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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
It's not really "race relations" but the attitudes involved invoke the same arguments, emotions and bickering.

This is the deal:

Bicycling, specifically mountain biking is a sport enjoyed differently by different people. Some like XC, light weight, all day, up hill, down dale sweat-athons.

Others like "all mountain" or "enduro" or "trail riding" up hill, DH, sweat-athon leg burners on squishy bikes.

Other still like "DH" "free ride" etc, down hill, big jumps, speed thrills and lots of spills.

Some like all of the above.

All forms of mountain biking can be enjoyed while respecting others rights and nature's beauty.

All other things being equal, why do you care if someone rode their bike to the top?

"earn your turns?" I paid good money for all my bikes. I've earned the right to ride them however I want.

You spend a day riding my 45 # DH bike and tell my you didn't "earn" it.

Whenever DH or free ride is mentioned on this forum atleast one person will use the UYT slogan and others will find other ways to admonish those inclined to enjoy GPV's.

I say riding is riding. Personally, I enjoy all day, up hill, down hill, jump, spill, slide, up, down, sweat, Gu, water, pedal, beer.

Every now and then, downhill, crash, jump, slide, jump crash type rides are fun - but I have to "earn" these rides. As long as I'm under 180#'s, I've earned the right to ride my DH rig.

This morning I weighed 181 - got a little more work to do :)

All I'm saying is, if you've got a nit to pick regarding trail etiquette, fine. If you have a bone to pick regarding mtb/park relations, fine. Speak your peace.

But when it comes to the different ways we all enjoy bikes, nature, friends and fun - why can't we all just get along?!?!?
 

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I enjoy

Personally, I enjoy all the pissing and moaning, insults, carying on about how one type of riding is better than another, you don't know sh!t, I've been riding longer than you, you suck, nomad sucks, "little victories"...blah blah blah...especially when it is too damn cold and wet to get up the courage to go for a ride....

I roast on "shuttle heads all the time...then go to downieville and pay $18 to get shuttled to the top...not because I am a hypocrite but because I like to stir the pot and besides if you don't ride xc...you suck....dhr's and free riders suck! except you Johnny....blah blah blah

I like to go up hill, safety meeting, down hill, safety meeting, crash, laugh, safety meeting up, down, crash, PBJ, water, pedal, beer and more beer. to each their own. But, really xc rules and every thing else sucks! Oh yes...and if you don't ride an SS you are a pu$$ie!

blah blah blah...now, is'nt this fun? :D :p :D :p
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Correctemundo!

bigboulder said:
Personally, I enjoy all the pissing and moaning, insults, carying on about how one type of riding is better than another, you don't know sh!t, I've been riding longer than you, you suck, nomad sucks, "little victories"...blah blah blah...especially when it is too damn cold and wet to get up the courage to go for a ride....

I roast on "shuttle heads all the time...then go to downieville and pay $18 to get shuttled to the top...not because I am a hypocrite but because I like to stir the pot and besides if you don't ride xc...you suck....dhr's and free riders suck! except you Johnny....blah blah blah

I like to go up hill, safety meeting, down hill, safety meeting, crash, laugh, safety meeting up, down, crash, PBJ, water, pedal, beer and more beer. to each their own. But, really xc rules and every thing else sucks! Oh yes...and if you don't ride an SS you are a pu$$ie!

blah blah blah...now, is'nt this fun? :D :p :D :p
That's about the size of it.

I don't understand the high browed nature of those who scoff at DH'ers as though they're some lower form of mtb'er.

I guess at one point I was that way - back when I was a leg shaving expert class xc racer and borderline roadie. Older, wiser ( :D ) and much more diverse, these days I just ride for the shitsngiggles and to stave off the love handles.

"Earn your turns" just sounds to Point Break'ish and silly. We ain't pack animals, I ain't following the lead of an alpha wolf and if I get to the top of the hill via the car I work hard to pay for or the bike I work hard to pay for, I figure I've earned the ride back down.
 

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If one always rode to the top

then one would always know what is was like to have a rider blow by one downhill treating you little better than a pylon. I just thought of that. I kinda like it.
As far as "earning your downs" I'm not sure I appreciate that sort of economy for anyone but myself and the kids I train when they are with me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Berkeley Mike said:
then one would always know what is was like to have a rider blow by one downhill treating you little better than a pylon. I just thought of that. I kinda like it.
As far as "earning your downs" I'm not sure I appreciate that sort of economy for anyone but myself and the kids I train when they are with me.
That may be, but the link between those who lack trail etiquette and those who ride DH bikes is a tough one to draw.

The real problem (if and when there is one) is trail etiquette - no matter what bike you're on, you can still do damage to other trail users if you're flying by them without enough room for safety.

This may be compartmentalized thinking, but I think it's vallid, usefull and not to mention, epistemological.
 

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Remember,

imridingmybike said:
That may be, but the link between those who lack trail etiquette and those who ride DH bikes is a tough one to draw.

The real problem (if and when there is one) is trail etiquette - no matter what bike you're on, you can still do damage to other trail users if you're flying by them without enough room for safety.

