Bike mechanic purists say levers are for freds and barneys. I have no problem with that. I want my freaking tire mounted and if the only way I can do it is with levers, so be it. It's better than swearing a blue streak, pissing off your wife or g/f, and scaring your pets and/or kids.

...or having to walk 10-15 miles with a flat.

Right on; I'm no purist (nor judgmental for that matter ); more a minimalist. I have yet to get a flat out on the trails but when it happens, I know that I can slap a tube in and mount a tire with bare hands (and no additional tools to stuff in my already bursting 1 lb seat pack).

 

[dwt]

Inflating the tire with a hand pump can be a challenge... you may need higher volume pump to inflate them.

I'll never use a UST tire...

There's really no perfect tire for tubeless - it all depends on preference.

REGULAR TIRE:

Advantages:

1) generally lightest alternative
2) generally least expensive alternative
3) easy to mount.
4) reputed to have more supple feel.

Disadvantages:

1) Crapshoot. Some rim/tire combos work, some don't. If they don't work, the tire will blow off the rim.
2) Requires one of the following to work tubeless:
a) rimstrip - adds weight and considerable expense;
b) ghetto - less weight, less expense, but requires patience and effort, and tires are difficult to change once mounted.
c) ZTR rim. What can I say? I have one set of Crests for mtn. and one Alpha for road, love them, and one day all my rims will be ZTR. But you have to buy a new rim/wheel.
3) requires sealant.
4) Difficult to seat and inflate (compressor).

UST TIRE ON UST RIM

Advantages:

1) 100% reliable
2) no sealant
3) no rimstrip
4) no tape
5) puncture resistant
6) easy to seat/inflate (floor pump).

Disadvantages:

1) Generally heaviest alternative (by a considerable amount)
2) Generally expensive.
3) Can be difficult to mount.

UST TIRE ON CONVERTED RIM OR ZTR

Advantages:

1) 100% reliable
2) no rimstrip
3) puncture resistant
4) easy to seat/inflate (floor pump).

Disadvantages:

1) heavy tire on light rim.
2) expensive tire.
3) Can be difficult to mount.
4) Requires sealant.
5) Requires tape

TLR TIRE WITH UST SPEC BEAD

Same as UST, but lighter and therefore not puncture resistant. Sealant recommended even on UST rim.

Having tried everything but ghetto, I've decided that TLR is the best all around compromise, and run them on ZTR Crest rims (my light wheels) and Mavic UST rims (my heavy wheels). I also run UST tires on converted Mavic rims (tape, no rimstrip) on my third bike, a SS. As soon as those tires wear out, they will be replaced with TLR.

 

[mtnbikej]

Face it.....some tires just don't fit on some rims........some tires are really really tight.

Most tires I can get on and off without tire levers on the Arch's on my SS.....however, the WTB Vulpine is a bear to get on....even with tire levers.

 

[dwt]

Just mounted Hutchinson Fusion 3 tires on ZTR Alpha road rims by hand.:thumbsup: And they seated instantly with a little sealant, inflated easily with a floor pump.

If only my Geax Barro TNT's were easy to mount on Crest rims.

 

[jeffj]

You only need one round of yellow tape, but I have began using two layers just so if I need to take a little off if the end starts to come up, I have some extra on there. Aoring them up with a tube the first time after installing the yellow tape is a good idea as the tube will put pressure on the tape all the way around to help it stay adhered to the rim.

You can definitely re-use the valve stems, but it's a good idea to have an extra around just incase something happens. Before installing the stem, I use a small rat tail fike to trim the excess tape around the valve hole. And make sure to tighten the top section of the valve down into the lower section so it doesn't come loose when undoing the tiny 'nut' on the core when you want to add air.

While on the subject of inflating tires on Stans rims, when going tubeless I like to use these two items with my compressor:

http://www.nycewheels.com/valve-adaptor-p-s.html

http://www.toolorbit.com/Interstate-Pneumatics/IP-T04.html

The ball chucks let more air through than the fancy gas station style chucks which helps when some tires are a little reluctant to get the beads seated enough to start holding air.

Haven't used Arches, but Flows haven't been a problem. When installing any tube, you may have to reach up under the bead to poke the tube up into the tire so it isn't getting pinched as you roll the bead up and over the edge of the rim. I use a slim piece if plastic to do that if it's too tight to get my fat fingers in there to do it.

 

[mmmiles]

Running with a tube for a bit is not necessarily a bad thing; when you go tubeless, they will probably seal a little easier.

Here's what I do to mount a tire with tube (no levers required):

Mount one side of the tire on the rim.

Inflate the tube with just enough air for it to take it's round shape.

Insert the valve through the rim and gently roll the tube inside the tire all the way around.

Sit on the floor and put the tire between your legs with the valve at the lowest point.

Gently slip the tire bead over the rim where tire valve is located.

Using both hands continue slipping the tire bead over the rim in opposite directions, making sure the tube stays out of the way (by pressing it in the tire if needed).

As you get close to the "top of the rim" it will become more difficult to slip the tire over the rim. When you can no longer progress: start with both hands down near the valve again move the tire back and forth while pushing toward the top of the rim. Continue working your hands around the tire on both sides.

You should be able to roll the remainder of the tire bead over the rim. If you can't, repeat the previous step again.

Once the tire is mounted, pump it up to ~40 PSI or until you hear a couple of loud pops. If I do not hear the beads seat on the rim, I pump them up to 60 PSI and let them sit for a couple hours, then drop the pressure down.

I know this tip was from 7 years ago, but it just worked great, thank you - I was struggling with Magic Mary's on Crest S1... I guess some things don't change.

 

[edubfromktown]

I know this tip was from 7 years ago, but it just worked great, thank you - I was struggling with Magic Mary's on Crest S1... I guess some things don't change.

No problem... glad it worked.

Sometimes we all need a bit of encouragement/guidance (or in my case a bop on the head lol) to sort things out

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