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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi folks,

Im in the market for a budget fat bike to ride around town and XC for fun, im in california , there is no snow if thats a concern.

so i just wanted to get some feedback about 135mm rear spacing vs 170mm. since im new never owned a fatbike. i dont know wheather which one is better. either spacing ill be replacing the hub with hope hubs. and just wanted to see how hard is it to calculate out, lace and tension. never done it for a fat bike.

my budget is $1200-1500, both bikes have really crappy parts on it. i want to keep the frame and rims basically everything else upgraded. hope brakes, hope hubs. decent cranks. hopefully have a fat bike around 30lbs.

here is the Gravity bullseye monster for $499

Bicycle tire Bicycle wheel Wheel Bicycle frame Bicycle fork


this is the Moto Fantom FB4 comp for $695

Bicycle tire Bicycle wheel Wheel Bicycle frame Bicycle fork
 

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135 cheaper, 170 less options and more expensive.

Sorry but I just don't see the point of getting a fat bike for XC on hard dirt or around town. But whatever floats your boat... they are just bikes after all... trends tend to make people who don't "need" something "want" it. Fat tires are meant for soft conditions. Otherwise they are bulky and slower than a "normal" mountain bike.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
So according to your theory, every fatbike owner all "need" to have one to ride in snow, mud or loose dirt. they dont ride it for anything else. to me biking is just something to be fun, not trying to compete to go fast. sorry i dont think there is a trend yet for fat bikes. honestly i dont think there ever will be one trend like fixies. i want a fat bike for years, but price were very steep untill recent year.
 

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So according to your theory, every fatbike owner all "need" to have one to ride in snow, mud or loose dirt.
I'm purely saying that is what they are "meant" for. I just think it's the cool thing now so everyone wants one... then followed up by a bunch of threads with people complaining about self steer, tire prices, they are slow, these things are dumb and so are all of you, etc. etc.

If you want one for fun then get one. Just giving my perspective in this forum about fat bikes.

Also, there's seriously like a bajillion pages on the 2 bikes you posted about already... ask in one of the threads about those bikes and you will get lots of answers, or I'm sure the info is there for you to make a decision.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
i apologize if i came out rude or strong. i understand what im getting into. my 04 SC v10 is super heavy and running 3.0 tire in the front 2.7 rear. i cant say i know for sure what im getting into here, but i have a rough idea. about what you said about complaining, apparently i dont come here enough now, dont know actually people complaint and call names here, i used to post here years ago when i didnt know much about bikes, people were really nice. it was truely like " no questions are dumb".


i really liket he Fantom even its more expensive. but the rear wheel with offset looks scary. im not used to the idea of spokes are not in the center of the rim. i dont if that could be an issue.
 

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I would simply go for a better bike based on what your asking.
IMHO nothing wrong with either hub size from a riding stand point.
I think you could find upgrades for either size pretty easy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
do you have any recommendations?


ive build quiet a few bikes, i know the game too well. the thing with a better bike is, its going to be hundreds dollars more for a name brand frame, sure the componets are slightly better, but its still so so. unless its something like the new salsa carbon beargrease, im certainly not going to drop that kinda money on a bike now. im dont want the newest and the most expensive components, just fairly good parts . dont get me wrong, i think i get your point. but to me a frame is a frame. its welded heat treated. as long as the material is within spec and welder is experienced, i dont see how one production frame is different from another. so i think a bike direct fat bike with good upgrades for $1200, is still better than a same value used surly or salsa. this is just my point of view.
 

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I would think that based on your experience of building bikes, you would know what you do/don't want?

The only differences in frames currently on the market are ones from manufacturers who did the research to nail down geometry, and the others who have ridden the coattails of those manufacturers, and are now undercutting their prices because they don't have to cover R&D prices.

So if a frame is a frame is a frame, then buy whatever is the cheapest and hang whatever you want on it. Problem solved.
 