This may be compartmentalized thinking, but I think it's vallid, usefull and not to mention, epistemological.
You WERE talking about up and down and I described an experiential advantage of climbing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Berkeley Mike said:
You WERE talking about up and down and I described an experiential advantage of climbing.
What I was talking about is the hauty air of superiority expressed in this forum by those who espouse the "earn your turns" doctrine.

Those who express with both audacity and ignorance that downhillers, shuttlers and the like are inherantly out of shape ; the implication of which is their inherent inferiority.

The contemptous manner that these doctrinairres treat those they perceive to be inferior.

My main point, as I'm sure you understand, is this generalized contempt for DH'ers is ill conceived, misplaced and ignorant. I happen to enjoy a long trail ride over DH, and love riding places such as Tamarancho, Rockville, Mount Diablo etc... and no one in their right mind would suggest that I am out of shape. Considering my bike weighs 5 to 10#'s more than the average of those who post here, I more than most, "earn my turns".

That being said, on occasion, I take my DH bike to Downieville, Whistler, and yes, sometimes JM.

What gets my goat is any time DH is mentioned on this board the haughty UYT doctrinnaires rear their ugly heads, hackles raised and look down there long snooty noses like myopic, procrustean English professors readying to smack the offenders knuckles with a ruler.

I say get off it!

If you want to discuss trail etiquette - great, let's do it.

If you want to discuss park access, I'm there (or not if you prefer ;-)

But to simply mark anyone with an 8" travel bike as an outlaw is silly, stupid, myopic, ignorant, wrong, blah, blah blah.

Don't you understand that it's the rider and not the bike? I ride a 4" xc bike, a 6" enduro bike and an 8" DH bike. Do I have different trail manners and values depending which I'm on? Of course not. Therefore, you must understand that the real conversation should be specific to the problem, not tangentially linked attributes.

End Rant.

IRMB
 

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imridingmybike said:
What I was talking about is the hauty air of superiority expressed in this forum by those who espouse the "earn your turns" doctrine.

Those who express with both audacity and ignorance that downhillers, shuttlers and the like are inherantly out of shape ; the implication of which is their inherent inferiority.

The contemptous manner that these doctrinairres treat those they perceive to be inferior.

My main point, as I'm sure you understand, is this generalized contempt for DH'ers is ill conceived, misplaced and ignorant. I happen to enjoy a long trail ride over DH, and love riding places such as Tamarancho, Rockville, Mount Diablo etc... and no one in their right mind would suggest that I am out of shape. Considering my bike weighs 5 to 10#'s more than the average of those who post here, I more than most, "earn my turns".

That being said, on occasion, I take my DH bike to Downieville, Whistler, and yes, sometimes JM.

What gets my goat is any time DH is mentioned on this board the haughty UYT doctrinnaires rear their ugly heads, hackles raised and look down there long snooty noses like myopic, procrustean English professors readying to smack the offenders knuckles with a ruler.

I say get off it!

If you want to discuss trail etiquette - great, let's do it.

If you want to discuss park access, I'm there (or not if you prefer ;-)

But to simply mark anyone with an 8" travel bike as an outlaw is silly, stupid, myopic, ignorant, wrong, blah, blah blah.

Don't you understand that it's the rider and not the bike? I ride a 4" xc bike, a 6" enduro bike and an 8" DH bike. Do I have different trail manners and values depending which I'm on? Of course not. Therefore, you must understand that the real conversation should be specific to the problem, not tangentially linked attributes.

End Rant.

IRMB
You and Mike have to stop using words with 4 syllables or more, it's too hard to follow. :)
 

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xc, dh, whatever

just ride and do not b!tch. We can all do what we want to, we all have different opinions, and this is America. I can ride my SS bike downhill, can ride my DH bike cross-country, and take by bigwheel for a freeride!

Bear in mind, that a dh bike can go faster more safely on a dh run than a xc bike, and that same dh bike is much slower on xc trails and stops on a dime. Therefore, would it not be the best logical choice for safe fun, as far as encounters with hikers/horses are concerned and overall controlability?

And I can take by bigwheel on and singletrack, because it is not a bicycle!
 

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I think this was directed at me

My point in the other thread, was that I have ridden JM a bunch of times (I live like 1/2 mile from there) and didn't know there were any legal DH runs there that were even worth shuttling. That was one point.

The other point was that the local folks up there are really well organized and hell bent to get mountain bikers kicked out of the park altogether. I stopped going up there for a bunch of reasons, but the main reason was that I could not enjoy a ride up there without some knucklehead giving me grief about being blown off the trail... even on fireroads slowing down to 5 mph with plenty of clearence and saying hello when 75' out.

They do have big problems up there with poachers cutting thier own trails and blowing hikers off of them. In fact, some bonehead videotaped his poach DH runs and ran them on public access TV a few months ago. No kidding.

That is exactly the fuel for the fire that the bike haters need to get us all kicked out of there.

