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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Has anyone else noticed this? I love the precise handling of my HH 100x with four inches of travel but went with a TALAS so I could increase the travel a bit for nastier descents and steeper drops etc. After some experimentation with different travel settings while at Tahoe last week I settled on 95-98mm for climbing and 98-101mm for most descents. With rocky drops and steps ala Toads it seemed like longer travel settings (105-110) just made the front end move up and down more and be more likely to stall forward progress making the bike more endo prone. Is this normally the case or do I have some set up issues to work through? More or less rebound etc.

If it is, then in theory the best bike for slow, technical, rocky moves would be a fully rigid bike ala Alex at Spring Fling, right? You know exactly where the front wheel is and the steering is very precise. Or do I just have to adapt my riding style for the longer suspension?

I do like the the more stable feel of longer travel on fast, kinda rough descents, but if it's very curvy at all I still prefer the sharper handling of the 100 setting (71.5 deg head angle).

So, yes, I like the adjustablility of the TALAS, but I don't adjust it over a very wide range.
 

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Do It Yourself
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2 clicks hardly seems worth the effort. I ran my Vanilla at 125mm for a while. I didn't think it was too bad. It was more work to keep on top of for climbing and corners but seemed managable for me. With the Minute, I am running it about 105mm most of the time. I think the Minute with SPV is a bit better in terms of bob, wallow and dive than the TALAS though.

BTW, the HH hta is listed at 71 with a 100mm fork.
 

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noMAD man
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Maybe more a technique issue?

KRob said:
Has anyone else noticed this? I love the precise handling of my HH 100x with four inches of travel but went with a TALAS so I could increase the travel a bit for nastier descents and steeper drops etc. After some experimentation with different travel settings while at Tahoe last week I settled on 95-98mm for climbing and 98-101mm for most descents. With rocky drops and steps ala Toads it seemed like longer travel settings (105-110) just made the front end move up and down more and be more likely to stall forward progress making the bike more endo prone. Is this normally the case or do I have some set up issues to work through? More or less rebound etc.

If it is, then in theory the best bike for slow, technical, rocky moves would be a fully rigid bike ala Alex at Spring Fling, right? You know exactly where the front wheel is and the steering is very precise. Or do I just have to adapt my riding style for the longer suspension?

I do like the the more stable feel of longer travel on fast, kinda rough descents, but if it's very curvy at all I still prefer the sharper handling of the 100 setting (71.5 deg head angle).

So, yes, I like the adjustablility of the TALAS, but I don't adjust it over a very wide range.
Unless the bike and suspension are set up wrong, I think what you are describing is working your technique into the type of bike and suspension you have. You are correct that if you go really slow in technical terrain, you can definitely have a soft, long suspension fork eat up all its travel against a rock or ledge, which brings your head angle to a ridiculously steep angle, and then...endo. It sometimes goes against the warning system in the brain, but the more speed and forward momentum you can maintain in these conditions, that long travel suspension comes into its own. Another practice is too keep the bike's gearing "loaded" in this type of terrain. All I mean by this is that you keep the bike in a gear where you can quickly stroke the cranks to drive the bike through or out of rocks and ledges. Just letting the bike roll through technical sections will often allow stalling against rocks and ledges much more easily. Finally, and you already touched on it, the rebound setting is a balancing act between too much and too little. In really slow technical terrain you usually want slower rebound, but the faster you go you need faster rebound. Barring constantly stopping and changing your external rebound adjuster, which is silly, you settle on a happy medium that works for your bike, terrain, and personal preference. Of course your positioning on the bike affects the endoing effect you describe. Getting back on the rear of the bike is obviously going to help, and your saddle type and position and stem and bar sizes will also be a factor. I'm not suggesting you have no technique or that your bike setup is all wrong--just throwing out some of the vairables that touch on the issue you mention.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Homebrew said:
2 clicks hardly seems worth the effort.
Ok, so maybe I go from 90 to 110 at the extremes but generally I keep it between 95-105.

Homebrew said:
BTW, the HH hta is listed at 71 with a 100mm fork.
You are correct sir. My bad.
 

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Cheesiest
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That brings up an issue...

I've been thinking (I need something to do at work) about how much travel is really worth having on a hardtail. It just seems that there would be a point at which too much travel is just a waste. Lots of travel is fun when bombing downhill, but with the hardtail the rear end ends up bouncing all over the place. It's nice for one big hit, but I'm not sure for smaller more random hits. I may just have to have a 5" squishy and a hardtail.

I bring this up, because I've been debating whether or not to get an adjustable travel fork, or just keep my 'zoke.

Maybe, I should stop thinking and just ride more.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
TNC said:
Unless the bike and suspension are set up wrong, I think what you are describing is working your technique into the type of bike and suspension you have. You are correct that if you go really slow in technical terrain, you can definitely have a soft, long suspension fork eat up all its travel against a rock or ledge, which brings your head angle to a ridiculously steep angle, and then...endo. It sometimes goes against the warning system in the brain, but the more speed and forward momentum you can maintain in these conditions, that long travel suspension comes into its own. Another practice is too keep the bike's gearing "loaded" in this type of terrain. All I mean by this is that you keep the bike in a gear where you can quickly stroke the cranks to drive the bike through or out of rocks and ledges. Just letting the bike roll through technical sections will often allow stalling against rocks and ledges much more easily. Finally, and you already touched on it, the rebound setting is a balancing act between too much and too little. In really slow technical terrain you usually want slower rebound, but the faster you go you need faster rebound. I'm not suggesting you have no technique or that your bike setup is all wrong--just throwing out some of the vairables that touch on the issue you mention.
Nice explaination. This makes a lot of sense to me. Thanks. I think you're right about it being at least partially a technique issue. I do seem to take rocky, techy, drops slow (probably too slow) which probably increases this sensation I'm noticing. A little more momentum and drive train "loading" sounds like it would help. Now if I could just get the warning system in my brain to let off the brakes and let it flow a little more. Perhaps if I had the full body armor and a full face helmet, or better yet, one of those inflate-on-impact sumo suits I could muster the courage I lack. :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
Dougal said:
Have you got low speed compression adjustment?

If so then cranking that up will help a bit.
It's a TALAS RLC, so yes, I guess the compression adjustment is for controlling slow speed compression, but everyone says that turning the compression knob doesn't change things much so I haven't played with it much. I'll see what it does in that situation. I do like the rebound damping slow (2-3 clicks out from full tight) with this type of obstacle as TNC suggested.
 

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It also sounds like you need to be running a larger rear tire. You should get a large volume rear tire (geax blade 2.25 or 2.5 and larger of any other tire) and run it at 20 psi. You wont be complaining about your rear end hard tail jumping around anymore. In fact it will feel like several inches of rear suspension.
 

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I run a 2.4 Moto on the rear. It helps, but when it is really nasty I get kind of worked. I think I just need to ride more. A steel frame might help.
 
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