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Another cheaper bike you may want to look into is the Framed Minnesota 2.0 or 1.0. A stock one was used during one of the Red Bull crushed ice events. Granted the tires were studded.

Looking for a sub 1500 complete bike, my money is on an On-One Fatty. Some places are selling the Charge Cooker Maxi for just over 1000 if you look hard enough.
 

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Hi folks,

Im in the market for a budget fat bike to ride around town and XC for fun, im in california , there is no snow if thats a concern.

so i just wanted to get some feedback about 135mm rear spacing vs 170mm. since im new never owned a fatbike. i dont know wheather which one is better. either spacing ill be replacing the hub with hope hubs. and just wanted to see how hard is it to calculate out, lace and tension. never done it for a fat bike.

my budget is $1200-1500, both bikes have really crappy parts on it. i want to keep the frame and rims basically everything else upgraded. hope brakes, hope hubs. decent cranks. hopefully have a fat bike around 30lbs.

here is the Gravity bullseye monster for $499

View attachment 878965

this is the Moto Fantom FB4 comp for $695

View attachment 878966
Since I just finished what your thinking of starting, here is my $.02
I built a set of wheels for the mrs. new comp using hope fatsno front and evo rear hubs, origin 8 (weinman single wall 80's pre drilled, $50 on amazon) and 160mm revos front, comps rear. The rear was my first attempt at an offset build and came out surprisingly symmetrical tension wise, more so than the front, so don't let that scare you away.
I ended up replacing the oem shimano stuff with sram x.9. rear shifter, a shorty type 2 and a raceface N/W 32T chain ring.
The finished bike is pretty sweet, and would not hesitate recommending it to you.
Having said all that, I am waiting on a Boris, and see BD is talking about a frame set with fork for $199, since you plan to replace everything but those pieces, that would be IMHO the no brainer choice.
As for the framed and gravity bikes, I really did not want to deal with a cartridge vs. outboard cup style BB.
Let me know if you have any more questions.
Shred on phatty
 

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I love my FB4 Elite. That said, I'm buying my lady the Gavity Bullseye (3") because I know she won't take it as seriously as me, therefore won't be put off by the lower component spec, and she'll do better on a 3" tire anyway.

Buy what you can afford. BD said they'll be selling Boris frame/forks for $200. If you're going to upgrade practically everything, perhaps that is a better avenue to take.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I would think that based on your experience of building bikes, you would know what you do/don't want?

The only differences in frames currently on the market are ones from manufacturers who did the research to nail down geometry, and the others who have ridden the coattails of those manufacturers, and are now undercutting their prices because they don't have to cover R&D prices.

So if a frame is a frame is a frame, then buy whatever is the cheapest and hang whatever you want on it. Problem solved.
exactly what you said, i know what i want. but i didnt know about the 135mm/170mm, so i had to ask here.
seems like 135mm is the way to go. i like the moto Fantom frame better im just seeing if i can get one at the cheapest and just hang parts on it. and itd be black. now they only have a expensive version in black. im just not sure yet.

Since I just finished what your thinking of starting, here is my $.02
I built a set of wheels for the mrs. new comp using hope fatsno front and evo rear hubs, origin 8 (weinman single wall 80's pre drilled, $50 on amazon) and 160mm revos front, comps rear. The rear was my first attempt at an offset build and came out surprisingly symmetrical tension wise, more so than the front, so don't let that scare you away.
I ended up replacing the oem shimano stuff with sram x.9. rear shifter, a shorty type 2 and a raceface N/W 32T chain ring.
The finished bike is pretty sweet, and would not hesitate recommending it to you.
Having said all that, I am waiting on a Boris, and see BD is talking about a frame set with fork for $199, since you plan to replace everything but those pieces, that would be IMHO the no brainer choice.
As for the framed and gravity bikes, I really did not want to deal with a cartridge vs. outboard cup style BB.
Let me know if you have any more questions.
Shred on phatty
looks like what i have in mind is very similar to what you have built. im just waiting on a black moto fantom frame or whole bike at cheap price. im a big fan of hope parts, after all these years dealing with different parts. hope hubs and brakes are the best to work on, and most reliable too. i now have a hadley rear hub on my v10, its solid , swaping bearings is more complicated then hope.

