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Discussion Starter · #42 ·
funkle said:
FM, Great review of the Roco. And very cool to hear about your trails. How do you carry your chain saws and tools?
Hey Funkle-
EBX and I have both carried chainsaws with no problem- he uses a Dakine Apex pack I think, and I use a camleback mayhem. It's really not too bad, just lash 'em down well. Climbing is fine. really technical stuff isn't so hot with the tools, but not bad once in a while.

Thanks for posting the pics EB!
 

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Good stuff EB... hard yakka shifting those logs around.

Yo FM, does the moto feel too top heavy with the coil up high ?~?

ebxtreme said:
Nice assessment of the shock and the trails. Jeesh, what a mess......blowdown EVERYWHERE. Of course, the good news is we now have infinite lumber for log rides, cribbing in berms, etc. FYI, the Dakine Apex is the perfect pack for hauling a chainsaw.....it fits in the helmet pouch perfectly and the straps work great for securing it on descents.

A few more pics.... Jump pics were taken pre-berm building so carrying speed into the jump was a bit dicey still.
- FM airing out the motolite.
- FM working on bermage after the jump. Berm framed in with blowdown.

Even with all the blowdown to clear, it ended up being a really fun day in the woods. A good crew and nice weather and decent temps.....first dry trailday I've had in a month+

Cheers,
EB
 

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Discussion Starter · #45 ·
Sorry to dig up this thread, jut wanted to post an update.Last night I was screwing around in my garage, and I found the range of rebound adjustment went much slower than I had thought based on my first ride. Not sure why it seemed so fast then- the conditions were really not ideal for fine-tuning (limited light, cold & wet, guys waiting, etc). It's also possible that the rebound speeds up once the shock is warm? I will post further thoughts as I get more riding time in. For now take my comments below about the roco rebound with a grain of salt!
 

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"El Whatever"
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FM said:
It's also possible that the rebound speeds up once the shock is warm? I will post further thoughts as I get more riding time in. For now take my comments below about the roco rebound with a grain of salt!
With the weather you have up there? Yeah, perfectly possible!

Same with forks... You make perfect sense, FM.
 

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thats right living legend
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Fm!

You've seriously got one of THE BEST looking ML's I've seen! I can't get over how cool it looks with the red rocco, along with the red and black fork, and gold headset.... ugh NICE!

Am I mistaken or did you have a gravity retarder on there before? If so I'm curiouse as to why it went? Looks better with the Thomson though... eh? yeah.

I've had three day's in a row of riding in the rain myself. It's been preetty dry here so it took me a while to get my sea legs back, but hey riding's riding! Looks like today may be nice though the suns out and with the trail drying should be nice and tacky... I can't wieght to hear your further report on the ROCK!....

Merry Christmas man! And thanks for all the cool stuff you've laid down for us all year!!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter · #48 ·
blackagness said:
You've seriously got one of THE BEST looking ML's I've seen!

Am I mistaken or did you have a gravity retarder on there before?
Thanks man! Yeah I think it's a very sexy bike, great lines and the colors really came together which is funny since it was mostly accidental.

Yeah I have a dropper, I sent it back in for a $15 overhaul to tighten it up a bit. It's already back- turn-around time was less than a week! But I am saving it for better times, I don't miss it much at the moment since our rides are so short, I just drop the saddle at the summit and stand up on the climbs. I've also ditched SPD's for a while and am riding flats to hopefully improve my technique and fitness.

PS- just got back from a few hours and more work on the trails. The Roco is awesome, I love the TST feature. The rebound feels great, somehow I had it set too slow before and it was packing down. Definately a different feel from Fox, plusher and more active, the TST is crucial to firm the bike up for climbs. loving it! :thumbsup: Feels like a perfect match too the All Mountain 1.

Happy holidays Titus Bro's! :thumbsup: :D :)
 

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"El Whatever"
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dulyebr said:
FM,

Have you effectively lowered your leverage ratio from 2.5 to 2.2? If so, how should this fact affect things?
Good question...

I don't think the leverage is lower... he still has the 50mm shaft travel and hence same travel at the wheel. The leverage is given by how the linkage works, not by the shock I think.

