Mountain Bike Reviews Forum banner
1 - 20 of 42 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
5,540 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
For many years those of us less talented riders have been frustrated at not being able to ridie the section of trail across from Budda beach. I got word that frustration is finally being vented by making the trail rideable for 80% or more of mountain bike users.

I would like to apologize to those mountain bikers who have enjoyed riding that part of trail for the last six years, but those less skilled riders like myself are tired of walking that section.

The total trail fix may that about one month to complete due to key people vacationing in Hawaii, but 80% of the section should be rideable within a week or sooner if all the stars become aligned.
 

·
PMP,TAN,LAUNDRY
Joined
·
4,325 Posts
traildoc said:
I would like to apologize to those mountain bikers who have enjoyed riding that part of trail for the last six years, but those less skilled riders like myself are tired of walking that section.

The total trail fix may that about one month to complete due to key people vacationing in Hawaii, but 80% of the section should be rideable within a week or sooner if all the stars become aligned.
Sweet can't wait to go faster now on that section and scare hiking tourist.
 

·
Elitest thrill junkie
Joined
·
37,043 Posts
What's the best way to connect the Buddah Beach section with West Sedona? (to allow riding both sets of trails).
 

·
Just another half mile...
Joined
·
1,092 Posts
Many years ago it was 80% ridable, but after several big floods over the years, the power of big water has rearranged big boulders and washed away soil along that section of trail that is located in the flood zone. How are you going to protect your improvements from the power of mother nature?

traildoc said:
For many years those of us less talented riders have been frustrated at not being able to ridie the section of trail across from Budda beach. I got word that frustration is finally being vented by making the trail rideable for 80% or more of mountain bike users.

I would like to apologize to those mountain bikers who have enjoyed riding that part of trail for the last six years, but those less skilled riders like myself are tired of walking that section.

The total trail fix may that about one month to complete due to key people vacationing in Hawaii, but 80% of the section should be rideable within a week or sooner if all the stars become aligned.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,907 Posts
Are you talking about the flood zone or the climb out and up to Templeton? Seems like the flood zone would be a waste of time once the pineapple express arrives and falls on all that December snow. Not many can clean that climb either. It's gotten pretty rugged.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
5,540 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Epicrider said:
How are you going to protect your improvements from the power of mother nature?
ER:

Good question, it took one day to get approval and one day to fix the trail. The trail is still walkable, so those that want to walk, it still have that option. I personally don't mind investing one day every five years to keep that section rideable.

I would say the trail is totally rideable in the western direction by many Sedona riders, but probably not by tourons.

TD
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
5,540 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
rockman said:
Are you talking about the flood zone or the climb out and up to Templeton?
Rocky:

I think belonging to an exercise facility is a waste of time, but people are still going. One day every five years is not a terrible waste of time. The Forest Service might get some PR out of it, so it might not have been a total waste of time.

There should be some type of Las Vagas pool on how long the rebuilt section will stay rideable. Since you are our resident geologist what is your prediction?

TD
 

·
Will Guide for Beer
Joined
·
727 Posts
Missing the point .... For those that don't really understand .... the big picture here is that this trail improvement was OK'ed by the forest service. Full credit should be directed toward our beloved Trail Doc for taking the time and initiative to get this thing going AND get this unridable (by 99.99% of all riders) section of trail ridable. Plenty of hard labor.

So far as I know, this is one of the first times that the mountain bike community has reached out to the Forest Service and permission for improvement was granted. The improvement from this work will benifit all trail users from this point until the next 100 year flood. Check your Farmer's Almanac and place you Las Vegas bet for 12/21/2012. The odds are something like 2:1, but what the hell?

Volunteer work is free and worth every penny. I'll be riding that unridable section tomorrow. :thumbsup:
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
5,540 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
brilog said:
Templeton was 90% rideable for me going down. HAB going up however...
Brilog;

I don't mean to be too anal, but do really mean to tell me that Templeton is only 90% rideable for you :skep: ? Your % seems pretty low. I am an old dude and I would say on a bad day the down section is 99% plus rideable by me and on a great day would be 100% rideable. I think there is only one short spot going downhill that is dangerous, right?