I love my FB4 Elite. That said, I'm buying my lady the Gavity Bullseye (3") because I know she won't take it as seriously as me, therefore won't be put off by the lower component spec, and she'll do better on a 3" tire anyway.

Buy what you can afford. BD said they'll be selling Boris frame/forks for $200. If you're going to upgrade practically everything, perhaps that is a better avenue to take.
thanks for the headsup , im really not a big fan of how the boris frame flows, im more like a triangular sharp frame type of guy, old school.

Another chapter bike you may want to look into is the Framed Minnesota 2.0 or 1.0. A stock one was used during one of the Red Bull crushed ice events. Granted the tires were studded.

Looking for a sub 1500 complete bike, my money is on an On-One Fatty. Some places at selling the Charge Cooker Maxi for just over 1000 if you look hard enough.
i do like the cooker maxi. its just it looks way too similar to the gravity bullseye. not that i dont want to support original frames, its just im on a budget and still want good parts, if i shell out 1200 on a used on-one or cooker maxi with a bunch of parts i dont want, ill end up spending another 7-800 on upgrades too. im not feeling the framed minnesota cuz it down tube curves at the headtube, and on-one has that tube reinforce top tube and seat tube i dont like that either.
 

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I just don't see the point of buying a Walmart goose or what ever it's called and other cheap mass produced fat bikes flooding the market .. and then spend a ton on upgrades when it would be wiser to save and wait to invest in a better bike.

I would even venture to guess that (((maybe))) a bunch of mid class but good used fat bikes will go on sale as guys will want to up grade to lighter newer models coming out. Check the Fat Bike Trader on Facebook .. https://www.facebook.com/groups/fatbiketrader/
 

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exactly what you said, i know what i want. but i didnt know about the 135mm/170mm, so i had to ask here.
seems like 135mm is the way to go. i like the moto Fantom frame better im just seeing if i can get one at the cheapest and just hang parts on it. and itd be black. now they only have a expensive version in black. im just not sure yet.

looks like what i have in mind is very similar to what you have built. im just waiting on a black moto fantom frame or whole bike at cheap price. im a big fan of hope parts, after all these years dealing with different parts. hope hubs and brakes are the best to work on, and most reliable too. i now have a hadley rear hub on my v10, its solid , swaping bearings is more complicated then hope.

thanks for the headsup , im really not a big fan of how the boris frame flows, im more like a triangular sharp frame type of guy, old school.

i do like the cooker maxi. its just it looks way too similar to the gravity bullseye. not that i dont want to support original frames, its just im on a budget and still want good parts, if i shell out 1200 on a used on-one or cooker maxi with a bunch of parts i dont want, ill end up spending another 7-800 on upgrades too. im not feeling the framed minnesota cuz it down tube curves at the headtube, and on-one has that tube reinforce top tube and seat tube i dont like that either.
I could have picked between the Cooker or the Surly Pugsley when I decided to buy through REI. The Cooker was about $150 less, but I was hearing from guys on this forum that they had to upgrade on the brakes and the VEE tires were crappy. Doing those upgrades took me way over what I was paying for the Pugsley so it was a no-brainer. Besides the Pugsley has all of the extra braze ons for racks, extra bottle cages.