I'm not a DH hater, I was just concerned about the JM situation. Shuttle away. I do at Downieville. Although, next DVille trip I do I may do the climb up to Packer Saddle. Dang, even with shuttling, there is still 2000 feet of climbing to do, the route we take. McKenzie River Trail is another one I would shuttle.
 

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Did you say McKenzie River

Trail....that focking trail rocks! Can't wait to do it again sometime....maybe when and if I do the MTB Oregon thing...I'll make a side trip. I still have a scar on my right thumb from oe of the "slice and dice" sections of lava flow. I agree that is a shuttle xc ride because of the length 30+
 

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Well, you have a point but the facts may be otherwise

Granted that people can ride what they want, but wasn't it reported by a highly respected study that in fact, the average IQ of downhill riders is 7 points lower than that of cross country riders, even after adjusting for differing educational levels?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Chester said:
Granted that people can ride what they want, but wasn't it reported by a highly respected study that in fact, the average IQ of downhill riders is 7 points lower than that of cross country riders, even after adjusting for differing educational levels?
I haven't seen that study - but how stupid do you have to be to ride the median of the nimitz??? :D
 

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Chester said:
Granted that people can ride what they want, but wasn't it reported by a highly respected study that in fact, the average IQ of downhill riders is 7 points lower than that of cross country riders, even after adjusting for differing educational levels?
You are in rare form today!!! :) Everybody knows that DHers propensity to fall at high speeds is bound to impact their IQ. :)

How's your neck doing these days?
 

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Funny thing

I don't do a whole lot of shuttling myself, but it seems from the posts that the riders that do like to shuttle are much stronger riders than the anti-shuttlers. So my theory is that the anti-shuttlers feel a greater reward from the accomplishment of riding up a hill while pro-shuttlers could care less.

I would say people derive satisfaction from different things depending what each persons skills are. I like riding out my door, up Mt. Diablo and then enjoying the more technical decent. On the other hand, taking the shuttle up to Packer Saddle and riding back down to Downieville is about the most fun I have had on two wheels.

So, just because climbing 4,000 feet is a big accomplishment to you, isn't a good reason to nock someone elses riding preference because that may be easy and boring to another rider.
 

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Neck good........on the road

zorg said:
You are in rare form today!!! :) Everybody knows that DHers propensity to fall at high speeds is bound to impact their IQ. :)

How's your neck doing these days?
Neck feels fairly good as long as I stay off trails.........but it has left my left index finger a bit numb, perhaps for good.... A small price to pay for all the fun... :)
Anyway I'm making the rounds on my Stumpy HT with 26x1.25 slicks pumped up to near bursting psi.. Upright HT still best for my neck.
Still love my initial gentle warm up through the park from the top of Jackson Grade through to Bort Gate/RW Rd. I just take it easy warming up, enjoying the nature and then put the pedal down once I hit Redwood Rd...and see some roadies ahead... Up and over Pinehurst, to Skyline and then up to the top of Grizzly Peak....in Berkeley.... Love them climbs....
Always keeping an eye out, half expecting to see you sometime at the Skyline Gate near Eastridge, Westridge or even dropping down into Joaquin Miller....
Perhaps in the Spring when it gets dry, I'll venture back into the park trails around Brandon, McDonald etc. and test the neck.
Of course I'd always make an exception if someone proposes a Brandon golf course hillclimb TT :D

After seeing you guys mention about the Gravity Dropper I just read a magazine review....
Very interesting. Never heard of it before, but I don't quite understand how it gets "back up" once it goes down. Then again, just turning 56, I'm trying to understand how to do that at home also :p
See you riding around one of these days, I'm sure.
 

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Chester said:
After seeing you guys mention about the Gravity Dropper I just read a magazine review....
Very interesting. Never heard of it before, but I don't quite understand how it gets "back up" once it goes down. Then again, just turning 56, I'm trying to understand how to do that at home also :p
See you riding around one of these days, I'm sure.
Well, I can only try to explain the Gravity Dropper system. :D The post has an internal spring, and two internal holes (high and low position). When you release the pin from its hole in the high position, you push down the seat until you reach the low position, and let the pin go in the second hole to keep the seat in place. To bring the seat back up, release the pin, move your butt off the seat, let the spring push the seat back up, pin goes into hole. Voila, you're done. Best invention since Stan's notubes and full suspension bikes.

As for seeing me in Redwood, that will have to wait a few more weeks until my toe heals completely.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
zorg said:
Well, I can only try to explain the Gravity Dropper system. :D The post has an internal spring, and two internal holes (high and low position). When you release the pin from its hole in the high position, you push down the seat until you reach the low position, and let the pin go in the second hole to keep the seat in place. To bring the seat back up, release the pin, move your butt off the seat, let the spring push the seat back up, pin goes into hole. Voila, you're done. Best invention since Stan's notubes and full suspension bikes.

As for seeing me in Redwood, that will have to wait a few more weeks until my toe heals completely.
Hey Zorg,

You use the Gravity Dropper post? Would you recomend the 3 or 4" on a 6" travel all-around type bike?

Do you use the bar mount or the post mounted adjustement?

Danke, IRMB
 
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