How do you calculate your percentages, Distance walked divided by distance ridden?

Just think now that the trail has been fixed (across from Budda Beach) it is totally rideable in a westerly diection past the one dangerous spot.

Now that the trail has been fixed it becomes a much more popular section of trail. Throw in H.T., Easy Brezzy, Easy Sleezy, Slime Shady and Made in the Shade and the loop potentials become mind-boggeling IMHO.

TD
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,907 Posts
traildoc said:
Rocky:
I think belonging to an exercise facility is a waste of time, but people are still going. One day every five years is not a terrible waste of time. The Forest Service might get some PR out of it, so it might not have been a total waste of time.

There should be some type of Las Vagas pool on how long the rebuilrt section will stay rideable. Since you are our resident geologist what is your prediction?

TD
I'm no hydrologist and it would take my addled brain some time to figure out the recurrence interval for the 10 yr or 100 yr flood but here's a quick look at the gaging record for recent floods in Sedona.

Water
Year Date Gage Height (feet) Stream-flow (cfs)
1993 Feb. 19, 1993 20.33 23,2007
1996 Sep. 05, 1996 2.99 1236
1997 Apr. 08, 1997 4.86 1,230
1998 Jul. 22, 1998 6.61 3,280
1999 Sep. 23, 1999 5.61 2,000
2000 Mar. 29, 2000 4.15 653
2001 Mar. 13, 2001 4.95 817
2002 Oct. 06, 2001 3.52 259
2003 Feb. 13, 2003 7.80 5,100
2004 Jul. 14, 2004 6.06 2,520
2005 Dec. 29, 2004 18.47 19,000
2006 Jul. 30, 2006 6.40 2,810
2007 Jul. 25, 2007 5.03 1,280
2008 Dec. 07, 2007 11.34 9,820

If I had to guess I'd say most of the trail improvement is 5 to 10 feet above the gage ht of the current discharge which is probably about baseflow (2.2 ft)? This assumes of course that the gage has a similar stage discharge relation (ie., bank geometry, slope, downstream hydraulic control, etc) as the Budhu beach area which might be a bit more open around the curve. I believe the channel is a bit steeper upstream where the gage is so the ht change would be higher. Anyway, there have been about 5 floods in the last 15 years that might have been sufficient to inundate the area. Or, once every 3 years.

If it's more like 15 feet than it's probably more like a 100 yr flood which I believe 1993 and 2005 were close to. At least a 50 yr flood anyway. I rememeber Sedona PD closing the 179 bridge in 2004 because it was shaking so bad from the boulders in transport hitting the piers/supports.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
636 Posts
Dang, that was fast. I'll be riding that section tomorrow but from an eastern direction. Then a little hike a bike up to Templeton. Report to follow at 11.
 

·
Trail Monger
Joined
·
204 Posts
TD; your right, I cleared almost all of it. One dab I figure(s-turn and exposure). I now remember the rough trail around the tree swing. That must be the part you fixed. I cant imagine any trail work being done on the templeton steeps. HAB going up still though.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
5,540 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Chalkpaw said:
Dang, that was fast. I'll be riding that section tomorrow but from an eastern direction. Then a little hike a bike up to Templeton. Report to follow at 11.
CP:

Thanks for offering to help on the project. I didn't feel comfortable contacting you on such short notice. We still have the two stair steps to complete, for the trail to be totally rideable in the eastern direction, so I will make sure and give you a call on that project. If you can figure out an easy fix on that section let me know and we can work on it before 12/12.

When you ride the dumbed down section tomorrow please give an honest opinion if you think it was a worth while improvement. We aren't looking for any sugar coating.

We wanted to rebuild it to withstand a 50 year event, but our rebuild permit only allowed us to use material on the creek side of the trail. Apparently there may be an archeological rich area above the trail and there was a lot of concern that there may be some artifacts up there that could change the world as we now know it.