Just something to keep in mind between the two bike models.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
like i said in the previous post, a frame is a frame. i get what you said. but we all have our ways of living. this is not like a louis vuitton vs knock off different quality . its a bicycle frame. its welded with alloy tubes. if the mongoose is alloy i would buy it if i like it. sounds like you kinda dont like the idea of mass production. sure it hurt smaller brands. but it is what it is. after seeing how bad the weld on banshee and Karpiel bike, i think im gonna stick with a mass production frame. at lease i know the welder is more experienced, wont make uneven, crooked beads would lead to a cracked frame.

im set on buying either bike from bikedirect, leaning toward to Fanton Fb4. i dont see anything wrong with either bike/frame, they have good feedbacks
 

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like i said in the previous post, a frame is a frame. i get what you said. but we all have our ways of living. this is not like a louis vuitton vs knock off different quality . its a bicycle frame. its welded with alloy tubes. if the mongoose is alloy i would buy it if i like it. sounds like you kinda dont like the idea of mass production. sure it hurt smaller brands. but it is what it is. after seeing how bad the weld on banshee and Karpiel bike, i think im gonna stick with a mass production frame. at lease i know the welder is more experienced, wont make uneven, crooked beads would lead to a cracked frame.

im set on buying either bike from bikedirect, leaning toward to Fanton Fb4. i dont see anything wrong with either bike/frame, they have good feedbacks
Not so .. Surly Pugsley is mass produced, So is Trek .. but it has more to do with the QC and which one has higher specs.

Good luck with your choice and enjoy.
 

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im set on buying either bike from bikedirect, leaning toward to Fanton Fb4. i dont see anything wrong with either bike/frame, they have good feedbacks
Building from a frame/fork can usally be fun if that's your original intent. If your intent is to simply save money, I think BD and some creative part swapping (buying AND selling take-offs) can give you the bike you want for the right price.

My Elite got a new cassette, tires, rear derailleur, grips. I'm pretty cost conscious and seek out good deals by having Jenson do price matches, and buying very lightly used tires. All told I have about $1200 in it and I'm happy.
Another thing that will get you the most value with a BD bike is completely disassembling it, checking how everything is torqued and lubed, and building it back yourself. We'll see how the crank does, it will get disassembled and checked out very soon as I am approaching 200 miles on this bike. The brakes, fd, and shifters are fantastic. It's got some strong points. The wheels roll fast.

The frame, fork and component spec are the same as the Diamant / Nakamura bikes that sold for far more. Remember with BD, you aren't necessarily paying less for less bike, you're paying less because you're buying it direct. This is especially good with fat bikes because it's a slippery slope the moment you discover that the tires mean everything and you WILL want multiple sets because you WILL want to ride this thing EVERYWHERE.
 

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Another thing to consider is rim width.
There are far more affordable wheelsets out there for the 135/170 combo than there are for 135mm offset. The Gravity's 50mm is attractive to me.
I'm already looking to shell out for a smaller front wheel, and the Gravity's 50mm probably has a bit more versatility. Plus you get a cromoly fork on the Gravity.
 

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i do like the cooker maxi. its just it looks way too similar to the gravity bullseye. not that i dont want to support original frames,
Looking closely at high res photos of both frames there are some key differences in mounting points, stays, dropouts, etc., and the fork is completely different.

im not feeling the framed minnesota cuz it down tube curves at the headtube, and on-one has that tube reinforce top tube and seat tube i dont like that either.
I also looked hard at the Minnesota 2.0. The mechanic disc brakes, quando hubs, and chainwheel sizes all turned me off immediately.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
i thought surlies are like hand made in US. thanks for your input , kris7047th.



hey adam jay, i do like working on stuffs, from house, cars to bicycles. you said something i can relate to, i currently import bike parts from overseas and resell them online and locally, im in the process of opening a bike shop here in norcal. in a long run id like to launch my own brand for bike components. so i know how cheaply bike stuffs can be made to order or bought at a quantity from overseas. in fact, from reading some price lists posted here. quiet few of the BB7 brakes fatbike forum member bought are from my 2 ebay stores. getting parts at good prices is not an issue for me. so its just i need a good platform to start with.

i just emailed BD to ask about future availabilities on black color fantom Fb4 comp or even a frame, hopfully hear back from them soon.
 
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