Would he be able to drop the leverage, things only get better as damping is more effective and easier to tune, longer lasting shock fluid, yada, yada, yada... Foes is onto something with their 2:1. Put your ML in 4" mode and you'll see.
 

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Discussion Starter · #51 ·
dulyebr said:
FM,

Have you effectively lowered your leverage ratio from 2.5 to 2.2? If so, how should this fact affect things?
Chris and I were discussing this- He had an excellent question- could you use a 2.25" stroke shock with the 4" hole to get 4.5" of travel with a 2:1 leverage ratio? This could mean a lighter spring and better small bump compliance.

I haven't taken the measurements to see if it would work...But actually I think mainly the 4" holes change the ratio, as they cause the shock to ramp up more (by compressing the shock at an angle) causing the last inch of travel to be pretty much impossible. But I coud be wrong.

Anyways I agree with Warp, the leverage ratio is determined by the length of the rocker, not the shock. So using a longer stroke shock has nothing to do with the leverage ration.

BTW- I found an excellent thread on ridemonkey about overhauling the roco rear- apparently it's very easy.
 

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FM, I'm loving the idea of that Roco shock. I called up a reseller, and they seemed to think the 2" version should be available mid-january. Do you think there will be a big difference between this in the one you shimmed? Also, did you use a titanium spring? That would be a great way to save some weight.
 

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Discussion Starter · #53 ·
funkle said:
FM, I'm loving the idea of that Roco shock. I called up a reseller, and they seemed to think the 2" version should be available mid-january. Do you think there will be a big difference between this in the one you shimmed? Also, did you use a titanium spring? That would be a great way to save some weight.
I don't know... thats a great question. I have wondered if the damping characteristics might be different on a 2" stroke shock, at the end of stroke. I can say that the 2.25" stroke feels fine with the thickened-up BO bumper, and I like the idea of having extra stroke just for resale value and compatibility with other frames. Word has it PUSH may offer some services for the roco this year, and I am sure they could reduce the travel of the 2.25 stroke as well. So based on all that the 2.25 woud be fine.

OTOH, using the 2.25 (even with reducers) may void your warranty, so wait for the 2.0" if you want to play it safe.
 

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"El Whatever"
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funkle said:
Also, did you use a titanium spring? That would be a great way to save some weight.
Sorry, bro... Not to dismiss your opinion, but IMHO a coil over with a Ti Spring is like going to your Pizza Hut, asking the biggest size for yourself only and then ask Diet-Coke for beverage.

If you want light.. go full monty and ask Air. If you want coils, save the 200 and plus bucks and get a steel one.

Those 200 may go better in a lighter (or better) set of wheels, a lighter set of tyres, etc.

A shock spring is not a place where the weight savings are significant.

As I said, I respect your opinion and not trying to diss you... but If you're not racing, those 200 would be better spent somewhere else.
 

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Discussion Starter · #55 ·
Yeah the best way to save weight is to run as short of spring as possible. I.E. a 450x2.0 instead of a 450x2.75. The difference in length weighs a lot more than the difference in material. Sine it's nearly impossible to find 2.0 or 2.25"stroke Ti springs, I'll stick with steel.

Speaking of which, I haven't yet found a 450 spring.... if anybodies got one let me know!
 

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"El Whatever"
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FM said:
Speaking of which, I haven't yet found a 450 spring.... if anybodies got one let me know!
Must surely you have tried it, but what the heck... Have you tried Fox?
Progressive should be another source as the 5th's use crazy low spring rates and they fit the DHX series and similar.

I had one in that weight. 450 X 2.00 (or was it 2.25??)... I sold it away with the Warp. I can ask the new owner if he still has it as he got the 600 installed instead of the 450 I was using.

It was for a Vanilla, though... Does it fits?
 

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Warp said:
Sorry, bro... Not to dismiss your opinion, but IMHO a coil over with a Ti Spring is like going to your Pizza Hut, asking the biggest size for yourself only and then ask Diet-Coke for beverage.

If you want light.. go full monty and ask Air. If you want coils, save the 200 and plus bucks and get a steel one.