The landmanager could not allow us to use larger material located on the upper side of the trail without getting qualified government employee out to evaluate the impact. Unfortunately that employee was on vacation and we were to impatient to wait for the approval.

That being said we think that it will hold up pretty well to a 36 year event. Maybe Rockman could give us a flow rate that we should expect the trail to survive, if that was the case.

Many thanks to Phil, zul, Dean, cakewalk, Paul and Daniel for stepping up to make this a worthy effort.

TD
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,907 Posts
Sweet, nice work. I might be down there tomorrow as well. That whole area sort of fell out of the loop a long time ago so to speak. Maybe not so much for the HAB but I'm a loop guy and why ride on Verde Valley school rd? But now that HE is part of the equation....

Thanks for the improvement:thumbsup:
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
5,540 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
rockman said:
Sweet, nice work. I might be down there tomorrow as well. That whole area sort of fell out of the loop a long time ago so to speak. Maybe not so much for the HAB but I'm a loop guy and why ride on Verde Valley school rd? But now that HE is part of the equation....

Thanks for the improvement:thumbsup:
Rocky:

Today we went out on the MBH Wednesday ride and three of us decided to head out to ride H......E via Templeton from Red Rock Crossing. Wow what a difference a day makes.

During the ride we passed several riders and asked how they liked the totally dumbed down section? Not one rider complained, so at this point it seems to be well received.

Three of the riiders were BIG HUSKY dudes from Flag riding singlespeeds. One of the guys was a contractor and another was a nurse. They were heading up Slim Shadey back to VOC.

Hope you and Chalpaw got out to enjoy an excellent day of riding.

TD
 

·
Just another half mile...
Joined
·
1,092 Posts
Thanks TD! It will be nice to ride 90% of that section again.

Here are couple of pics from what it looked liked back in 04' when you could ride 90% of it.




traildoc said:
Rocky:

Today we went out on the MBH Wednesday ride and three of us decided to head out to ride H......E via Templeton from Red Rock Crossing. Wow what a difference a day makes.

During the ride we passed several riders and asked how they liked the totally dumbed down section? Not one rider complained, so at this point it seems to be well received.

Three of the riiders were BIG HUSKY dudes from Flag riding singlespeeds. One of the guys was a contractor and another was a nurse. They were heading up Slim Shadey back to VOC.

Hope you and Chalpaw got out to enjoy an excellent day of riding.

TD
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,907 Posts
traildoc said:
Rocky:

Today we went out on the MBH Wednesday ride and three of us decided to head out to ride H......E via Templeton from Red Rock Crossing. Wow what a difference a day makes.

During the ride we passed several riders and asked how they liked the totally dumbed down section? Not one rider complained, so at this point it seems to be well received.

Three of the riiders were BIG HUSKY dudes from Flag riding singlespeeds. One of the guys was a contractor and another was a nurse. They were heading up Slim Shadey back to VOC.

Hope you and Chalpaw got out to enjoy an excellent day of riding.

TD
I think I saw that same group hitting the pavement after lower Made in the Shade while I was heading out. Hit the Hogs and also your wash connector to Slim. What do you call that? Ran into some Flag riders on swanky Coconino singlespeeds on Llama.

It was indeed a nice afternoon. Maybe next time I'll hit your improvement. In the 90s I remember that section being 100% rideable in a west to east direction. The tricky part was the beginning of the little climb up and then over to the flood zone section.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
636 Posts
traildoc said:
CP:

Thanks for offering to help on the project. I didn't feel comfortable contacting you on such short notice. We still have the two stair steps to complete, for the trail to be totally rideable in the eastern direction, so I will make sure and give you a call on that project. If you can figure out an easy fix on that section let me know and we can work on it before 12/12.

When you ride the dumbed down section tomorrow please give an honest opinion if you think it was a worth while improvement. We aren't looking for any sugar coating.

We wanted to rebuild it to withstand a 50 year event, but our rebuild permit only allowed us to use material on the creek side of the trail. Apparently there may be an archeological rich area above the trail and there was a lot of concern that there may be some artifacts up there that could change the world as we now know it.

