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mutaullyassuredsuffering
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Interesting

It's fun to see the numbers behind what we always feel. Good interval suggestions!
 

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So would spin classes can really benefit the MTB rider due to the high and low power levels of the hill climbs in the winter? This is very informative and a great insight into what the mtb rider really has to go through in a race. Thumbs up! :thumbsup:
 

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Wow.....what a spike in power, for the MTB rider! That would mean MTB riders can also burn far more calories, in shorter amount of time- than the roadies.....whose power output is spread out over the miles, right?
 

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I think one day you should do an article comparing MTB racing to crit racing, .........and cyclocross as well.

I think you'll find more similarities than differences.

Probably a great place for growth in power studies due to the growing popularity of these races (especially cyclocross), and the lack of power studies/information out there (compared to road racing).

Great job on the article BTW!!!
 

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Zachariah said:
Wow.....what a spike in power, for the MTB rider! That would mean MTB riders can also burn far more calories, in shorter amount of time- than the roadies.....whose power output is spread out over the miles, right?
Umm, no.

There is a direct correlation between average power and calories burned/consumed/metabolized.

Both rides were at the same PE, for the same amount of time. The road bike effort yielded a higher average wattage, thus more calories burned.
 

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Poncharelli said:
I think one day you should do an article comparing MTB racing to crit racing, .........and cyclocross as well.

I think you'll find more similarities than differences.

Probably a great place for growth in power studies due to the growing popularity of these races (especially cyclocross), and the lack of power studies/information out there (compared to road racing).

Great job on the article BTW!!!
+1. One of my friends that I raced against in collegiate road races, and occasionally race against whenever he has an off weekend in the WORS series, says that his efforts in MTB races are very similar to those of a high level criterium.

I'd be more interested in seeing a maximum wattage comparison, however. 5, 10 and 20min intervals. I feel like I can generate more power by gently pulling on the handlebars, "row" it if you will, and it feels much easier on the road bike. Flat or incline road test.
 

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Poncharelli said:
I think one day you should do an article comparing MTB racing to crit racing, .........and cyclocross as well.

I think you'll find more similarities than differences.

Probably a great place for growth in power studies due to the growing popularity of these races (especially cyclocross), and the lack of power studies/information out there (compared to road racing).

Great job on the article BTW!!!
You are correct -- there are a lot of similarities in the zero power and high end bursty power. We did such an article on criterium power way back in 2003 here:
http://www.fascatcoaching.com/criteriumracing.html
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
ssuperx10001 said:
What was your average cadence diffrence?mtb usually has lower cadence,that causes more muscular fatigue and lower watts over time.
Average Cadence was actually quite close, 78 for the mountain bike and 81 for the road bike; left it off to keep the graph simpler and the attention on the power produced (VI was also 1.01 road and 1.04 for the mountain bike, again essentially the same)
 

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Thanks

sprocketjockey9 said:
Just wrapped up my first article on Mountain Bike Power. Detailing the differences between mountain bike and road bike power and what you're training should do about it :thumbsup:

Go Here to give a read through and find some good training tips for the upcoming season.

Great info... was curious what you thought of a Mt biker only training on singltrack. Alternating between - 2 hr. sweet spotish type rides, and grueling interval type rides. I ask this cuz, I just can't hit the road when the trails are right out my door....
I'm a sport rider turning expert. I'm a strong technical rider and have hit the podium several times last year.I had a great season in 2008, learned alot and figured how to really race - no more cramps, pacing etc.. Anyway, I'm just trying to figure out how much more I need to do in order to be competitive in the expert class.
Your thoughts on training for mtb races....on mtb trails only
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
mtcowen said:
Great info... was curious what you thought of a Mt biker only training on singltrack. Alternating between - 2 hr. sweet spotish type rides, and grueling interval type rides. I ask this cuz, I just can't hit the road when the trails are right out my door....
I'm a sport rider turning expert. I'm a strong technical rider and have hit the podium several times last year.I had a great season in 2008, learned alot and figured how to really race - no more cramps, pacing etc.. Anyway, I'm just trying to figure out how much more I need to do in order to be competitive in the expert class.
Your thoughts on training for mtb races....on mtb trails only
If you want to be at the top of your game for 2009, then yes you're going to have to train on the road. While spending time on the mountain bike is critical to keeping your skills sharp and to stay on top of the aforementioned "short burst" efforts, you'll have a hard time effectively performing intervals completely off-road. As you can see from the chart, on the road bike, you can maintain a sustainable power effort, thus producing more kJ's and training at a higher sustained wattage. The more work you can produce over the interval effort, the more effective it is.

Side benefit of training on the road, is the ability to perform your endurance work and lay down your base, which is critical for racing at the top level. If it wasn't effective to be training on the road you wouldn't see all the top pro's out there like they are now :thumbsup:
 

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With the adjustment to trail conditons, lack of traction and a hell of a lot more turning on the trail your conclusions make alot of sense.

It's still proves why the fastest XC racers spend 70 to 80 percent of their time on the road where you can control heartrate, power etc. When it comes to climbing you are much more capable of staying in a specific zone on the road bike where if youback down a bit on the trails you may end up getting off an pushing.

Get used to the sound of cars instead of nature.
 

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Thanks again

sprocketjockey9 said:
If you want to be at the top of your game for 2009, then yes you're going to have to train on the road. While spending time on the mountain bike is critical to keeping your skills sharp and to stay on top of the aforementioned "short burst" efforts, you'll have a hard time effectively performing intervals completely off-road. As you can see from the chart, on the road bike, you can maintain a sustainable power effort, thus producing more kJ's and training at a higher sustained wattage. The more work you can produce over the interval effort, the more effective it is.

Side benefit of training on the road, is the ability to perform your endurance work and lay down your base, which is critical for racing at the top level. If it wasn't effective to be training on the road you wouldn't see all the top pro's out there like they are now :thumbsup:
Appreciate you taking the time to respond . I don't have a road bike, but, I do have tires for the road...so, to the road it is!
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
perryr said:
Nice work! A few devils advocate questions:
I assume you used 2 different PT hubs, have you compared the calibration?

2nd, It would be curious to see the avg watts using the MTB on the same road climb as the road bike. Compare the 2 different bikes on the same road climb.
I did use 2 different pt hubs; and they were both calibrated properly and compared. While I have not ridden the climb used for the road test with my mountain bike, I have ridden several other local climbs. Power data between the 2 units has been verified to be accurate enough for the comparison. :thumbsup:
 

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sprocketjockey9 said:
Average Cadence was actually quite close, 78 for the mountain bike and 81 for the road bike; left it off to keep the graph simpler and the attention on the power produced (VI was also 1.01 road and 1.04 for the mountain bike, again essentially the same)
Thanks for sharing you article. It follows what I always thought to be true.

Addressing someones concern about spinning, while I'm sure my average cadence on the road is higher than on the mtb bike, in short bursts on the mtb my cadence gets a lot higher than it'll get on the road. Having this ability is always going to be a plus.

I think this may have been mentioned, but endurance training on the road will allow you to dig deeper later in the races. This is the biggest weakness I see in "pure" mtb'ers.
 
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