Those 200 may go better in a lighter (or better) set of wheels, a lighter set of tyres, etc.

A shock spring is not a place where the weight savings are significant.

As I said, I respect your opinion and not trying to diss you... but If you're not racing, those 200 would be better spent somewhere else.
No worries. You-de-man, Warp :thumbsup: Let me be totally clear in that I've never even tried a coil over rear shock. It's not my opinion as much as me just trying to milk some useful information from you guys;) The RP3s have been a little uninspiring to me, so I am excited about experimenting, and you guys have been awesome with some of the options you've posted, it's just a matter of deciding which one!
 

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FM said:
The good news is, I did like it a lot! It's got some quirks... here are my observations:
  • TST rocks! Every bit as cool as I hoped it would be. The most "+" setting is basically lock-out. The plushest "-" setting was really too plush- more on that in a moment. The three settings in between were perfect for climbing, flat and DH trails.
  • I thought it was interesting that the same spring I took off the DHX felt WAY softer on the roco, when using the "-" setting. I might go up 50lbs (to 500lbs- I weigh 175) to see if this makes the most "-" setting usable. Otherwise it's really just too soft. :) this is compared to the DHX set up as plush as I could get it.
  • Like my other roco, the range of rebound adjustment is fairly narrow and fast. Somewhat opposite of my PUSH'd RP3, where the fastest setting feels too slow. I started to get the rebound tuned in towards the end of the ride and found that 4-6 clicks from full-slow felt just about right. But the slowest setting is not super slow. I would say the extreme settings are usable, unlike fox shocks where the slowest rebound setting is nearly lock-down. Seems really weird at first but I think it's just a different approach. I wish there were a few slower click settings, just for peace of mind.
  • The TST lever is easy to reach down and flip, even with winter gloves on. It has stops at the extremes, so you can't really throw it into no-mans land like you can with an RP3. The detents are fairly vage but the shock works prefectly between indexed settings.
  • I didn't really get a feel for if the TST settings affect rebound- this is something I'm curious to play with. I was using the plushest two settings when adjusting rebound so perhaps that's why the adjustment range was fast? Not sure, I'll be checking into this further.

So overall, I am digging it! The TST feature is eactly what I wanted out of a rear shock, with the plushness of coil. I like the feel of the roco's rebound better than my push'd RP3, but not as much as the DHX coil. However, the DHX coil doesn't offer anything like TST, which I really like for our climb&drop style rides.
FM
Do you feel the TST-R version would be a good fit for your Highline? In other words, if you didn't have the Roco WC already, which shock would you put on the highline?
 

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Discussion Starter · #59 ·
geolover said:
FM
Do you feel the TST-R version would be a good fit for your Highline? In other words, if you didn't have the Roco WC already, which shock would you put on the highline?
Thats a tough question since I still have limited time on both shocks due to the weather, but I would totally lean towards the TST-R!

Part of the reason is, all my favorite FR rides require some climbing (i.e. Mt. Fromme, Galby, and other spots that shall not be mentioned). The Roco RC climbs well, but the TST-R is about the best climbing shock ever imho... not light, but the ability to lock-out or use the "+ AM" setting (which is like %80 lock-out) is ideal for fire-road or double-track climbs. As far as I can tell, the shocks feel identical in the plusher settings, the only difference being that the WC/RC allow you to really fine-tune the compression damping, where as the TST gives you sort of "pre-sets". If you are doing tons of whistler days, then the WC/RC might be a better bet.

Just a few more quick updates-
  • I found a killer thread on ridemonkey about the home roco rebuild. Apparently all you need is a phillips head screw driver, oil, and a shock pump. Let the air out, remove spring, drain oil, re-fill & cycle till full, add air. Lost of guys doing it at home.
  • Turns out the rebound adjusters are sticky when new, there is a screw on the backside that you can use to break the adjuster in so you have access to the full range of adjustment. After doing this on my RC, the slowest rebound setting is pretty much full lock-down.
  • According to 'Zocchi, the TST guts can be retro-fitted into RC & WC models. No word yet on pricing / availability.
  • Rumour has it that Push will be offerering their services for the rocos this year.
 
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