The landmanager could not allow us to use larger material located on the upper side of the trail without getting qualified government employee out to evaluate the impact. Unfortunately that employee was on vacation and we were to impatient to wait for the approval.

That being said we think that it will hold up pretty well to a 36 year event. Maybe Rockman could give us a flow rate that we should expect the trail to survive, if that was the case.

Many thanks to Phil, zul, Dean, cakewalk, Paul and Daniel for stepping up to make this a worthy effort.

TD
Today's ride over that section was just fine. I liked how the tall edges of rocks were chipped to help the passage of tire and bottombracket. Still not totally buff but very ridable. It was fine.
As far as the two or three undercut steps on the west side, I don't have an easy fix for the heavy multi-use that trail sees. The trail slopes down several feet in that 25 feet of trail. The steps are about 14-18 inches in height and growing. All my ideas involve dirt and rock. I suppose one could cut some 8-10 inch diameter logs and mostly bury them on the down edge of each step. Or if there were some stone slabs down by the creek we could use to build a ramp up through each step. It looked like the trail slope was too steep to hold an infill of dirt without any thresholds. I think that that type of fix would erode out quickly given the amount of traffic that trail sees. The best solution would to be to remove the steps and install armoring with a midway flat spot built into the trail. Nothing easy as mentioned...
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
5,540 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Chalkpaw said:
Today's ride over that section was just fine. I liked how the tall edges of rocks were chipped to help the passage of tire and bottombracket. Still not totally buff but very ridable. It was fine.
As far as the two or three undercut steps on the west side, I don't have an easy fix for the heavy multi-use that trail sees. The trail slopes down several feet in that 25 feet of trail. The steps are about 14-18 inches in height and growing. All my ideas involve dirt and rock. I suppose one could cut some 8-10 inch diameter logs and mostly bury them on the down edge of each step. Or if there were some stone slabs down by the creek we could use to build a ramp up through each step. It looked like the trail slope was too steep to hold an infill of dirt without any thresholds. I think that that type of fix would erode out quickly given the amount of traffic that trail sees. The best solution would to be to remove the steps and install armoring with a midway flat spot built into the trail. Nothing easy as mentioned...
CP:

I liked your analysis.

Do you think there is any merit to lowering the upper steps and steeping the grade a little plus bringing in some 4" flat rock to place in front of each steep to reduce the height of the steps? Secondly how about developing a 12" high ramp out of rock and soil leading up to the first step?

There is a large stash of rocks about 100' above the steps on the uphill side of the trail that aren't currently available, but maybe in the future, if we get the OK from the archeologist who is on vacation for a couple weeks.

Otherwise there must be material next to the creek, which could be carried over. It would be nice to have a wheelbarrow out there for the transport of the rock.

There is another situation that exists and that is all volunteers must sign a waiver provided by the FS. Unfortunately they don't make it easy since they require volunteers to go to their VOC office to sign the waiver for every project.

Maybe you could just supervise the job and I would do all the work.

It is very frustrating to ask volunteers to go all the way to VOC when they are coming from another direction. It would also be frustrating if the FS were out of forms or the person at the office was out of the office for some reason when the volunteer showed up.

I don't think these agencies understand that many qualified people who would volunteer for trail projects, do so on when it's convenient bases. I asked the FS to give me the waivers so I could give people who wanted to help a copy to sign when they showed up to help.

They said they needed to personally orientate the volunteers that they need to wear safety glasses, a helmet (bike helmet works) and work gloves. It is hard for me to ask people who have spent hundreds of hours doing trail or construction projects to go all the way to VOC to sign waivers, when it would be more convenient for me to have the form to sign and tell those potential volunteers they need wear gloves, glasses and a helmet.

I know I use to sell worker's compesation coverage and I would go out to my clients premises with an insurance company loss control specialist to talk about the importance of using potective gear such as safety glasses, helmets and gloves along with proper lifting techniques and tool safety. I get it.

I went to Flag tonight and saw Avitar in 3D. Wow, has movie production changed forever?
 
1 - 20 of 42 Posts
Top